Bible Study Battling evil desires

[JLB]

You have neglected the body raised with Christ from the dead.
It has been quickened by the Holy Spirit and without our constant attention can be led astray, back into the darkness.

It will be quickened by the Spirit at the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

 

[JLB]

Is your goal to deny water baptism or is it to deny perfect obedience to God?

My goal is to encourage people to be baptized in water as well as be baptized with the Holy Spirit.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Does that mean they (OT men) all died in their sins and are none of God's own, or do you think it was back then and even today and forever about having faith that made one righteous in the eyes of God as they were made righteous by God's righteousness found in them for being faithful and obedient to God's commands.

They had the Mosaic Law to deal with their sins, after Moses.
Before that, where there was no law, there was no sin. (Rom 3:20)

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Which brings us back to the OP about pleasing God.

As for the OP, it IS possible to please God, with any kind of past history.
But that history needs to be kept under control, as we are new creatures after our rebirths.

 

[Hopeful]

Im glad you see that our body does not literally die at water baptism.

If you have faith it does.
It is where the old man is killed, and we don't need him around anymore. (Rom 6:5-7)

 

[Hopeful]

It will be quickened by the Spirit at the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

Agreed, but the new creature is quickened too, after the old man's death with Christ. (Rom 6:6, 8:11)

 

[Hopeful]

My goal is to encourage people to be baptized in water as well as be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Good.
One baptism done by men and the other done by God.

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
JLB

Yes, I did.
Not immediately, as I have "believed" since childhood.
But wasn't baptized till I was in my twenties and didn't actually repent of sin till much later.
The repentance was the deal sealer.

 

[for_his_glory]

They had the Mosaic Law to deal with their sins, after Moses.
Before that, where there was no law, there was no sin. (Rom 3:20)

Do you honestly think every Prophet in the OT kept all 613 laws without breaking even one of them! I don't think so.

God's laws have always been beginning with Adam before the flood and then continued with Noah after the flood. Go look up the Noahic laws. Those commands were way before the Mosaic laws.

As for the OP, it IS possible to please God, with any kind of past history.
But that history needs to be kept under control, as we are new creatures after our rebirths.

What is done in the past is just that, it's the past whether it be those in the OT, NT and even today as it has always been by God's grace through faith that we are made righteous through His righteousness to all who will humble themselves and come to Him with a heart of repentance.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was that of Satan's messenger trying to buffet him. Buffet here means to strike repeatedly as Satan used his demons to come against Paul and persecute him everywhere he went. Paul prayed three times for God to take these persecutions away and God said "no" as God said "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness".

2 Corinthians 12:9 Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

As a child of God we are still human and will face temptations as no one can control the random thoughts that enter our mind, even if they are sexual thoughts, but when those thoughts start to make us weak to the point of lusting and wanting to act on them then it's God's strength that we seek within our weakness.

As per the OP, we want to please God in our thoughts and deeds.

 

[JLB]

Good.
One baptism done by men and the other done by God.

Two done by God, one by man.

Water baptism is done by man.



JLB

 

[K2CHRIST]

You didn't see that I wrote "we are in Christ".
If there is sin in us we can't be "in Christ.
And your "principal" was annulled by Rom 8:2.

It's not my principle!!!

Paul - the man that wrote so much of the New Testament explained that it was a principle - so you are not rejecting me you are rejecting the very Scriptures you claim to believe are correct - and it's rather interesting that you quote one verse that Paul wrote to deny another verse that Paul wrote. To have the correct conclusion and understanding of the writings you must not throw out one verse for another. So Rom 8:2 can't not "annul and other verse, like you are saying.

So let us actually look at Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

"free from the law of sin and death does not mean that the law of sin and death is not still there!! You somehow concluded that because Paul wrote "free from" you concluded that sin is not in you. That is called a jump in logic!!

That jump in logic was what Paul was trying to explain - which is why Paul wrote about the principle that he found before moving on!

We are not righteous because we do everything right!!

We are however counted as being righteous simply because we believe in Jesus Christ!!

Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!

Therefore your good works - perfection or lack of sin (all unrighteousness is sin) - was intentionally excluded - and that because we could not achieve it. Jesus did the what we could not do! He did and said only what the Father told Him - we don't do that! Even if we truly know the Lord and listen to Him, like the angels in heaven, we don't only do and say what we hear from the small voice of the Lord. Indeed, we find that we make mistakes, even with our best efforts to do good. Which is exactly what Paul was explaining!!

To me, I find it amazing that Christians does understand this principle which Paul wrote about!

For example: The Lord asked me to sign up for the school of ministry the very large church the Lord asked me to go to ran. There were about 100 people in the class that I took for the required 2 years. And not surprisingly, they gave us tests!!

Incredibly - if you care to believe it, most people rarely got 100% right on the test!!

Since all unrighteousness is sin - I was with a whole bunch of sinners!!!

And what was worse I found that I usually didn't get 100 % correct on the test!

It was easy for anyone who cared to looked that we were not 100% righteous people!!!

So why is it that I run across "Christians" who think that they do get everything right???

Do they simply just not understand that righteousness means getting everything right? Are they just so focused on what others get wrong that they can't see the log in their own eye? Perhaps they are just deceiving themselves into thinking that they don't have problems, issues, and things that need to be improved?

