Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

[Douglas Summers]

How to you explain the verse in acts 19, receiving the Holy spirit since they believed, what does that verse mean to you?

You have to read the rest of the Scriptures, They were disciples of John the Baptist, What they believed was that they were baptized for the repentance of sin, but Paul explains they must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. So Paul baptizes them in the name of Jesus Christ, Then they received the Holy Spirit. They first believed in John's water baptism, then they herd the gospel from Paul and were baptized into Christ. Believing in Christ gave them the Holy Spirit, not the laying on of hands. (Acts 19:1-7)

 

[godsquadgeek]

You have to read the rest of the Scriptures, They were disciples of John the Baptist, What they believed was that they were baptized for the repentance of sin, but Paul explains they must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. So Paul baptizes them in the name of Jesus Christ, Then they received the Holy Spirit. They first believed in John's water baptism, then they herd the gospel from Paul and were baptized into Christ. Believing in Christ gave them the Holy Spirit, not the laying on of hands. (Acts 19:1-7)

wrong, they would not be called believers if that was the case. They believed in Johns baptism, but not johns salvation. This verse is out of place if your theory is correct: "2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." See if you are correct and they were not saved till this point, then that supports baptismal regeneration.

if your theory was correct he would have simply said get rebaptised into jesus. This verse is unnecessary if that is the case. But since God added this verse in the passage we must honor it. See why mention the Holy Ghost at all at this point?

 

[JLB]

many are confusing the initial filling of the holy spirit with the baptism of the holy spirit.
Acts 19 asks a question, "have you received the holy spirit since you believed" meaning that you can recieve power after salvation, a particular filling of the holy spirit. The verses you speak of is general power given just through salvation. This is a particular gift, that allows one to have gifts of the spirit. Some may have the gift of the spirit but not know why< This is why. Acts 19 power. I will try to link a study to this post in a minute. But this power is available at any time. Just as a man would not deny his children bread, so too God will not deny His Holy Spirit to those who need it. If your ministry is burnt out or dry, so too like evangelicalism without the holy spirit, it too can be revived.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10QMvv1HNpDbL3-OKBzeeRdLLawQtQe12kPePhSWAIr0

Yes!

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is in addition to being born again.

It is the promise of the Father, and come with evidence that can be seen and heard.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Acts 2:33

• which you now see and hear.

JLB

 

[godsquadgeek]

Yes!

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is in addition to being born again.

It is the promise of the Father, and come with evidence that can be seen and heard.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Acts 2:33

• which you now see and hear.

JLB

Good post

 

[FreeGrace]

more verses on the baptism of the holy spirit: "have you received the holy spirit since you believed?"

Luk 3:16; Jhn 1:33; Act 1:4-5; Jhn 20:22; 1Cr 12:13; Jhn 14:17; Rom 8:9; Jhn 7:37-38; Eph 5:18; Luk 11:13; Mat 3:11; Act 1:4; Act 2:1-4; Jhn 20:22; Act 2:38-39; Act 8:16-17; Act 11:15; Act 19:2 Jhn 7:37; Hbr 4:12; Isa 44:3; Jhn 7:39 here are some audio commentaries on acts 19: https://www.blueletterbible.org/aud...pirit.cfm#The_Baptism_of_the_Holy_Spirit_Pt_2

Are you suggesting that ALL these verses ask this question?

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

In 1 Corinthians 14:22 it is stated; " Wherefore tongues are for a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: Can any of you tongue talkers please explain this verse?

 

[ezra]

who said tongues gives power? I think maybe your confusing me with someone else. Tongues is a gift of the spirit, but this power to do ministry comes in many forms, yes I think it CAN be tongues, but it can come in many other forms.

many are confusing the initial filling of the holy spirit with the baptism of the holy spirit.
Acts 19 asks a question, "have you received the holy spirit since you believed" meaning that you can recieve power after salvation, a particular filling of the holy spirit. The verses you speak of is general power given just through salvation. This is a particular gift, that allows one to have gifts of the spirit. Some may have the gift of the spirit but not know why< This is why. Acts 19 power. I will try to link a study to this post in a minute. But this power is available at any time. Just as a man would not deny his children bread, so too God will not deny His Holy Spirit to those who need it. If your ministry is burnt out or dry, so too like evangelicalism without the holy spirit, it too can be revived. .


you been told and showed through many scriptures we have the power at the new birth ... you dont have to pray for the spirit do cartwheels and flips just be born again. after that a person must Grow as we grow we get strong . paul wrote Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
the power will be given as we get stronger in the Lord
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me. through Christ we draw our strength .i belong to a gym while i am no heavy weight lifter. the more i do in the gym the stronger i get . same with Christ the more i abide in him i draw strength

 

[ezra]

The question still must be asked today: Have you received the Spirit since you believed?

