Baptism in the Holy Spirit

[faithtransforms]

HI

Tongues can be of men or of angels, and tongues is not gibberish !

!!!

 

[faithtransforms]

Glorydaz, I fear for you. You are accusatory and your interpretation of anyone's post who doesn't agree with you are SO OFF BASE!!! I go to the Word EVERY DAY for my understanding. You're going to attack me for using Strong's? Can you be SERIOUS? Like I have said before, I am no babe in the Word, I know the OT pretty darn well, but I know the NT like the back of my hand. Having read it through at least 10 or more times (probably more than that, at some point you lose count) and some books, especially Paul's epistles, I have probably read 50 or more times AT LEAST!!!

I interpret the Word differently than you do, period. I see the scriptures you have pointed out, and I agree "perfect" generally means mature. But don't you think Paul was pretty mature at the time he wrote that epistle to the Corinthians? No, he had not attained, but he PRAISED GOD that he spoke with tongues more than them all. How can you be so blind? READ the following scriptures!!!

1COR 14
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied : for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret , that the church may receive edifying
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth , but my understanding is unfruitful (he is praying with his SPIRIT while speaking in tongues). It is a prayer language.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Now here Paul is saying, desire spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, he said I would that ye all spake with tongues. He says that prophecy is better than tongues except when there is someone there to interpret the tongues. Paul says he himself prays with tongues "in the spririt" and prays with his understanding also. He SINGS in the spirit (tongues) and sings with his understanding also. He says he thanks his God that he speaks with tongues more than them all. Sounds quite clear that Paul is all for speaking with tongues. And was he not pretty mature at the time?

Are saying Paul doesn’t actually WANT them to speak in tongues, he just happens to say it for, ummm, what reason?

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz, would you put on your glasses please? I didn't say I feared you, I said I feared FOR you!!!! I'm afraid the enemy has blinded your eyes!

And btw, I repented last night to God for the way I spoke to you. I meant what I said, but the way I said it was wrong. And I ask you to forgive me.

 

[faithtransforms]

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz!!! It is plain to see he says I pray with my spirit AND with my understanding, two different things!!!

 

[faithtransforms]

How can you say his post was prideful? Glorydaz, you are way off base on this. I will pray discernment for you. There was nothing the least bit condescending or prideful in awaken's post.

I'm sorry, but I do have to chuckle at this one. How about I use it on you and see what you think?

I was where you are once, faithtransforms, but I grew into maturity. I used to be a child and spoke childish things. I may have even offered to pray for someone because they spoke their mind and I didn't like what they said.

A sure sign of an immature Christian is when they say they will pray for someone to have discernment.
It has a built in judgmentalism for all to see. :yes

These comments show immaturity (babe) :yes

And it is childish to continue to tell everyone that 'you' are mature. My five year old grandchild does the same, as if she wants to be 16 instead of 5.

Two things biblically that shows one to be a babe. 1. unskilled in the scriptures 2 walking carnally instead of spiritually < It can be one or the other, or both.

Just defending someone else's post shows my immaturity? I'm not telling people I'm all that mature. I'm just saying I am NOT ignorant of scripture, that's all. I don't drink milk, I eat meat. And I'm not getting fed milk at my church either, we get the MEAT. My pastor is VERY mature in the Word. I've still got A LOT of maturing to do, because maturity is not knowing but doing. But even mature Christians act carnally sometimes, as both Glorydaz and I have on this thread.

 

[faithtransforms]

watch the personal attacks. all parties, if one cant say it love or must vent at the person offending you then do so via pm.

Yep, I've already repented, LOL

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote faithtransforms : "Just defending someone else's post shows my immaturity? I'm not telling people I'm all that mature. I'm just saying I am NOT ignorant of scripture, that's all. I've still got A LOT of maturing to do, because maturity is not knowing but doing. But even mature Christians act carnally sometimes, as both Glorydaz and I have on this thread."


Hi faith

I don't like to side track this thread, but in answer to your reply >

First, I was commenting that if someone constantly tells others they are mature, or even stating that they are not ignorant of scripture. Usually the opposite is true. Usually.

It is their way of comforting themselves and not feeling deprived of spirituality. Like when a child says - "I can do that too", or "I am a big girl now" < Wanting to be and being mature in the scriptures are two totally different things.

I wasn't picking on you, nor glorydaz. I was just making a point that usually is true.