Paul told them not to take that attitude! Paul explained the principle that evil was present inside them! Paul was not presenting Christians as "Perfect people" because they didn't sin but because they believed in Jesus Christ!!

Now Jesus explained that He reproved those He loves, and it is written that they will all be taught of God.

Now if you are perfect by work and deed, so that you do everything right which includes getting 100% on every test you take, then you don't need to be reproved and you don't need to be taught either.

And it is an interesting place where Jesus Christ explain that He reproves that He loves. It is found n Rev 3:19. It is interesting because in the very next verse Jesus explains that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the Lord He will come into them.

Isn't it the case that if you don't think you need reprove, which is to say that you have taken the attitude that your are perfect, that you won't seek the voice of the Lord because He might reprove you?

We thus need a repentant attitude, as opposed to a self righteous attitude, if we are to wind up seek Him and His voice!!

And this is all summed up in what John wrote 1 Jn: 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Of course John was right!! If we say that we have no sin, because we are deceiving ourselves, then we didn't actually seek Jesus Christ who stands at the door waiting to reprove us, did we!!

Now I love the way that Lord Jesus Christ, who sends His Holy Spirit to bring His words to my spirit, reproves me!!

He does it with that small still voice of His and He does it with love. He still says and does only what the Father tells Him, unlike me. So He has just the right words to say to me, And He is extremely smart!! His thoughts are not my thoughts! I found that out. As high as the heavens are above the earth are His thoughts above my thoughts. I found that out too. He is so incredible that I point people to Him for advice! I am not point people to me - as in the principle that evil is present in us is 'my principle'.

I want to thank you for making me seem as wise as the Lord ! But honestly I did not come up with that principle. Like Paul, I found it, but that only after the Holy Spirit did a work in my life. I now understand, thanks to the Holy Spirit, that sin dwells in me, so that I need to seek the Lord Jesus Christ listen to what He say to me via His Holy Spirit! After all, how am I supposed to get better if I don't even think I need to keep getting better and seek the Lord for answers in my life?

I am not going to deceive myself into thinking I don't have sin. I am going to ask the Lord to forgive my sins and show me a better way - which all comes down to seeking my Lord Jesus Christ and listening to Him.

Honestly, I find He a bit weird because He thinking is so far beyond mine. But I also find what He says incredible.

WE HEAR WISDOM, BUT IS IT THE HEARING OR THE ACTING UPON IT THAT MAKES A MAN WISE?

So it is, that if you listen to Him you get taught, reproved, and release that it is not you who is perfect, but Him. Fortunately for us; If we simply believe in Him, that He is there for us, we can get the "correction" we need. Still, Christians don't always get 100% on the tests they take. We are not 100% right, so not righteous by deed, but belief in Him!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Our flesh has no bearing on our actions, but our mind does.
If our mind rules our actions, we will not commit sin.
We will not be led into either same sex or opposite sex encounters.

That is non-sense!!

Your flesh effects your thinking (mind) whether you care to admit it or not.

For example, Christians still get hungry!!

Perhaps you need to resist it, but maybe not. What did the Lord tell you "Today"?

There have been times when the Lord told me to fast for a period. Every time I got hungry because ' the flesh does have have a bearing on our actions.

If I hit you in the "funny bone" you are going to flinch, because that reaction is not even put through the mind. In either way, the flesh does have a "bearing" on our actions. It might not get the final say, but it has a bearing because it can communicate to our mind!! We all know that, so how silly to suggest it doens't.

And sin (evil spirits) take that opportunity to tempt us!!

Now you might be able to think it through and deny the desires of the flesh, but denying them does not mean they are not present and that from with in you!!

And I am amazed that people make conclusion about the Lord for others!!!

Do we not know that our thoughts are not His thoughts????

I would not think that God would tell someone to have sex with someone of the opposite sex, but to say that God wouldn't lead someone into either same sex or opposite sex encounters, is to make conclusion which are not our to make.

Hos 1:2 When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, “Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD.”

Wow the Lord did lead someone to have an opposite sex encounters - so you are wrong, because He did tell Hosea to take a harlot and have children with her!!!

We make assumptions and show ourselves to be wrong! And all unrighteousness is sin! That means we sin, and that because we didn't listen to the Lord before taking actions!

In that same way, the Lord gave us a physical body. That body needs food to eat. So He is the one who put the desires of the flesh in us, and that for a reason. We might pervert them by listening to the evil which is present in them. But the desires of the flesh came with the flesh, and that is were God put us.

So what was all that with Hosea about?

Well - glad you asked! Because back to the book of Romans we go:

Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,'
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.'”

The Lord had Hosea take a harlot to show how He is. There are people who show up at church with questionable back grounds, and He marries them, spiritually speaking. And who are those people? "US" - we were people with different desires according to the flesh! We still get hungry. We still have desires. The flesh still has effects on us. That doesn't mean we should give in, but flesh is still there... some are called by God to give into the desire at the right time!!

He came into my life just over 20 years ago, and that while I was going through a divorce. About 15 years ago He pointed out a lady at church and had me marry her. She is a wonderful Christian lady who hears from the Lord and I get to spend time with her. So it is that the Lord makes arraignment for the flesh, Indeed He even has purposes. My wife and I have spent wonderful times as a couple serving the Lord.

The Lord "lead" Hosea into a sexual encounter which resulted in children! Yet someone wrote that He wouldn't do that type of thing!!! That was an assumption, and was not actually from listening to Him like Hosea did!