YES YES YES YES romans 8
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace,

7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so it be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, " he is none of His." "to be filled is a continuous process ya have to get extra fuel prayer the word Church "

 

[ezra]

Yes!

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is in addition to being born again.

It is the promise of the Father, and come with evidence that can be seen and heard.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Acts 2:33

• which you now see and hear.

JLB

there is your one agreement

 

[godsquadgeek]

dirtfarmer here

In 1 Corinthians 14:22 it is stated; " Wherefore tongues are for a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: Can any of you tongue talkers please explain this verse?

some times you can speak in other languages, for example one time an after glow was happening and a woman got the gift of tongues, and another interpreted. And she spoke perfect aristocratic french, and didn't know french. A lady that heard the tongues in her own dialogue, wanted to be saved immediately. She said it was praises to God in her own language and she wanted to be saved. So in that way it was a sign to them that believe not.

 

[godsquadgeek]

YES YES YES YES romans 8
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace,

7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so it be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, " he is none of His." "to be filled is a continuous process ya have to get extra fuel prayer the word Church "

yes you have the spirit, the spirit is IN you at salvation, but the spirit is not UPON, until you ask him for it.

And behold there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon (epi) him (Luke 2:25).

Acts 8:14-16King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

 

[ezra]

yes you have the spirit, the spirit is IN you at salvation, but the spirit is not UPON, until you ask him for it.

the spirit indwells us at birth the Bible calls it a unction the anointing in you upon you all the same { , but the spirit is not UPON, until you ask him for it)

 

[eddif]

dirtfarmer here

In 1 Corinthians 14:22 it is stated; " Wherefore tongues are for a sign not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: Can any of you tongue talkers please explain this verse?

I kind of think you believe no tongue talker can answer your question.

As an ignorant redneck I'll try.

Wizards chirp and mutter. They are led by a spirit, but it is not the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 8:19 KJV
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Knowledge is given by a familiar spirit.
Acts 16:16 KJV
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

When a pagan begins the muttering all their buddy's accept that as spiritual.

As opposed to .....:

A Christian looks to the interpretation of tongues.
Acts 2:11 KJV
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

The works of God. I Peter 2:24

If the public tongue gets no response then go private. Christians / Jews (one new man) look for understanding not jabbering.

When I speak in tongues I expect Godly wisdom to manifest.
Or
I seek prophecy / Word without tongues.

We do see through a glass darkly. The pagans were being taught what was going on with spiritual gifts in Corinthians.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[godsquadgeek]

.. you dont have to pray for the spirit do cartwheels and flips just be born again.

again I think your mistaken me for someone else, I have never said anything about initial salvation at all. Nor have I even mentioned anything relating to the gospel.

 

[godsquadgeek]

the spirit indwells us at birth the Bible calls it a unction the anointing in you upon you all the same { , but the spirit is not UPON, until you ask him for it) sorry you got to do netter than that.. maybe your bread is outdated

Please keep it nice and polite, no need to start saying ad hominem attacks about my bread being out dated.

Here is another verse for you

Acts 8:14-16King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

 

[gr8grace3]

With respect, the Greek word 'baptizo' does mean "immerse", but the context indicates an "identification with". So, Jesus' baptism in the Jordan by John was His identification with the Father's plan for salvation. Just the same, 1 Cor 10:1-5 indicates that the Israelites were identified with moses in the sea. Note that none of them got wet. It was the Egyptians who got immersed and died.

And in 1 Pet 3:20-21, baptism is linked to the flood, but those saved were identified with Noah, and stayed dry, while the entire rest of of humanity was immersed in water and died.

