Bible Study Battling evil desires

[for_his_glory]

Where does Noah deliver these "laws"?

I would only assume to all that lived close to him after the flood as he was not a traveling prophet, but was the first generation after the flood that God made a covenant with.

Like I said, go look it up as I do not have access to my archive as I am moving and only using my cell phone.

 

[Hopeful]

You are misunderstanding something. Take a close look at Rom 7:20 - don't just blow it off but actually look at it and ask the Lord for understanding!!!
Rom 7:20 If am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

He is referring to the old man/self that he wrote of in Rom 6.
The one destroyed in Rom 6:6.

Look - who does Paul say is doing the sinning??? It is sin which dwells in him!!!!!
It is a verse in the Scriptures - what ever other understanding you have, it must take into account that verse also or you understanding is not complete!

As Paul's references were of the old man, the one still in the flesh instead of walking in the Spirit, it is Paul's prior being that was sinning.

I will give you some help, if you want it, but you can seek the Lord and He will certainly help you with understanding and do it better than me.
Anyway - Paul is doing the very thing he does not want!! That is a fact of Scripture. However, Paul says that if he is then doing the very thing he doesn't want then he is not the one doing it!!!
Think about that before you go on. Paul is doing it but then he discovers that if he does want to do it then it can't be him doing it. So Paul considers this and now he finds out that "sin" which could be him because it doesn't think like him, is dwelling in him. Again, that is a fact of Scriptures, and you understanding needs to take that into account!

As Paul wrote later..."Who shall deliver me from this body of this death"?
A body he said was destroyed already in Rom 6:6.
Paul uses Rom 7 as a sort of bridge between the death of the flesh/old man, and the walk in the Spirit, new man of Rom 8.
It is a synopsis of his prior life of trying to live the law, and failing to do so.
Before, walking in the flesh and subject to the law of sin in his members.
After, walking in the Spirit and free of the law of sin and death.

So "sin" is a being other than Paul - a evil spirit or messenger from Satan - and he finds it effecting what he does!!
This goes with the thorn in the side of Paul, which we read about which is a messenger from Satan,
2 Cor 12:7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
The Lord has a reason for leaving evil around us for this time. One reason is to keep us from "exalting" ourselves, which is what comes across when we say we can not sin.
This all means that "sin" is an evil spirit - a messenger from Satan - that torments us and causes us to to the things we don't want. It is the battle, not with our flesh but in our flesh. This is the battle, with the dark forces, which is found in our flesh. We don't actually battle with the flesh but the evil spirit we can just call "sin" because the Lord speaks to us in parables and dark sayings. (Ps 73)

Has your version of Christianity freed you from the law of sin and death?
From sin?

So when John write in 1 Jn 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
He is saying that we have battles with "sin" those evil forces, then the truth is not in us. That is just saying that the truth is that we all have battles or struggles with those dark evil forces! That is the truth!!

John is writing alternating verses pertaining either to those walking in the light or walking in darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those walking in the light-God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 pertain to those walking in darkness-sin.
God is light, and there is no darkness in here.
Darkness is sin and there is no sin in God.

It we don't understand that we have a battle with the dark forces of this world, and that battle takes place inside us, then we are just deceiving ourselves! Clearly the Bible says over and over we do and even explains the reason for that is as Paul put it, "to keep me/us from exalting myself/ourselves."

Sadly, sometimes we misunderstand what God cleaning us up actually means. It means we are forgiven in His eyes and He does not remember our sins anymore, simply because we believe in Him. The thing is, that if we truly believe in Him we will be seeking Him for His help, and especially if we realize that we have those battle with sin in our flesh!! So we turn to Him, ask Him for help, listen to what He says and seek understanding from Him. He then "lights up" the situation, which is why Paul realized that he was dong the things he did not want. Also how he realized that he had a thorn which was a messenger from Satan. The Lord, which is our light, had shown him/ lite up those things/evil spirits!!

The key to your last paragraph were the words "in Him".
Those committing sin are not in Him, because there is no sin in Him.
Jesus came and conquered sin while in the flesh.
In Him, we share in that victory.
Outside of Him we would be vanquished.

