The Spirit is received by the hearing of faith, it is quite simple.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
At what point are sins removed?
- Thread starter Cnkw3
- Start date
The Spirit is received by the hearing of faith, it is quite simple.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Jesus was baptized in water, and we believe He fulfilled all righteousness in that humbling act, and it is the same for us.
But at the same time, we receive the Spirit by belief in what Christ did, and not in what we do, faith is not by any works of any law, but by belief in Jesus Christ only.
That is why water baptism wont help anyone to be saved, as it is for those who believe and then are baptized, in that order of course.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Walpole
Member
Another dodge.
Jesus' last instructions are to teach and baptize. He then gives the proper form: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Again ---> Can you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water?
If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and I would therefore be considered baptized?
Nobody is dry, out of the belly of the Lord Jesus comes forth rivers of living waters.
You can keep calling answers a dodge, but you are answered.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 22:And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Water baptism saves nobody, what saves us is belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. That is the LIVELY HOPE, LIVING WATERS.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
ALL THE WICKED SPIRITS ON THIS FORUM ARE REBUKED.
Walpole and Cnkw3 here is my explanation to both of you.
None of those scriptures you posted had the word water in them. I am talking about being Baptized into Christ for the receiving of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with full immersion in water, but only done as an outward appearance to others that you have already repented and received Jesus as your Lord and Savior after hearing the word preached to you first.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
John’s baptism was for the showing of one who repented of their sins first and then symbolized of actual water that they were made clean again as water can not save us. It was not for the receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry hadn’t started yet and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth as He had to relate to the humanity of man. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.
Acts 8:35-37 we see that the Eunuch first heard the word of God preached to him by Philip. After hearing the word he believed that Jesus is the Son of God and then asked to be baptized in water.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Last edited:
Walpole
Member
Another dodge with a serious of red herrings.
Let me try to just get you to answer this...
If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and I would therefore be considered baptized?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.
Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.
It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.
The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree
KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.
The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).
IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.
1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22
Walpole
Member
Please answer my questions...
Jesus' last instructions are to teach and baptize. He then gives the proper form: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Again ---> Can you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water?
Please answer! ---> If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and would I therefore be considered baptized?
gordon777 no one is dodging your questions as they have been answered, but you ignore them because they come against that of what you believe.
I did answer your question back in post #25 and again explained in post #27. Did you even read them, or just want to argue.
So Jn 3:5 says nothing about water?
What “baptism of Christ” are you referring to?
Also where does the Bible say.....”only the blood” can make us clean. We know we can’t be clean without the blood but where does the Bible say....that’s all we need!
No. Let’s look again
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1 John 5:7-8
The word is Jesus. This is separate from “water” the next verse literally means “water”. Also the “water” in Jn 4 was NOT Jesus but it was something Jesus would give.
The Spirit is actually the “living water” given in Jn 7. So if we read Jn 3:5 this way then it sounds like this...unless one is born of the spirit and the spirit then they can’t enter the kingdom.
That’s great exegesis.
Jn 12 says NOTHING of “living water”. The least you can do is admit that you made that part up and added the phrase living water.
The text literally says....spirit water and blood. You added “word” to it. The text has already mentioned the word in the previous verse. It’s not hard to build a doctrine when you add words to the Bible.
Yes Eph 5 is bible commentary on Jn 3:5.
Water and Spirit?
Water and word?
Does the Bible literally connect Spirit to the word?
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:63
Also, what is the sword of the spirit? The word of God.
Eph 5 is in perfect harmony. How do we know what the plan of salvation is? Through the word the spirit gave us. When is a person “sanctified”? When there sins are washed away in water baptism. Born of water and Spirt. It’s all in perfect harmony.
When are a persons sins removed? This would be regeneration correct? It’s when a person is raised out of the waters of baptism. Rom 6:2-4. Show me where the spirit ever removes sins.
Walpole
Member
No, you didn't. My questions are simple yes or no answers and you provided neither. Instead, you lobbed a series of non-sequiturs. I'll give you another shot at them...
Jesus' last instructions are to teach and baptize. He then gives the proper form: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Question #1 ---> Can you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water?
a. Yes
b. No
Question #2 ---> If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and would I therefore be considered baptized?
a. Yes
b. No
So every single one of those examples i listed is spirit baptism? This is your position?
Even though in Acts 10 Peter specifically commanded water baptism? I guess Peter commanded spirit baptism in acts 2? Even though it literally says that the Eunuch went down into the water.
In acts 18 it says the Corinthians were baptized.
So this was spirit baptism? Correct? Even though in the first chapter of the book Paul said he was the one that baptized some of them.
In acts 19 the Ephesians were baptized with the spirit? This is your position ? Then Paul laid hands on them so they would receive the Spirit? What’s that all about? Please explain.
I already showed you all of this in scripture. I can't make you see it as that is up to you to understand it all.
Read my post as I already gave you the answers, It's up to you to study the scriptures that speak about being baptized into Christ.
Walpole
Member
I have read your posts multiple times and they do not answer my questions. I will take your continued refusal to answer two simple questions as your de facto concession that your understanding of baptism, done sans water, is a completely alien concept to Christianity and hence you cannot offer one example of a baptism performed in such a manner.
I have already explained all of this to you and Mungo as I gave the both of you all those scriptures to go study, which neither one of you have done.
There is nothing wrong with full immersion in water as it, like John's baptism was an outward appearance to others that you repented of your sins, but it wasn't for receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as neither one of them had come yet until Jesus came to John to be baptized in which I already gave you why Jesus had to do that.
I've given all I can to this, but I can not make you understand it if you are not willing to study for yourselves.
Whatever as I have given all I can. Go read and study the scriptures I gave, not for what I say, but for that which is already written. I'm done.
Walpole
Member
If you change your mind and decide to answer my two simple questions, please reach out to me. I am genuinely curious how your idea of baptism - sans water - is performed and how one would even know they received it.