Which brings us back to the OP about pleasing God.

This was a discussion about pleasing God. We please God by listening to Him and doing what He asks. We can't assume what He wants, we actually have to listen to Him!! As for the flesh, He put us in it. It has a say in our lives, but that does not mean we listen to the flesh! We need to listen to Him, yet He makes provisions for the flesh according to His plans. So who is pleasing Him? The person listening to Him and not just assuming what He wants.

 

[Hopeful]

Do you honestly think every Prophet in the OT kept all 613 laws without breaking even one of them! I don't think so.

Me either.

God's laws have always been beginning with Adam before the flood and then continued with Noah after the flood. Go look up the Noahic laws. Those commands were way before the Mosaic laws.

Then Rom 3:20 is wrong.
I don't see a Noahic law in the bible.
Where do you see that?

What is done in the past is just that, it's the past whether it be those in the OT, NT and even today as it has always been by God's grace through faith that we are made righteous through His righteousness to all who will humble themselves and come to Him with a heart of repentance.
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Paul's thorn in the flesh was that of Satan's messenger trying to buffet him. Buffet here means to strike repeatedly as Satan used his demons to come against Paul and persecute him everywhere he went. Paul prayed three times for God to take these persecutions away and God said "no" as God said "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness".
2 Corinthians 12:9 Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

As a child of God we are still human and will face temptations as no one can control the random thoughts that enter our mind, even if they are sexual thoughts, but when those thoughts start to make us weak to the point of lusting and wanting to act on them then it's God's strength that we seek within our weakness.
As per the OP, we want to please God in our thoughts and deeds.

 

[Hopeful]

Two done by God, one by man.

Water baptism is done by man.

What other baptism is done by God, besides the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost? {Baptism of the Holy Spirit)

 

[Hopeful]

It's not my principle!!

It is your own private interpretation of Rom 7 without Rom 6 or 8's impact.

Paul - the man that wrote so much of the New Testament explained that it was a principle - so you are not rejecting me you are rejecting the very Scriptures you claim to believe are correct - and it's rather interesting that you quote one verse that Paul wrote to deny another verse that Paul wrote. To have the correct conclusion and understanding of the writings you must not throw out one verse for another. So Rom 8:2 can't not "annul and other verse, like you are saying.

Not "deny it", but to update it from a past recollection to the modern time in which Paul was writing about it.
It is Paul's way of presenting a before and after treatise.

So let us actually look at Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

"free from the law of sin and death does not mean that the law of sin and death is not still there!! You somehow concluded that because Paul wrote "free from" you concluded that sin is not in you. That is called a jump in logic!!

If Paul and I are free of it it isn't in us.
The principal may still be on earth, but it doesn't impact those who have been made free of it.

That jump in logic was what Paul was trying to explain - which is why Paul wrote about the principle that he found before moving on!

You forgot to "move on" with him, implying a past principal still effects those freed from it.

We are not righteous because we do everything right!!

If He made us righteous it follows that we ARE righteous.

We are however counted as being righteous simply because we believe in Jesus Christ!!
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!
Therefore your good works - perfection or lack of sin (all unrighteousness is sin) - was intentionally excluded - and that because we could not achieve it. Jesus did the what we could not do! He did and said only what the Father told Him - we don't do that! Even if we truly know the Lord and listen to Him, like the angels in heaven, we don't only do and say what we hear from the small voice of the Lord. Indeed, we find that we make mistakes, even with our best efforts to do good. Which is exactly what Paul was explaining!!
To me, I find it amazing that Christians does understand this principle which Paul wrote about! ...

Sounds like the words of the OT.
Words written before we were freed from the devil and from sin.

For example: The Lord asked me to sign up for the school of ministry the very large church the Lord asked me to go to ran. There were about 100 people in the class that I took for the required 2 years. And not surprisingly, they gave us tests!!
Incredibly - if you care to believe it, most people rarely got 100% right on the test!!

Since all unrighteousness is sin - I was with a whole bunch of sinners!!!

Where is the unrighteousness of getting a wrong answer?
Are you one of those who says it is a sin if your shoe laces come undone?

And what was worse I found that I usually didn't get 100 % correct on the test!
It was easy for anyone who cared to looked that we were not 100% righteous people!!!
So why is it that I run across "Christians" who think that they do get everything right???
Do they simply just not understand that righteousness means getting everything right? Are they just so focused on what others get wrong that they can't see the log in their own eye? Perhaps they are just deceiving themselves into thinking that they don't have problems, issues, and things that need to be improved?

Don't you think that some actually take the log out of their own eye?

Paul told them not to take that attitude! Paul explained the principle that evil was present inside them! Paul was not presenting Christians as "Perfect people" because they didn't sin but because they believed in Jesus Christ!!
Now Jesus explained that He reproved those He loves, and it is written that they will all be taught of God.
Now if you are perfect by work and deed, so that you do everything right which includes getting 100% on every test you take, then you don't need to be reproved and you don't need to be taught either.

Straw man argument.
All grow in grace and knowledge as they age in the faith

And it is an interesting place where Jesus Christ explain that He reproves that He loves. It is found n Rev 3:19. It is interesting because in the very next verse Jesus explains that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the Lord He will come into them.
Isn't it the case that if you don't think you need reprove, which is to say that you have taken the attitude that your are perfect, that you won't seek the voice of the Lord because He might reprove you?