I agree with you about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and about speaking in tongues. But as you have noticed in other threads, we can easily disagree about other topics as well. Like being slain in the spirit.

Even many christians who do believe in speaking in tongues. Have a problem sticking to the scriptures when it comes to things being done decent and in order in the church. And especially when it comes to doing that which edifies the body of Christ. Being slain in the spirit does not edify the body of Christ, and is out of order. So it is easy to see who is mature and who is not just by reading these threads.

Even when it comes to more indepth topics. We see babes trying to explain biblical topics that are way over their head. Again their immaturity is evident.

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit , one speaks in tongues, and as an individual, builds themselves up spiritually by speaking in tongues. And for the most part should be done in silence and in their heart. Within the church, edification is key. This is why we speak in tongues and also interpret, so that the body receives edification. Prophecy does the same, it builds up the church, and it is edified.

Speaking in tongues is a "sign" of spiritual growth. It works in such a way that one becomes more mature. This does not mean that one who speaks in tongues now automatically is eating the meat of the word. It is a starting point for sure.

The more we understand, and are capable of speaking spiritually, the more mature one becomes. One will see less and less of carnal comments, and more and more of spiritual comments that line up with the scriptures.

Bless

 

[awaken]

It all comes back to knowing what Paul means by tongues. They have always been what they were in Acts. They are other languages. Unless one reads the scripture with that in mind, they will not be able to read them as they were written. I'll just leave it at that. :nod

See..this is where we agree..I believe they are languages!
known languages! but languages the speaker himself does not know!

An unbeliever can speak and learn a known language..so what is supernatural about that?
But for someone to speak a language he has never learned..now that is supernatural!

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. So the tongues that are spoken today by many in the Pentecostal church are what language? No language on the face of this planet, I can guarantee you that. What we saw at Pentecost was a miracle. Jews from all over heard the Word preached in their own language...the Jews required a sign and they got one.

I am affiliated with a missions church. We have missionaries in many foreign countries. The Lord raises up brothers and sister who live among the people of that country. They find someone from that country to interpret the message they bring. They don't miraculously speak in a language they haven't learned. That sign gift has ceased. We no longer have Peter and Paul walking the countryside performing signs and wonders. Those signs followed the Apostles as a confirmation of the Messiahship of Jesus Christ. God still heals....but we don't have "healers". Tongues are exactly the same. They were for a time and a season.

This is where we disagree...how do you know that the languages they speak are not a known language?
Do you know every language in the world?

I believe most missionaries of every denomination has to learn a language to speak to the foreiner. This is not tongues in Acts...even unbelievers can learn a language and interpret.

I do not see man as healers...but I do see God using men to manifest his power...in all nine manifestations listed in 1 Cor. James 5 tells us to call the elders...the elders do not heal them...so why call them? IF ( and I do believe God can) God heals without anything from us..then why pray? Why are we told to do certain things? We are interdependent on each other! That is why we all have different gifts..

And there are miracles done all over the world...maybe not in your circles..but God never stop the miracles...through prayers..laying on of hands..anyway he choses. I do not limit God!

Tongues (languages) are not understood by the speaker..unless God gives the interpretation. If the speaker knew what he was saying...why pray for an interpretation?
Paul spoke in tongues...but not in the church..where did he speak them?
He also said to in verse 16 of Cor.14..."Else when thou Bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room.. say amen"..(sounds like praying to me). verse 17..WOW..Paul sounds encouraging here...For thour verily givest thanks well...If you are thanking God..someone says "amen"...THAT IS PRAYING IN TONGUE..IN THE SPIRIT!

 

[faithtransforms]

Quote faithtransforms : "Just defending someone else's post shows my immaturity? I'm not telling people I'm all that mature. I'm just saying I am NOT ignorant of scripture, that's all. I've still got A LOT of maturing to do, because maturity is not knowing but doing. But even mature Christians act carnally sometimes, as both Glorydaz and I have on this thread."


Hi faith

I don't like to side track this thread, but in answer to your reply >

First, I was commenting that if someone constantly tells others they are mature, or even stating that they are not ignorant of scripture. Usually the opposite is true. Usually.

It is their way of comforting themselves and not feeling deprived of spirituality. Like when a child says - "I can do that too", or "I am a big girl now" < Wanting to be and being mature in the scriptures are two totally different things.