Per the title of this thread, do you consider "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to be a water baptism, or a dry identification?


The article made no mention of 2 things that prevent the filling of the Holy Spirit; grieving Him (Eph 4:30) and quenching Him (1 Thess 5:19). Nor did it mention the 2 commands that result in the filling of the Holy Spirit: Eph 5:18 - be filled, and Gal 5:16 - walk by means of the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Without mentioning any of these 4 verses, how can there be a real conversation about the filling of the Holy Spirit?

The article began with this: "On his third missionary journey, in the city of Ephesus, Paul found himself face-to-face with a group of believers who seemed dull and dry, listless and lifeless." I'm curious as to how one would come to such a conclusion, since the text says nothing about their "state of being". Then the article tried to link Ezekiel with these disciples.

The article correctly notes that the believer is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but isn't clear about how one is filled with the Spirit.

Then it says this: "By and large, pentecostal theology declares the baptism of the Spirit is subsequent to water baptism. On the other hand, dispensational theology generally teaches the baptism of the Spirit is inherent in water baptism. I believe that the baptism of the Spirit, ideally, is simultaneous with water baptism."

I have no idea what all pentecostal theology declares, but being one of dispensational theology, I've not come across the teaching that baptism of the Holy Spirit is inherent in water baptism. In fact, the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is an identification of the believer with being a child of God, a possession of God, from Eph 1:13,14. "Having believed" (aorist- point in time) the believer is sealed IN HIM with the Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's possession.

So there is no connection between the baptism of the Spirit and water baptism. Water baptism is an ordinance that identifies the believer with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism of the Spirit is the initial indwelling of the Spirit (sealing) which identifies the believer as God's own possession.

Finally, the article completely missed the opportunity to note the importance of being in fellowship with God and Christ, from 1 John 1:9.

Unless one regularly confesses all known sins, there isn't cleansing or purifying, and there is no fellowship. As such, there can be no filling either. Confession is for fellowship, the filling of the Holy Spirit is for service, under God's power.

Great post. Truth.........undeniable if we WANT truth. Thanks.

 

[gr8grace3]

dirtfarmer here


What I have come to understand about "the baptism of the Holy Spirit", is that it is salvation. It is the Spirit that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.
There are those that believe and teach a second work of the Holy Spirit after salvation. I don't find this in scripture.
I find in 1 Corinthians 12 is that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to all.

 

[gr8grace3]

Right. The filling of the Holy Spirit is a command (Eph 5:18). It's not continual. When a believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT filled, and need to correct the situation.

1 John 1:9.......corrects our grieving and quenching of His Spirit. You know this. Just repeating,repeating and repeating because that is how we learn!

New American Standard Bible
"For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.'"

 

[Douglas Summers]

if your theory was correct he would have simply said get rebaptised into jesus.

Edited
I know what happened to me. I received the Holy Ghost when I was saved....instantly! And when the Spirit used me, I was filled with the Spirit to carry out His will. I was sitting in Church one day and the pastor did not show up. I'am very shy to speak in front of people, but the Spirit called me out of the pew and filled me with His Spirit and He took over. Another time we had a member of the congregation to fill in for the pastor one Sunday. That day the Spirit told me to prepare a sermon for tonight, I was afraid not to prepare for I thought I might be imagining things....so I prepared, and that night the member told me he lost his voice and asked me what to do, why did he ask me? Anyway, i was filled with the Spirit and he preached His teaching. There are many more instances where the Holy Spirit has called me and filled me, sometimes in an instant . A man must be in fellowship, seeking and have a willing spirit.

If Paul would have listened to the Spirit, he might have preached the Gospel longer than he did, but he was cut short because he would not obey the Spirit. If your interested why Paul was martyred before his time, study Acts chapters 21 and 22 prayerfully.

 

[gr8grace3]

Our church does that once a month. That's not nearly frequent enough if that's how we are filled. We need to be filled EVERY TIME we have sinned, which is the barometer of the fact that we've gone off track and are functioning from our sin nature, rather than from the Holy Spirit who indwells our new nature.

Only when we are functioning from our new nature will we not sin. But the moment we switch from the new to the sin nature, we have lost the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Worthy of repeat.