Isn't it also interesting that some think that if they are not being reproved they are not loved?
That is the root of the battered wife syndrome...isn't it?

We thus need a repentant attitude, as opposed to a self righteous attitude, if we are to wind up seek Him and His voice!

Some have actually done exactly that.

And this is all summed up in what John wrote 1 Jn: 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Good thing 1 John 1:5, 7 and 9 are there to provide the path opposite of verse 6, 8, and 10's walk in darkness.
Walk in the light, where there is no sin.

Of course John was right!! If we say that we have no sin, because we are deceiving ourselves, then we didn't actually seek Jesus Christ who stands at the door waiting to reprove us, did we!

Where that actually the case, verses 7 and 9 would be lies.
Some take reproof to heart.

 

[Hopeful]

That is non-sense!!

Then you say our skin and bones CAN cause us to sin.

Your flesh effects your thinking (mind) whether you care to admit it or not.

For example, Christians still get hungry!!

Perhaps you need to resist it, but maybe not. What did the Lord tell you "Today"?

There have been times when the Lord told me to fast for a period. Every time I got hungry because ' the flesh does have have a bearing on our actions.

If I hit you in the "funny bone" you are going to flinch, because that reaction is not even put through the mind. In either way, the flesh does have a "bearing" on our actions. It might not get the final say, but it has a bearing because it can communicate to our mind!! We all know that, so how silly to suggest it doens't.

And sin (evil spirits) take that opportunity to tempt us!!

Now you might be able to think it through and deny the desires of the flesh, but denying them does not mean they are not present and that from with in you!!

And I am amazed that people make conclusion about the Lord for others!!!

Do we not know that our thoughts are not His thoughts????

I would not think that God would tell someone to have sex with someone of the opposite sex, but to say that God wouldn't lead someone into either same sex or opposite sex encounters, is to make conclusion which are not our to make.

Hos 1:2 When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, “Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD.”

Wow the Lord did lead someone to have an opposite sex encounters - so you are wrong, because He did tell Hosea to take a harlot and have children with her!!!

We make assumptions and show ourselves to be wrong! And all unrighteousness is sin! That means we sin, and that because we didn't listen to the Lord before taking actions!

In that same way, the Lord gave us a physical body. That body needs food to eat. So He is the one who put the desires of the flesh in us, and that for a reason. We might pervert them by listening to the evil which is present in them. But the desires of the flesh came with the flesh, and that is were God put us.

So what was all that with Hosea about?

Well - glad you asked! Because back to the book of Romans we go:

Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,'
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.'”

The Lord had Hosea take a harlot to show how He is. There are people who show up at church with questionable back grounds, and He marries them, spiritually speaking. And who are those people? "US" - we were people with different desires according to the flesh! We still get hungry. We still have desires. The flesh still has effects on us. That doesn't mean we should give in, but flesh is still there... some are called by God to give into the desire at the right time!!

He came into my life just over 20 years ago, and that while I was going through a divorce. About 15 years ago He pointed out a lady at church and had me marry her. She is a wonderful Christian lady who hears from the Lord and I get to spend time with her. So it is that the Lord makes arraignment for the flesh, Indeed He even has purposes. My wife and I have spent wonderful times as a couple serving the Lord.

The Lord "lead" Hosea into a sexual encounter which resulted in children! Yet someone wrote that He wouldn't do that type of thing!!! That was an assumption, and was not actually from listening to Him like Hosea did!



This was a discussion about pleasing God. We please God by listening to Him and doing what He asks. We can't assume what He wants, we actually have to listen to Him!! As for the flesh, He put us in it. It has a say in our lives, but that does not mean we listen to the flesh! We need to listen to Him, yet He makes provisions for the flesh according to His plans. So who is pleasing Him? The person listening to Him and not just assuming what He wants.

The person obeying Him is the one pleasing Him.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Then you say our skin and bones CAN cause us to sin.

The person obeying Him is the one pleasing Him.

Your flesh and bones and the desires that come from them are something that evil spirit use to try and get you to sin!!

Yes, the person who obeys Him pleases Him, and that requires that you listen to Him, but none of us listen to Him like we should!! Jesus did! He did and said only what the Father told Him, but we don't. We are counted as being righteous because we believe in Him (Jesus Christ), who because He does and says only what the Father tells Him, is called "The Word of God"

Because we believe in Him, we will listen to Him! Not perfectly, but our belief enables Him to work with us, something like He does with the angels in heaven that serve Him. Still, only God is good and not you or I.!! And still there are evil spirits who can communicate with you - or why else are we told to test the spirits and why are we told our battle is with the dark forces of this world.

So because we believe in Him, we do listen to Him at times, and He can get through to us when He needs to. And if He does we are willing to do what He (our Lord asks). That doesn't mean you are perfect by your great works, but rather that He counts you as being righteous. He no longer remembers your sins, but He pulls you into a relationship with Him. So you and Him talk. You reason with Him. You learn. You get better and thus improve. You are, if you believe in Him, a work in progress and specifically His work in progress.

Still those evil spirits, the dark forces you battle with, tempt you and that usually with the desires you have in the flesh!!

So then, a person shows up at our Christian church saying they have a sexual desire for other people of the same sex. Can we not understand what they are going through, since we have our desires and our battles with the dark forces of this world? And can we not turn them to, and even want them to talk to, Jesus Christ and get them talking with Him and reasoning with Him? After all, He helps us with our struggles doesn't He?

