Baptisims

[Butch5]

So your saying Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit before He was baptized in water?

Is that your testimony?



JLB

Obviously He didn't. If He had then the Spirit wouldn't have descended on Him, it would have already been on Him.

 

[Butch5]

If you will read the scripture you will see that laying on of hands from the Apostles is mainly how the Holy Spirit was received.

It’s a reference to the baptism with the Spirit.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

They received the gifts through the laying on of hands.

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Acts 8:17-20 KJV)

If this is receiving the Holy Spirit then no one today can receive the Spirit as the Apostles are all gone. However, if this is receiving the gifts then it makes sense that people today could receive the Spirit.

However, I'm not sure what this has to do with being baptized into Christ.

 

[JLB]

Obviously He didn't. If He had then the Spirit wouldn't have descended on Him, it would have already been on Him.

So you believe that if the Spirit doesn’t decend upon a person then they don’t have the Holy Spirit?

 

[JLB]

They received the gifts through the laying on of hands.

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. (Acts 8:17-20 KJV)

If this is receiving the Holy Spirit then no one today can receive the Spirit as the Apostles are all gone. However, if this is receiving the gifts then it makes sense that people today could receive the Spirit.

However, I'm not sure what this has to do with being baptized into Christ.

I can see you don’t understand which is why you need to read the scriptures that pertain to this subject.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:14-19


Receiving the Holy Spirit is what the scriptures are teaching us.

Receiving the Holy Spirit.

• when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

• And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given,

• Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

The context is about receiving the Holy Spirit.


Baptism in water is not how the Holy Spirit is given and received.




JLB

 

[Butch5]

So you believe that if the Spirit doesn’t decend upon a person then they don’t have the Holy Spirit?

Is a person born with the Holy Spirit?

 

[JLB]

Obviously He didn't. If He had then the Spirit wouldn't have descended on Him, it would have already been on Him.

Blasphemy.

 

[JLB]

Is a person born with the Holy Spirit?

And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. Luke 1:15




JLB

 

[Butch5]

I can see you don’t understand which is why you need to read the scriptures that pertain to this subject.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:14-19


Receiving the Holy Spirit is what the scriptures are teaching us.

Receiving the Holy Spirit.

• when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

• And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given,

• Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.

The context is about receiving the Holy Spirit.


Baptism in water is not how the Holy Spirit is given and received.




JLB

I understand it. There are two different receivings of the Holy Spirit. One is actually receiving the Spirit and one is receiving the power of the Spirit. As I pointed out, Jesus breathed on the Apostles and said, 'receive the Spirit'. That is one receiving the Spirit. However, He also told them to wait in Jerusalem until they received power. That happened at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them with power. They had already received the indwelling of the Spirit prior to Pentecost. So, obviously what happened at Pentecost was something else. It was when they received power. This is what we see in Act 8. When the apostles laid hands on them they received the Holy Spirit. What they received was something that could be seen by others. Just like when the apostles received the Spirit at Pentecost, it could be seen by others.

However, even if this was the indwelling of the Spirit and not the receiving of power, it wouldn't prove your case. God can do whatever He wants to do. If he wanted to give someone the Holy Spirit after baptism He could. What we need to do is see what the Scriptures teach on how one receives the spirit, not try to find exceptions.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38 KJV)

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6 KJV)

Paul laid hands on them and the got the power of the Spirit. This is what we see in Acts 8.

 

[Butch5]

Blasphemy.

Can you back that up with Scripture? Obviously if the Spirit descended onto someone it wasn't there before. If it was it wouldn't be descending.

 

[Butch5]

And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. Luke 1:15




JLB

John the Baptist was. He was also a prophet of God. If everyone was filled with the Spirit from the womb there wouldn't be any point in pointing out that John was filled with the Spirit from the womb. Do you have any Scripture that shows that the wicked or believers are filled at birth?

 

[JLB]

Can you back that up with Scripture? Obviously if the Spirit descended onto someone it wasn't there before. If it was it wouldn't be descending.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Do you understand what that means?


Truly sad.

Saying that Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit is blasphemy.

Trying to prop up your doctrine of man, you have proven you will say anything, even claiming Jesus didn’t have the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

John the Baptist was. He was also a prophet of God. If everyone was filled with the Spirit from the womb there wouldn't be any point in pointing out that John was filled with the Spirit from the womb. Do you have any Scripture that shows that the wicked or believers are filled at birth?

I didnt say everyone was filled with the Spirit from their mothers womb.


My point is Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit within Him before the Spirit came down upon Him like a dove.


His Spirit is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Life.


JLB

 

[Butch5]

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Do you understand what that means?


Truly sad.

Saying that Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit is blasphemy.

Trying to prop up your doctrine of man, you have proven you will say anything, even claiming Jesus didn’t have the Holy Spirit.



JLB

Should I take that as a no, you don't have Scripture to back it up? Yes, Jesus is the Son of God. Paul also told us that being in the form of God, Jesus emptied Himself and became man. When one empties themselves of the form of God, they are no long in the form of God.

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,1
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (Phil. 2:5-7 ESV)

Also, Jesus can't be the Holy Spirit. That would be the Father.

And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born1 will be called the Son of God.
(Lk. 1:35 NKJ)

Jesus can't be His own Father. It was the Holy Spirit, the power of the Highest, that is the Father. He's called the Father because Jesus is His Son. The Holy Spirit is the power of the Highest.

 

[JLB]

Should I take that as a no, you don't have Scripture to back it up?

What?


How can Jesus be God’s only begotten Son and not have the Spirit of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

I gave you scripture, obviously you don’t understand what it means to be a son of God.

Again His Spirit is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the Lord.


For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Colossians 2:9


JLB

 

[JLB]

Also, Jesus can't be the Holy Spirit. That would be the Father.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9


You do understand that Jesus is Lord; YHWH, the creator of heaven and earth?


JLB

 

[Butch5]

What?


How can Jesus be God’s only begotten Son and not have the Spirit of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

I gave you scripture, obviously you don’t understand what it means to be a son of God.

Again His Spirit is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the Lord.


For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Colossians 2:9


JLB

Please explain how Jesus can be the Son of God and be the Holy Spirit. As I posted, th Holy Spirit came upon Mary. If the Holy spirit is Jesus, then Jesus would be His own father. That's not what we find in Scripture. In the Scriputres God is His father.

 

[Butch5]

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9


You do understand that Jesus is Lord; YHWH, the creator of heaven and earth?


JLB

Yes, but He's not the Father.

The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven. And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground

In this passage we see one YHWY on earth and one in Heaven.

 

[JLB]

Please explain how Jesus can be the Son of God and be the Holy Spirit.

I never said Jesus was the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit, are the Spirit of God.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, but He's not the Father.

Jesus is the Son, not the Father.

 

[Butch5]

I never said Jesus was the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit, are the Spirit of God.



JLB

In post 92 you said, "His Spirit is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Life."