I wasn't picking on you, nor glorydaz. I was just making a point that usually is true.

I agree with you about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and about speaking in tongues. But as you have noticed in other threads, we can easily disagree about other topics as well. Like being slain in the spirit.

Even many christians who do believe in speaking in tongues. Have a problem sticking to the scriptures when it comes to things being done decent and in order in the church. And especially when it comes to doing that which edifies the body of Christ. Being slain in the spirit does not edify the body of Christ, and is out of order. So it is easy to see who is mature and who is not just by reading these threads.

Even when it comes to more indepth topics. We see babes trying to explain biblical topics that are way over their head. Again their immaturity is evident.

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit , one speaks in tongues, and as an individual, builds themselves up spiritually by speaking in tongues. And for the most part should be done in silence and in their heart. Within the church, edification is key. This is why we speak in tongues and also interpret, so that the body receives edification. Prophecy does the same, it builds up the church, and it is edified.

Speaking in tongues is a "sign" of spiritual growth. It works in such a way that one becomes more mature. This does not mean that one who speaks in tongues now automatically is eating the meat of the word. It is a starting point for sure.

The more we understand, and are capable of speaking spiritually, the more mature one becomes. One will see less and less of carnal comments, and more and more of spiritual comments that line up with the scriptures.

Bless

I understand where you are coming from. And I AM only a 5 year old Christian, but do understand that, as I have said before, I have no children, no husband, no friends in my area, and I have NO OTHER INTERESTS besides God. Some people like to crochet or golf. I have NO other interests. It is God and God alone. And being that I am most always alone, I have read the scriptures over and over and over. I know them well and I believe I have a good deal of understanding. I've also spent much time praising and worshipping God and praying. But like I said, IMO, maturity is not knowing but doing. And I am finally beginning to grow in this area, by the grace of God.

To be honest, I don't know if this site is good for me or not. I rarely act THIS carnally, and NEVER to other people. If there is a problem, I will confront in love. When I am angry with something the FIRST thing I do is pray that God will shower them with blessings. I do that despite my flesh and in obedience to God and voila, the anger evaporates.

 

[glorydaz]

How can you say his post was prideful? Glorydaz, you are way off base on this. I will pray discernment for you. There was nothing the least bit condescending or prideful in awaken's post.

I'm sorry, but I do have to chuckle at this one. How about I use it on you and see what you think?

I was where you are once, faithtransforms, but I grew into maturity. I used to be a child and spoke childish things. I may have even offered to pray for someone because they spoke their mind and I didn't like what they said.

A sure sign of an immature Christian is when they say they will pray for someone to have discernment.
It has a built in judgmentalism for all to see. :yes

These comments show immaturity (babe) :yes

And it is childish to continue to tell everyone that 'you' are mature. My five year old grandchild does the same, as if she wants to be 16 instead of 5.

Two things biblically that shows one to be a babe. 1. unskilled in the scriptures 2 walking carnally instead of spiritually < It can be one or the other, or both.

Really? I believe in honestly, even when it's a bit painful.
I don't "continually" tell people I'm mature...but I was asked, if you recall. :yes

Perhaps you would rather I lie or exhibit some false modesty?

When I was young in the Lord, I wasn't so proud that I didn't freely admit it. I certainly hold no animosity for anyone on this board, so I choose to speak the truth. If that's hard for you to deal with then perhaps you should encourage people not to ask such pointed questions...then there would be no need for me to answer as candidly as I could.

PS...please don't call me "babe"...it sounds rather worldly the way you said it.

 

[glorydaz]

HI

Tongues can be of men or of angels, and tongues is not gibberish !

Perhaps you'd care to show from the word that angels speak in some other languages.
Paul was making a point. I guess you missed it.

You're right...tongues aren't gibberish. They are other languages.
It's just too bad that more people don't realize that.

 

[glorydaz]

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz, would you put on your glasses please? I didn't say I feared you, I said I feared FOR you!!!! I'm afraid the enemy has blinded your eyes!

And btw, I repented last night to God for the way I spoke to you. I meant what I said, but the way I said it was wrong. And I ask you to forgive me.

Excuse me, dear, but I do have my glasses on and I see that I said, "You fear for me". I never did say you feared me. See my quote in red (above).