The simple fact is that God has put before us both good and evil, and I am talking about the Holy Spirit and the angels serving the Lord in the Kingdom of God which is in our midst, and also Satan and the dark forces who are under him. One of the reasons they are call dark is that they want to keep you blind as to what is going on in the heavens or spiritual realm which is around us.

Isn't it those in the dark that commit sin?
What of those walking in the light?
Why would they still be serving sin if they are serving God?
We can only serve one master.

If a person is not aware of this battle between good and evil which occurs in our midst, then it is because they are in the dark and thus the spirit they are dealing with is not the Light/ the Spirit of Christ. Thus pride, evil spirits, take hold of them, lie to them, make them think they are perfect by deed instead of because forgiveness. That misunderstanding thus causes them to not seek the Lord for ways to improve, because a perfect person does not need help, forgiveness, reproof, teaching, or basically God in their lives.

But what of those walking in the light?
Doesn't the exact opposite apply to them?
There is no reason to ever leave the light.

 

[Hopeful]

He is referring to the old man/self that he wrote of in Rom 6.
The one destroyed in Rom 6:6.

As Paul's references were of the old man, the one still in the flesh instead of walking in the Spirit, it is Paul's prior being that was sinning.

As Paul wrote later..."Who shall deliver me from this body of this death"?
A body he said was destroyed already in Rom 6:6.
Paul uses Rom 7 as a sort of bridge between the death of the flesh/old man, and the walk in the Spirit, new man of Rom 8.
It is a synopsis of his prior life of trying to live the law, and failing to do so.
Before, walking in the flesh and subject to the law of sin in his members.
After, walking in the Spirit and free of the law of sin and death.

Has your version of Christianity freed you from the law of sin and death?
From sin?

John is writing alternating verses pertaining either to those walking in the light or walking in darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those walking in the light-God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 pertain to those walking in darkness-sin.
God is light, and there is no darkness in here.
Darkness is sin and there is no sin in God.

The key to your last paragraph were the words "in Him".
Those committing sin are not in Him, because there is no sin in Him.
Jesus came and conquered sin while in the flesh.
In Him, we share in that victory.
Outside of Him we would be vanquished.

Isn't it those in the dark that commit sin?
What of those walking in the light?
Why would they still be serving sin if they are serving God?
We can only serve one master.

But what of those walking in the light?
Doesn't the exact opposite apply to them?

There is no reason to ever leave the light.

Your posts are so long I needed two posts to reply...

So it is that John then wrote: 1:Jn 1-9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

ALL unrighteousness...so we can say we have no sin.
Now, walk in and stay in the light from here on out.

That is to say the cleansing come after we confess, and the person thinking they don't have battles/struggles with evil spirits "sin" don't confess it and seek help from the Lord. So He doesn't forgive them doing the things they do because evil spirit are getting them to do them, and they don't get cleansed from all that. And by looking at the Lord's prayer we see that we are to pray for forgiveness every time we pray - so it is not a one time ask for forgiveness but a daily thing. There is after all a specific day to hear from the Lord and that is "Today". So "Today you should have asked for forgiveness, according to the instructions given to us with the Lord's prayer.
So what about if we say on that very specific day, "Today" that we have not sinned, we thus make Him a liar and His word is not in us, which is the next verse

You have a firm grasp on the life of sinners.
But you don't seem to recognize the others who walk in the light.

1 Jn 1-10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Now I know you read verses about how in the Lord there is not sin, which is very true. It is true because He forgives you and does not remember your sins if you seek Him "Today" like He askes. But if "like He askes" then you prayed the Lord's prayer, which has a request for forgiveness and thus a recognition of doing the very things that you don't want. Not that it was you but sin in you. So He forgives you and doesn't remember them anymore. You are thus clean, according to Him and He thinking is all that counts!

All you post is an excuse to sin.
I'ld rather walk in the light, which is God.