Yet if we don't have understanding, the type of understanding the comes from His voice, then we start to judge those people we think are not up to "our: standards. Instead of realizing that 'all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God' we judge them, make them feel unwelcome, instead of understood. And so it is that the church is thought to have a bunch of "self-righteous" people. Now the person thinking that might also be thinking it because of the battles they have with evil spirits, but we provided the support for the accusations made against us saints. And that because we deceive ourselves in to thinking that we don't have sin (those evil spirits) working in us. It is in us that we pick up the communication from spirits, because spirits communicate with our spirit and our spirit is found in us.

So if I deceive myself (and evil spirits want that to happen) into thinking that I am now perfect by my actions instead of by my faith, then I don't test the spirits. I don't seek the Lord Jesus Christ for reproof, correction, teachings, and to make myself better. Oh I may want some of those great feelings which I can pick up in my spirit. But if I didn't test the spirits, because I think I can not get something wrong, then where did the great feeling come from. You don't know, because you didn't test the spirits.

You can find that test also in 1 John, because it goes what John was trying to get across in that letter.

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

If anyone does not think they could be wrong, could sin, could get something wrong because they have the Holy Spirit, then they are not testing the spirits!!!! Yet this was written from John to Christians!!

1 Jn 4:4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

So is was the "beloved", the "little children" who "have overcome" that John was telling to test the spirit, and also those he was writing to in that letter which also had:

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John was not actually telling them they did not have the truth so were not the 'little children' but John was pointing out that we have battles with evil spirits. So we needed to be aware of the struggles, battles, and as Paul put it" the principle that evil is present in us.

Indeed, did we not read that even Jesus was taken out into the desert by the Holy Spirit to be tested and tempted by Satan. Satan tempted Him with food, because the flesh want and desires food and He was fasting. Satan tempted Him with positions - all the things He could see with His fleshy eyes. Satan tempted Him and tempted Him, and when that didn't work Satan back off and looked for a more opportune time, like when He was about to be grabbed and put on the cross. It was a temptation to prevent the pain His flesh would experience. That is to say that Satan uses the desire we have because God put us in our fleshy bodies to tempt us.

We know this, right? We talked to the Lord and it was explained to us, right? Well, if not that is ok. He can and will if we turn to Him. He gives us knowledge, wisdom, and understanding from His mouth, and it is not hard to understand that we all personally have desires of the flesh. I like to eat when I am hungry. I like to keep my home at a comfortable temperature. I like holding my wife, and I am happy the Lord gave me a woman to be my wife. It is not the God doesn't understand that He gave us our fleshy bodies, and in so doing He also gave us desires of the flesh. He can and does provide for those desires. But then, Satan uses them to harm us and keep us from seeking the Lord. Does not Satan and those dark forces which serve Him get people to pervert the desires if he can? Satan tempts us, with the desires of the flesh, and perverts them, but that does not mean God did not give us the flesh, the desires, and all that for a good reason.

Again, Paul wrote that he did the things he did not want. Paul found that there was a "thorn in his flesh" which was a messenger of Satan. Paul found the principle that evil was present in him. So Paul and John both understood that battle in them with the dark forces of this world. They did not deceive themselves, and that because Jesus Christ, the truth, talked to them, reproved them, taught them, and gave them wisdom and understanding.

None of the above means we should go about sinning and coming into agreement with those dark evil forces of this world. Don't sin. God does not tell you to sin, but the Lord could have you take a wife and even have children, which of course involves sex. Indeed, if the Lord Jesus Christ tells you anything, it is not a sin, because what God says is right, but test the spirits, resist the devil, and take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. Never-the-less, we find out that we often do the very thing we do not want, and that because of the principle that evil is present in us, just like Paul explain, just like John explain, and this is all recorded in the Scriptures!!

So listen to the Lord Jesus Christ, via His Holy Spirit, and do what He tells you! That is not a sin or sinning! And know that He grace and mercy is enough for you even though you find that you have a thorn (a messenger from Satan) in your flesh. Confess your sins and He is faithful to forgive you and cleanse you. That doesn't mean He removes the thorn in your flesh, but that He forgives you and no longer remember your sins. So He counts you as being righteous and perfect in His sight. You are now like a child of His who is learning, and learning from God is a good thing isn't it?

So because of all the above, you who are made perfect by the grace and mercy of God will not have an attitude that you are perfect and have already achieved the goal will you, but you take the attitude that you press on, don't you. That attitude we cause you to be understanding of all other people who also, like you, have their struggles with evil that is present in them also! Is it not enough that they believe in Him and so turn to Him, and want to please Him also? So it is the God put us all in the same boat - sinners in need of our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Good thing 1 John 1:5, 7 and 9 are there to provide the path opposite of verse 6, 8, and 10's walk in darkness.
Walk in the light, where there is no sin.

If anyone thinks some verse provide an opposite path than other verses they lack understanding!!!

God does not tell you one thing and then another thing, so that one thing doesn't go with the other thing. All the Scriptures go together!! You are throwing out some Scriptures to get to the conclusion you have made instead of taking it to the Lord to get understanding about how they all go together!

Let's take verses 5-10 - because they all go together

This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

The above is all meant to turn you to Jesus Christ!

First - God is light!!

