Baptisims

[JLB]

The term "Spirit of grace" is used also in Heb 10:29. The Spirit is referred to by this term for the Spirit is the giver of grace not that the Spirit Himself is given to each and all men. But the grace that the Spirit gives has been extended to all men Titus 2:10)

Grace is the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Zech 12:10 is not about Joel's prophecy of God's Spirit being poured out upon every single person who ever lived.

Zechariah shows us the Holy Spirit being poured out even at the time of His coming. That’s the point.


IOW THE LAST DAYS.

 

[Tradidi]

Not one scripture, but multiple scriptures teach baptism with the Spirit ....

• [Mat 3:11 NASB] 11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
• [Luk 3:16 NASB] 16 John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
• [Jhn 1:33 NASB] 33 "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
• [Act 11:16 NASB] 16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

These Scriptures refer to God being the one who will baptise (John 14:16, John 14:26, John 16:7). It was fulfilled at Pentecost with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles (Acts 2).

Do you see any Scriptures that talk about men baptising, or being baptised with the Holy Spirit, other than the Apostles at Pentecost?

Also, are you saying then that the Apostles were not yet born again until at Pentecost? Or were they only half born again, the first half with water baptism, the second half many years later with Spirit baptism?

• [Act 10:47 NASB] 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [did,] can he?"

Thus we have ONE BAPTISM [Eph 4:5] of both WATER and SPIRIT ... For “unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

Are you saying that these men (in Acts 10:47) were first baptised by/with the Holy Spirit, and then they received water baptism as well? If so, then how many baptisms did they receive? Or did they receive the same baptism twice?

 

[JLB]

Are you saying that these men (in Acts 10:47) were first baptised by/with the Holy Spirit, and then they received water baptism as well? If so, then how many baptisms did they receive? Or did they receive the same baptism twice?

There are three distinct baptisms in scripture, with three distinct and different baptizers.


Would you care to discuss this?



JLB

 

[Tradidi]

There are three distinct baptisms in scripture, with three distinct and different baptizers.

Would you care to discuss this?

I would certainly like to discuss, but first I was hoping to get atpollard to clarify his opinion and previous statements.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Grace is the Holy Spirit.

I find no verse that says this.
Titus 2:11 all men do not have the Spirit.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There are three distinct baptisms in scripture, with three distinct and different baptizers.


Would you care to discuss this?



JLB

How do you get three when by the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistles and wrote "one baptism"?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Zechariah shows us the Holy Spirit being poured out even at the time of His coming. That’s the point.


IOW THE LAST DAYS.

The last days began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and the last gospel dispensation will last till Christ returns and eternity begins. And it was in these last days the Lord poured out of the Spirit upon Jews (Apostles) in Acts 2 and Gentiles (Acts 10) which made up all flesh. Therefore the Lord fulfilled Joel's prophecy. If Joel's prophecy has not been fulfilled, then the man called Jesus was not the Christ and every jot and tittle of the OT is still in effect today Mt 5:17-18; Luke 16:16-17

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Jew and Gentile encompasses all.

All who believe and there obey.

all flesh does not mean each and every person. Even animals have flesh so does the Lord pour out od His spirit upon animals?

 

[JLB]

The last days began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and the last gospel dispensation

The last days began at Pentecost and ends on the last day, when He returns to resurrect His people on the last day.



JLB

 

[JLB]

How do you get three when by the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistles and wrote "one baptism"?

Acts 19 occured after the book Ephesians was written.


Again I ask you, is there one God or three Gods?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I find no verse that says this.
Titus 2:11 all men do not have the Spirit.

Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29

All men do not have the Spirit.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The last days began at Pentecost and ends on the last day, when He returns to resurrect His people on the last day.



JLB

Last days from Pentecost in Acts 2 to when Christ returns and there will be a general resurrection of all people (Jn 5:28-29), a judgment (Heb 9:27) earth melts away (2 Pet 3:10) and eternity begins.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29

All men do not have the Spirit.

Because Joel's prophecy was not inclusive of each and every man. But "all flesh" referenced mankind that was made up of Jew and Gentile.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Acts 19 occured after the book Ephesians was written.


Again I ask you, is there one God or three Gods?


JLB

By the time Paul penned his Ephesian epistle there was one baptism in effect. One =one
One baptism, one God, one Lord not many baptisms in effect no more than many Gods or many Christs.

Acts 19 there were some at Ephesus that had been baptized with John's baptism (Act 19:3) but John's baptism had already expired and was invalid for it was replaced by Christ's baptism at Pentecost Acts 2. They having been baptized with an invalid, expired baptism is the reason they had to be baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 19:5) which is Christ's baptism of the great commission "in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 2:38).

John's baptism was for the remission of sins (Mk 1:4). If John's baptism were still valid then those Ephesian's sins would have been remitted. Why would they need to be baptized a second time and have sins remitted with Christ's baptism (Acts 2:38) if their sins had already remitted with John's baptism?

 

[JLB]

Because Joel's prophecy was not inclusive of each and every man. But "all flesh" referenced mankind that was made up of Jew and Gentile.

What other kind of people is there besides either Jew or Gentile?


There are Jews, then there is everyone else.



JLB

 

[Butch5]

I would submit that the Holy Spirit doesn't baptize. The passage should read differently.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:13 KJV)

The word translated "by" in this verse is the Greek word "en", it should be translated "in". It should read, for in one spirit are we all baptized into one body. Several translations have, "in one spirit".

 

[JLB]

I would submit that the Holy Spirit doesn't baptize. The passage should read differently.

I would submit that you stop dictating what the scriptures say, and simply believe them rather than changing them to fit your denominational slant.



JLB

 

[Butch5]

I would submit that you stop dictating what the scriptures say, and simply believe them rather than changing them to fit your denominational slant.



JLB

A little research will show it's fact.

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:13 ASV)

For ain one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- bJews or Greeks, slaves1 or free-- and call were made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:13 ESV)

for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink, (1 Cor. 12:13 YLT)

The denominational slant is those translators making the Holy Spirit are baptizer when the Scriptures don't.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What other kind of people is there besides either Jew or Gentile?


There are Jews, then there is everyone else.



JLB

At the time of Joel they saw mankind as two groups; Jew and non-Jew (Gentile)