Basically, there is an important part and concept which we have in Christianity, and that is that we are sinner in need of our Lord Jesus Christ. That part and concept keeps us seeking Him. Seeking Him by faith is counted to us as righteousness. It is not a reason to seek sin "evil spirits", but to seek Him. So this concept causes us to not only get forgiveness, but teaching from Him, wisdom from Him, understanding from Him, encouragement from Him, help from Him, because this concept that we are sinner needing help from Him means we seek Him over and over and over. The person thinking they have achieved perfection no longer has a reason to seek Him, get teaching from Him, wisdom from Him, understanding from Him, and encouragement from Him, because they have gone over to pride (those evil spirits who are keeping them in the dark).

You say we are saved, but then make excuses to return to slavery to sin.
I'll have none of it.

Of course that goes back what John wrote a few verses earlier:
1 Jn 1:5,6 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

Finally, the other side of your dark coin !

God being Light means He showed us that there is a battle with evil spirits! He also shows us the Kingdom of God, and the understanding that there are more with us than against us. You know that not only do we have battles with evil spirits like "anger", "jealously", "depression", and so much more like "perverted sexual desire" - but we also have more with us that serve the Lord to help us like those ministering angels like "Joy of the Lord", "Peace", "His mercy", and so many more like "Intercession"
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

If we are in the Light (our Lord Jesus Christ) we know that God has put before us both good and evil, because He has shown us (lite up the situation). If we are still not understanding about "sin" those evil messengers from Satan that are like a thorn in our flesh, and how to get help then we are still in the dark (under the influence of darkness)

That help can keep us free from sin, thanks be to God.

His faith didn't seem to be perfect though, because we read that Abram seem to start doubting God and decided to go into Sarah's maid and have sex to make the promised child. That resulted in Ishmael, not Isaac. Still later, when he heard the Lord tell him to sacrifice Isaac he went about doing what the Lord told him. Apparently he figured then that God could make a way, and that he just needed to listen to the Lord and obey. That is some pretty interesting faith that is was God who was speaking to him.

Of course his faith seem to waver at times because at one point Abraham doesn't tell a king that Sarah was his wife. He did believe in God enough to get him out of that problem - but God did. That must have been embarrassing for Abraham.

The fact is that we are like that. We believe so we listen to Him and believe - just like it is written that His sheep hear His voice. Yet Jesus also talked about John the Baptist being like a reed blowing in the wind!! And that even though He also said that nobody born of women was greater that John, though he would be the least in heaven.

So even the best of us people (John the Baptist) had the problem of something doubting in Jesus. Our faith blows in the wind! So what does that mean, blows in the wind?

It means we get blown around by the spiritual forces of this world. So it is that we wind up battling with evil desires. We believe in the Lord and try to follow Him and what He says - but evil forces like that snake in the garden come along and tell us something like "Did God really say" - and that causes us to doubt because we are like that Adam and Eve who came before us.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”

Doubt - is the main approach Satan uses. I mean that small voice of the Lord's is like thoughts coming from in us and those not always so clear or loud to us. So the snake comes afterwards and questions us as to whether that was really God who was speaking to us. No wonder God made is about hearing Him with faith, since the snake is trying to get us to doubt we can hear Him.

So it was that Adam and Eve ate of the tree which they were not supposed to and that messed up everything until Jesus took on flesh and did and said only what the Father told Him. He and He alone live a truly perfect life. John, the man Jesus said was the greatest of us, said that he was not worthy to ties the sandals of Jesus.

So how do we see ourselves. Do we think we are righteous because of our great thinking of our mind and our great actions based on our thinking? Of do we understand that we are 'imputed, attributed, ascribed, and reckon' as being righteous just because we hear from Him by faith?

How is our understanding?

I can't speak on your understanding, but I walk in the light, and there is no darkness in here...thanks be to God.
I have a new mind, and the Comforter to guide me away from sin.
He does a perfect job at it too.
BTW, I had to chop out the middle of your post, as it was tooo long for even this short reply.

 

[Link1983]

Your posts are so long I needed two posts to reply...

ALL unrighteousness...so we can say we have no sin.
Now, walk in and stay in the light from here on out.

You have a firm grasp on the life of sinners.
But you don't seem to recognize the others who walk in the light.