A light is something that lets you see what is going on around you!! So He make you aware of what is going on around you!!

Of course darkness cause us to not see what is going on around us. So if we have the light we don't miss the things going on around us!

So if we walk with Him and have fellowship with Him we see what is happening around us and thus practice the "Truth" It is nice to have fellowship with those aware of the good and evil which is going on, but some don't see the evil, even in themselves.

There is some wisdom that explains to fix a problem you must first be aware of it!!! Thus it is important that we know about good and evil to avoid the evil! And Jesus helps us with this! He shows us what problems we have so that He can help us fix them! That is how you get cleaned up.

So it is that we see that verse:" If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

That is obvious since because if we have the light He has shown us that principle which Paul wrote about: "the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good."

That being aware of our sins (being in the Light) causes us to confess our sins, and so with that He forgives us, which makes us clean is His sight. And we know that we should be praying "forgive us our debts, every time we come before God and pray the Lord's prayer. Which is every day, right?

The cleansing us meant we are righteous in His sight, not that He removes all the evil spirit and dark forces in this world, which we find tempting us inside!

So Paul and John knew about evil being with them! Yet those still in the darkness don't see that. They deceive themselves because they are not in the Light (Jesus Christ) and so don't have the truth (Jesus Christ) in them.

They don't have the Light (verse 5) so they can not see that God has put before them both good and evil, just like He said He had. They tend to chase off fellowship with one another, which went back to the problem seen in the OP from the original thread. (verse 6) Like the Pharisees they have trouble understanding how Jesus could deal with sinners. (verse 7). They deceive themselves by telling themselves they don't have sin, "the principle that evil is present in" us), the ones "who wants to do good." (verse 8) So they don't confess their sins, and not forgivens, and thus are not cleansed (verse 9) And so they say they have not sinned and are making Him a liar, and all that because He word is not in them (verse 10)

All those verse cover step by step by step that God is light and the truth, which means that He shows us the evil going on even in us, which is the truth, which is the principle that evil is present in us. If they don't see the light and know the truth, then they have trouble dealing with others, because we come off as self-righteous instead of righteous because He forgives them. They don't even know that they sin so they don't confess them and thus don't get forgiven. They wind up saying that we have not sinned and thus make Him a liar and all that because His word is not in them.

 

[JLB]

What other baptism is done by God, besides the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost? {Baptism of the Holy Spirit)

• The Spirit baptizes us into Christ when we are born again.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

• Man baptizes us in water.

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

• Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11


Three distinct and different baptisms with three distinct and different baptizers.


Paul says it this way —


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2





JLB

 

[K2CHRIST]

Someone brought this "Battling the Flesh" thread over from another thread, which was a fine thing to do. We do have battles, to say otherwise is to make God a liar. Paul specifically wrote by the wisdom of God that we battle not with flesh and blood, but with powers, principalities, and dark forces. Since Paul wrote it and we find it in our Bible it is so.

Yet look again, Paul wrote: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Yet someone wrote "Battling the Flesh" - wow - they got that wrong and missed what Paul wrote. There is a reason they got that wrong of course, and the reason is that we mistake the work of Satan as a battle in our flesh. We simply don't see sin for who he is.

For example: God places a desire in our flesh to have sex - make children. The dark evil forces of this world come along and pervert that desire. So the desire in our flesh is not the problem but the dark forces are the problem - and we have that battle with them!!! So while is seems like "Battling the Flesh" it is not! It is our struggle with the dark forces, and we then find that struggle with sin (the dark spiritual forces) in us, even in our flesh. So we make the mistake of writing "Battling the Flesh" when the battle is with sin, those dark spiritual forces. We have those struggles/battles! If then we say that we do not have sin (those struggles with the dark spiritual forces) we make God our to be a lair and the truth is not in us. Frankly, we just are not seeing the light if we don't know about the spiritual battles!!!

This both Paul and John wrote about, and the same misunderstanding that produced the wrong stated heading for this thread could lead to the wrong conclusions in a persons life. That is, a person could read about the principle that evil is present in us and think Paul was talking about a battle with the flesh and not a battle with evil spiritual forces who are trying to use the flesh and the laws that go with having flesh and thinking our battle is with the flesh. It is not with the flesh, but we do have battles with evil forces (sin) that seem like the battle is with our flesh.

So what then about a person that says they don't have sin - those battles with the dark forces of this world who taking advantage of the laws of the flesh try to get us to not seek the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, obviously they have been deceiving themselves. They maybe listening to a spirit but that spirit is not the Spirit of God, because He puts a light on the situation and makes us aware of the battle with the dark forces that is going on in us.

A person like that tends to say they don't sin, because they have the Holy Spirit, where as John wrote "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

Through Moses God said He puts before us both good and evil and that we need to choose good. If you say that you don't have sin (those evil forces we struggle with) you are saying that God has not put before you both good and evil. If you say that have not sinned, at some point come into agreement with sin, those dark evil spirits, you also make Him a liar because it is written "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," [Rom 3:23]

If you have Jesus Christ, the light of this world, you are aware of all this. So you pray the Lord's prayer like He told us to, and that prayer has in it the request to forgive us. If we pray that pray He is faithful to forgive us, and that by the blood of Jesus Christ, so that we are not forgiven and clean in His sight. We are not clean because we never sinned or because we don't have our struggles with sin, those dark evil spiritual forces, but we are clean because He forgives us.