Of course I forgive you...we are trying to have a discussion over a message board, and that is never an easy thing. I'm sorry, too, if I've offended you...that isn't my intent. I have no doubt if we were sitting face to face, we wouldn't be having these problems. The keyboard doesn't do well showing the heart behind the words.

 

[glorydaz]

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz!!! It is plain to see he says I pray with my spirit AND with my understanding, two different things!!!

No...He's adding a qualifier. He's not saying I pray with my spirit or my understanding...that would be two different things.

 

[awaken]

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz!!! It is plain to see he says I pray with my spirit AND with my understanding, two different things!!!

No...He's adding a qualifier. He's not saying I pray with my spirit or my understanding...that would be two different things.

I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz : "I don't "continually" tell people I'm mature...but I was asked, "


But you do continually tell people how immature they are < Same difference !

Or if they don't understand you, that it is not your problem.

I could quote a couple of other comments you have made, but I don't want to shock you. :biglaugh

 

[Mysteryman]

HI

Tongues can be of men or of angels, and tongues is not gibberish !

Perhaps you'd care to show from the word that angels speak in some other languages.
Paul was making a point. I guess you missed it.

You're right...tongues aren't gibberish. They are other languages.
It's just too bad that more people don't realize that.

Hi glorydaz:

So why have you been calling tongues gibberish then ?

Tongues are languages , of men and of angels - I Corinth. 13:1

There are many languages and many dialects. And why would God mention a language of angels unless they are different than languages of men ?

 

[faithtransforms]

You fear for me? That's very interesting. You really can't take someone seeing the Word contrary to your understanding. If it makes you feel better to call me "blind" then I have to wonder if you have taken the Word you've read so many times to heart. Dave has patiently explained what Paul is saying, and I have tried to show you the same thing. I suggest you have your mind set on what Paul is saying and simply can not see where he is admonishing this Corinthian church. Since you don't see that tongues are nothing more than a different language of men, and you don't see that we all pray "in the Spirit" with our understanding then you will forever be confused on this issue.

Glorydaz, would you put on your glasses please? I didn't say I feared you, I said I feared FOR you!!!! I'm afraid the enemy has blinded your eyes!

And btw, I repented last night to God for the way I spoke to you. I meant what I said, but the way I said it was wrong. And I ask you to forgive me.

Excuse me, dear, but I do have my glasses on and I see that I said, "You fear for me". I never did say you feared me. See my quote in red (above).

Of course I forgive you...we are trying to have a discussion over a message board, and that is never an easy thing. I'm sorry, too, if I've offended you...that isn't my intent. I have no doubt if we were sitting face to face, we wouldn't be having these problems. The keyboard doesn't do well showing the heart behind the words.

I have half a mind to think you edited that post AFTER the fact, lol. But yes, I totally agree, if we were sitting at a coffee house discussing scripture, I'm sure we would not be having these problems either.

And thanks for forgiving me

 

[jasoncran]

sometimes when i posting something that is touchy to me, it sounds like i'm screaming. i try not to come across that way.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz : "I don't "continually" tell people I'm mature...but I was asked, "


But you do continually tell people how immature they are < Same difference !

Or if they don't understand you, that it is not your problem.

I could quote a couple of other comments you have made, but I don't want to shock you. :biglaugh

LOL Nothing you could do would shock me, and I'm not shocked by what I say, since I always say it with all my understanding in place. We have been discussing the Corinthian church. Paul makes it clear they are immature. I agree. I also bear in mind that many people who post on message boards are immature and true babes in Christ. Again, I speak my mind...as do you, I might add. At least I keep my comments limited to "immature", which is more than I can say for you and your postings in the past. Perhaps you'd do well to watch that beam in your own eye before you comment on mine. :biglaugh

 

[glorydaz]

I have half a mind to think you edited that post AFTER the fact, lol. But yes, I totally agree, if we were sitting at a coffee house discussing scripture, I'm sure we would not be having these problems either.

And thanks for forgiving me

You'd be wrong about the editing. :yes

I don't even think you can edit something when it's within someone else's post...and mine was in two or three that I saw....and you'll notice no little "edit" sign at the bottom. ;)

If you'd have thought for a moment, you'd realize there is no way I would have claimed you feared me. I'm not a scary person nor do I endeavor to invoke fear in anyone.

Anyway, that's why one should always use their whole mind...not just half of it. :biglaugh

 

[jasoncran]

unless one is a liberal, just kidding. only mods can edit all posts or delete them all together.