All you post is an excuse to sin.
I'ld rather walk in the light, which is God.

You say we are saved, but then make excuses to return to slavery to sin.
I'll have none of it.

Finally, the other side of your dark coin !

That help can keep us free from sin, thanks be to God.

I can't speak on your understanding, but I walk in the light, and there is no darkness in here...thanks be to God.
I have a new mind, and the Comforter to guide me away from sin.
He does a perfect job at it too.
BTW, I had to chop out the middle of your post, as it was tooo long for even this short reply.

I think it is good to focus more on the goal. To be free from sin.
This is and should be the goal of every believer.

God sees us believers without sin. Because He sees us in Christ.

We have to be aware of the fact that when a person is born again. The body doesn't get born again. And the body doesn't necessarily want what the heart of man wants.
Paul knew this and tries to explain the process of getting free from the will of the flesh.

We should focus on getting rid of all potential sin.
Yet we shouldn't be deceiving ourselves. Being too shure might be dangerous...
Stay humble, stay blessed..

 

[Link1983]

I'm sorry you feel that way.
Those "IN" Christ do not sin, as there is no sin in Christ.
They who have been washed by the blood of Christ are sanctified. (Atoned for, consecrated, set apart, blessed, made holy.)
Perhaps you were thinking of another word?

Do you understand what you are reading?
In Christ!
We don't sin in Christ.
But does that mean we don't sin?
Sin comes in our selves. There are two sides to this..
We are in Christ yet we are in the world.

 

[K2CHRIST]

You are misunderstanding something. Take a close look at Rom 7:20 - don't just blow it off but actually look at it and ask the Lord for understanding!!!
Rom 7:20 If am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

He is referring to the old man/self that he wrote of in Rom 6.
The one destroyed in Rom 6:6.

I went over this before - but look again

Rom 7:20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

When someone writes "I am doing" it is something they are doing not something they put away and so are not doing!!!

You keep wanting to throw away the verses you don't like to come up with a conclusion you do. Which is that you are doing everything right - righteous by dead and not forgiveness.

You make Paul out to be a liar!!

But let us discuss Rom 6:6 but to do that Rom 6:5 is also important:

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

and let's also bring up in 6:7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

Our old self was the one who did not hear from Jesus Christ. If you didn't hear from Him you couldn't get instructions from Him. That being the case you were getting your instructions from the powers, principalities, and dark spiritual forces of this world - demons!

If indeed a person is born again they hear His voice which comes to our spirit via His Holy Spirit - that is you hear the sound of the wind - and in words, because it is written that His words are spirit. His sheep hear His voice and He speaks many things, but as Lord He specifically gives us instructions which we as His servants try to carry out. So His sheep hear His voice, meaning that they serve Him.

So the old self could not and did not get instructions from Him but only could serve evil. That makes the old self - the one without His Spirit in their lives - a slave to evil spirits! I already have pointed out that evil spirits are often referred to as "sin", because they get people to sin.

Now, just because you now can hear from the Lord it doesn't mean that you can't hear from evil spirits - sin!! Hearing from them doesn't mean you are a slave to them! You can serve the Lord and still hear from sin!!!

You are missing that fact! It should be obvious. If I work at a certain store it doesn't mean that I can not hear from anyone other than the owner of that store - to think that is silly. So why do we conclude that just because we can now hear from Jesus Christ via His Spirit that we can hear from or be influenced by other spirits?

So if I worked for a store, say delivering packages, it is still possible that while making my deliveries someone could distract me. That distraction does not mean I am now a slave to the one distracting me. Indeed, because I have packages to deliver I should get distracted too much. If I am a newer employee, I might get distracted easier,

Some how you have read "we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection," and concluded that you are instead of "shall" also be.

Some how you have read "in order that our body of sin might be done away with" and have concluded that it reads "was done away with" You read what will be and say it was done, and read that Paul was doing and concluded that He was no longer doing.