If you don't see this it is because you are not walking in the light but in the darkness! The darkness has told them that they are now perfect because of their good works, but only God is good. The darkness has told them that they don't have a battle with the dark evil forces (sin), and they came into agreement with them. They have thus deceived themselves. With their eyes they don't see, and with their ears they don't hear, otherwise they would have turned back to Jesus Christ and been aware that they struggle with sin, those dark evil forces. They don't pray the Lord's prayer because they don't think they need forgiveness. They don't test the spirits because they don't think they have a battle with them. They think others have a battle with their flesh instead of spirits taking advantage of the desires God put in the flesh (the law of the flesh). They just don't understand that good and evil has been put before them and so they think was is evil is good. So pride has taken over in their lives.

We read about this with the Pharisees, but not only them. Still people sometimes forget about looking honestly about themselves and miss the log in their own eye. And indeed, it must be a big log to cause a person to think they don't have struggles with those evil forces! Yet they do look at a person who recognizes they do have struggles which they need the Lord's help with and then accuse the saints of God who are actually looking to Him.

That takes me back to the start of this thread:

There was a quote from someone who had written:

"sanctification keeps going till glorification. this side of eternity, we all sin and stumble and fall short, to varying degrees of severity. fallen world, frail and sin prone human beings/creatures...all in need of of redemption from The creator."

That was a wise saying, and a deep understanding. It gives glory to God and shows an understanding of our human nature and God's great power of redemption. I loved the part about how sanctification keeps going till glorification.. We do indeed need the help of the Lord day by day. It was one of the best and deepest bits of writing I have seen on this forum. Yet the response was "I'm sorry you feel that way" -- What - that he feels He needs to walk with the Lord day by day. That he realizes his great "need of redemption" My friends, it is that need for the Lord that truly drives us to seek the Lord, but the person that does not feel that need to have the Lord in their life who does not have the Lord in their life! If you see the need for our Lord Jesus Christ in your life you will turn other people to Him, and that is the work of God that all should come to know the Lord. Even the persons who are deceiving themselves by thinking they don't have sin. Which is why I write, even take much time to do it when the Lord askes me to. Which He did again this morning.

Still, He asked and I write - though it is hard to explain to a person who thinks they have no problems that we all do still have both good and evil before us.

I'm sorry you feel that way.
Those "IN" Christ do not sin, as there is no sin in Christ.
They who have been washed by the blood of Christ are sanctified. (Atoned for, consecrated, set apart, blessed, made holy.)
Perhaps you were thinking of another word?

1Jn 1:8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Which one of the two shown in the opening post of this thread acknowledges that they have sin, so confesses it, is forgiven and does not say they have not sinned?

Yeah - if you do and say only what the Lord tells you then you don't have sin and don't sin, but only Jesus Christ lead the perfect life, which is why He had to come down and become the sacrifice for us. As for John he wrote "If we say that we have not sin" -- "We" is an interesting word - it includes the person saying or writing it in the group - and in this case John by writing "we" included himself in that group that don't but could say they have no sin. John therefore included himself in the group he was writing too and instructing to not deceive themselves by saying that have no sin and to not say they have not sinned. Was not John a Christian who had the Holy Spirit? Then a Christian who had the Holy Spirit should not be saying that have no sin, they should be confessing their sins so they get forgiveness and cleansing, and a Christian does not say they have not sinned, because then the word would not be in that Christian.

 

[Christ_empowered]

this goes to some fundamental Protestant Christian doctrines.

the 1st one that pops up in my mind... --imputed righteousness--

thankfully, when God looks at me (or...any Christian...), He doesn't see the sins and frailty; no, thanks to the -atonement- of Jesus Christ, He sees...

Christ's righteousness! Which, obviously, is -not- a license to sin and grin, but it does mean that I am forgiven (sins...mistakes...all, everything...), because Jesus' unjust crucifixion provides for the remission of our sins.

 

[Hopeful]

Your flesh and bones and the desires that come from them are something that evil spirit use to try and get you to sin!!

The devil can't use that which has been crucified with Christ.

Yes, the person who obeys Him pleases Him, and that requires that you listen to Him, but none of us listen to Him like we should!!

Speak for yourself.
You don't "know" all men.

Jesus did! He did and said only what the Father told Him, but we don't. We are counted as being righteous because we believe in Him (Jesus Christ), who because He does and says only what the Father tells Him, is called "The Word of God"

Because we believe in Him, we will listen to Him! Not perfectly, but our belief enables Him to work with us, something like He does with the angels in heaven that serve Him. Still, only God is good and not you or I.!! And still there are evil spirits who can communicate with you - or why else are we told to test the spirits and why are we told our battle is with the dark forces of this world.

If "not perfectly", then you aren't listening to Him.
And certainly not "in" Him.

So because we believe in Him, we do listen to Him at times, and He can get through to us when He needs to. And if He does we are willing to do what He (our Lord asks). That doesn't mean you are perfect by your great works, but rather that He counts you as being righteous. He no longer remembers your sins, but He pulls you into a relationship with Him. So you and Him talk. You reason with Him. You learn. You get better and thus improve. You are, if you believe in Him, a work in progress and specifically His work in progress.

Still those evil spirits, the dark forces you battle with, tempt you and that usually with the desires you have in the flesh!!