We are a work in progress. Now the Lord, via the cross - which includes forgiveness of sins - has paid the full price of all our sins, and that has made it possible for us to seek Him and hear Him. That being the case we can now hear from Him and so can serve Him. That means we are not slaves to those evil spirits, but not being slaves does not mean they are not around so that they can't distract us. They still try to do that. They even succeed but that doesn't mean we are going to follow them, Because we believe we are going to keep turning back to the Lord - thereby proving we are not a slave to sin.

So the believer has been freed from being a slave to sin 'evil spirits', but not from the presence of sin' evil spirits!!

One does not mean the other. Perhaps some made a jump in logic - and isn't that why Paul, after explaining that we have been set free from sin, went back and explained that while no longer slaves, sin was still present and having an effect on us.

People - not having to do what evil spirits say, does not mean you can't hear from them, or that they won't still try and mess you up. They can still tempt you, they just can't control you. They can still try and mess with you, but you can always turn back to the Lord knowing your help comes from above.

The Lord did not as of yet, throw Satan in the lake of fire. You still have to test the spirits. You still have to be aware that sin is present and trying to tempt you, mess with you, distract you, discourage you, and so forth. You however can turn to the Lord and the Kingdom of God and get help, instruction, teachings, encouragement and more from Him, because you are no longer a slave to sin. The cross made that possible.

All that is what Paul was explaining, but you should read your entire Bible, knowing that it was all written for you!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Your posts are so long I needed two posts to reply...

ALL unrighteousness...so we can say we have no sin.
Now, walk in and stay in the light from here on out.

You have a firm grasp on the life of sinners.
But you don't seem to recognize the others who walk in the light.

All you post is an excuse to sin.
I'ld rather walk in the light, which is God.

You say we are saved, but then make excuses to return to slavery to sin.
I'll have none of it.

Finally, the other side of your dark coin !

That help can keep us free from sin, thanks be to God.

I can't speak on your understanding, but I walk in the light, and there is no darkness in here...thanks be to God.
I have a new mind, and the Comforter to guide me away from sin.
He does a perfect job at it too.
BTW, I had to chop out the middle of your post, as it was tooo long for even this short reply.

Yeah - this morning while in the shower the Lord was telling me that I indeed write too long. It is actually written that you can tell a fool by the numbers of his words, but also that the Lord uses the foolish things of this world. Still, it is not me listening to the Lord that is wrong. Thus who thinks righteousness is achieve by doing what's right in their own mind!!

Understanding the evil spirits are around and indeed their is a principle that evil is present inside you, is not an excuse to sin, it is an understanding that comes with talking with the Lord!!

As Christians, our righteousness does not come from our doing the right thing but simply because we believe in Jesus Christ!! We are "reckon" as being righteous because we listen to Him! If we hear Him, like Abram, and thus believe, that is counted as righteousness to us!!

He has forgiven us all our sins. That is not a reason to keep sinning, but a reason to seek Him and listen to Him. Yet the person thinking that evil spirit are not about and don't know the evil is even present in them do not know the Lord because they are living a lie! The truth is not in them, and they don't see the Light.

Evil is present! We still have battles and struggles. Everyone does - the believer and the non-believer. The non-believer is a slave to evil and darkness. That is to say they can't see their problem, because darkness tells them they don't have a problem, struggle, battle.

Pride is a great example of that problem/evil spirit. Pride tells your that you know it all, and you are always right. It is a very evil spirit, and you are a slave to it unless you seek the Lord Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ reproves those He loves and He loves those who listen to Him.

So if you listen to Him you get reproof, like you are writing too long. But you also get instructions and encouragement. He might still tell you to write to someone who is full of Pride and thus not seeking Him. He might also remind you that, although you write too long it is not as many words as Paul wrote, and not as many words as are in the Bible, and He would not need to keep having you writing to them if they had believed all the words in the Bible.

Paul wrote that you don't have to be a slave to sin - those evil spirits! Being a slave means having to do what someone else (perhaps and evil spirit) says! Paul explained that you can instead seek Jesus Christ and do what He says. He wants to help people, with their problems, struggles, and the present of evil. But He has not yet removed evil spirits in this world, nor even in you! He just makes is possible to believe and thus listen to Him. That makes you clean, because that is reckon as righteousness you!