So then, a person shows up at our Christian church saying they have a sexual desire for other people of the same sex. Can we not understand what they are going through, since we have our desires and our battles with the dark forces of this world? And can we not turn them to, and even want them to talk to, Jesus Christ and get them talking with Him and reasoning with Him? After all, He helps us with our struggles doesn't He?

Yet if we don't have understanding, the type of understanding the comes from His voice, then we start to judge those people we think are not up to "our: standards. Instead of realizing that 'all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God' we judge them, make them feel unwelcome, instead of understood. And so it is that the church is thought to have a bunch of "self-righteous" people. Now the person thinking that might also be thinking it because of the battles they have with evil spirits, but we provided the support for the accusations made against us saints. And that because we deceive ourselves in to thinking that we don't have sin (those evil spirits) working in us. It is in us that we pick up the communication from spirits, because spirits communicate with our spirit and our spirit is found in us.

So if I deceive myself (and evil spirits want that to happen) into thinking that I am now perfect by my actions instead of by my faith, then I don't test the spirits. I don't seek the Lord Jesus Christ for reproof, correction, teachings, and to make myself better. Oh I may want some of those great feelings which I can pick up in my spirit. But if I didn't test the spirits, because I think I can not get something wrong, then where did the great feeling come from. You don't know, because you didn't test the spirits.

You can find that test also in 1 John, because it goes what John was trying to get across in that letter.

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

If anyone does not think they could be wrong, could sin, could get something wrong because they have the Holy Spirit, then they are not testing the spirits!!!! Yet this was written from John to Christians!!

1 Jn 4:4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

So is was the "beloved", the "little children" who "have overcome" that John was telling to test the spirit, and also those he was writing to in that letter which also had:

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John was not actually telling them they did not have the truth so were not the 'little children' but John was pointing out that we have battles with evil spirits. So we needed to be aware of the struggles, battles, and as Paul put it" the principle that evil is present in us.

Indeed, did we not read that even Jesus was taken out into the desert by the Holy Spirit to be tested and tempted by Satan. Satan tempted Him with food, because the flesh want and desires food and He was fasting. Satan tempted Him with positions - all the things He could see with His fleshy eyes. Satan tempted Him and tempted Him, and when that didn't work Satan back off and looked for a more opportune time, like when He was about to be grabbed and put on the cross. It was a temptation to prevent the pain His flesh would experience. That is to say that Satan uses the desire we have because God put us in our fleshy bodies to tempt us.

We know this, right? We talked to the Lord and it was explained to us, right? Well, if not that is ok. He can and will if we turn to Him. He gives us knowledge, wisdom, and understanding from His mouth, and it is not hard to understand that we all personally have desires of the flesh. I like to eat when I am hungry. I like to keep my home at a comfortable temperature. I like holding my wife, and I am happy the Lord gave me a woman to be my wife. It is not the God doesn't understand that He gave us our fleshy bodies, and in so doing He also gave us desires of the flesh. He can and does provide for those desires. But then, Satan uses them to harm us and keep us from seeking the Lord. Does not Satan and those dark forces which serve Him get people to pervert the desires if he can? Satan tempts us, with the desires of the flesh, and perverts them, but that does not mean God did not give us the flesh, the desires, and all that for a good reason.

Again, Paul wrote that he did the things he did not want. Paul found that there was a "thorn in his flesh" which was a messenger of Satan. Paul found the principle that evil was present in him. So Paul and John both understood that battle in them with the dark forces of this world. They did not deceive themselves, and that because Jesus Christ, the truth, talked to them, reproved them, taught them, and gave them wisdom and understanding.

None of the above means we should go about sinning and coming into agreement with those dark evil forces of this world. Don't sin. God does not tell you to sin, but the Lord could have you take a wife and even have children, which of course involves sex. Indeed, if the Lord Jesus Christ tells you anything, it is not a sin, because what God says is right, but test the spirits, resist the devil, and take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. Never-the-less, we find out that we often do the very thing we do not want, and that because of the principle that evil is present in us, just like Paul explain, just like John explain, and this is all recorded in the Scriptures!!

So listen to the Lord Jesus Christ, via His Holy Spirit, and do what He tells you! That is not a sin or sinning! And know that He grace and mercy is enough for you even though you find that you have a thorn (a messenger from Satan) in your flesh. Confess your sins and He is faithful to forgive you and cleanse you. That doesn't mean He removes the thorn in your flesh, but that He forgives you and no longer remember your sins. So He counts you as being righteous and perfect in His sight. You are now like a child of His who is learning, and learning from God is a good thing isn't it?

So because of all the above, you who are made perfect by the grace and mercy of God will not have an attitude that you are perfect and have already achieved the goal will you, but you take the attitude that you press on, don't you. That attitude we cause you to be understanding of all other people who also, like you, have their struggles with evil that is present in them also! Is it not enough that they believe in Him and so turn to Him, and want to please Him also? So it is the God put us all in the same boat - sinners in need of our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

If, as you say, I have been made perfect by the grace and mercy of God, why can't I display as much?
1 John 8 applies to those walking in sin.
Because they commit sin, they can't say they have no sin.
BUT..."if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST IS SON CLEANSETH US OF ALL SIN." (1 John 1:7)
Those walking in light are not the same audience as those walking in darkness.
Some of 1 John 1 applies to those in sin and some doesn't.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 don't apply to those walking in light.
Only to those walking in darkness.