Now if every person listened to Him Paul would not have gotten the instruction to write. Yet I would write at long as Paul did to explain that we need to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. I apologize if I went to long, but better take the time to explain than to let someone stay in darkness.

Pride will make a person think they can't be doing something wrong, which was not what Paul wrote. It will have you believing that you have not sin, which is what John wrote about. It will indeed blind you to the struggles and battles you have with those evil forces in this world. We don't have to be a slave to Pride! We can seek Jesus Christ who will humble you and make you aware that you, though counted as perfect by Him still have things to learn! Still, what if a person doesn't practice listening and has become dull of hearing???

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

BTW the "we" above means the Lord and someone He sends. We have much to say and it is hard to explain sometimes.

 

[K2CHRIST]

This thread, which I wound up writing sooooo much on started as a thread about how we make feel at church - specifically about how people with issues, such as desiring people of the opposite sex, can feel unwelcome at church.

The Lord, in the Bible is seen making people with issued feel very comfortable around Him. If you indeed talk to Him you will find that He is still that way. That didn't mean that He was then or is now approving of our sinful ways. We need to stop sinning. Still, He was and still is understanding, unlike the Pharisees were, and if you are like that you still are.

What I am writing is not, I repeat not, an endorsement to go and sin. Stop that. Still we have battles with the dark spiritual forces of this world. So if you don't see it, let me plainly say that the post I have written are about discernment of spirits!!

The Pharisees, with our their religion, had lost the battle with discernment of spirits! Jesus explain that the devil was their father. He doesn't want that. Indeed "sin" is also a name used for evil spirits in the Bible. Ps 78 explains that He talks to us in parables and dark sayings, and one of the way He does that is by attaching names to spiritual beings that describe what the do. "Sin" therefore is a name for evil spirits which get you to sin. In the same way the Christ goes by many names, like Jesus, which means God's salvation, or "The Word of God" which means He talks to us with the words God has for us personally.

So if you read something about being a slave to "sin" you should understand that you can not a slave to an action but to a being, and in this case a being that is getting you to sin so the evil spirit is named sin! An evil spirit of "sin" I that seems to include all evil spirit, can seek to cause you to rebel against God in many ways. Encouraging you to pervert your sexual drive with God gave you, in a way that causes a person to desire someone of the opposite sex is just one way!!

The Pharisees did not have that problem. Their father which Jesus said was the devil got them into leaning on their own understanding of God, as opposed to actually seeking Him and talking to Him. Being the light of this world, He pointed that out to them when they decided to talk to Him.

It is written in the Bible that we are not to lean on our on understanding, but to seek the Lord.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

Now to trust in the Lord and not lean on my understanding I have to find out what His understanding is! Reading the Bible is very helpful, but if I read it I see that understanding come from His mouth, so to get understanding I have to seek Him, and listen to what He says.

Pro 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Pro 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.

There was something I went back and forth with, and it had to do with whether a person who knows the Lord has sin?

Again, sin is an evil being that tries to get you to sin, which would be a messenger of Satan. That is to say, "Sin" is not just an action we do, but also those dark forces with battle with. We have the battle, and the battle really takes place inside us. We should understand that. The person trying to please the Lord but still has a strong sexual desire for others of the same sex will probably understand that better that the Pharisees did. The Pharisees could not see how they were wrong! The person with the sexual desire for those of the opposite sex also might not see how they are wrong, but I would think they are more like to. A murderer might even be more like to see how they are wrong after the kill, but they might not see that either. To really find out where we are wrong we need to go and reason with the Lord! It is written that He reproves those He loves. So if you are wrong and seek Him He will let you know, and if you know Him you know He is very cleaver about how He tells you that you are wrong.

We all have our issues, our battle, our need for the Lord Jesus Christ. It is written that all have sinned. It is also written that if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. Therefore talking to the Lord gives you discernment of spirits. The more you practice listening to Him the better you get at discerning good from evil, and that because you have spent more time with Him being reproved!!

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

With that in mine, my purpose that He told me is to preach the Word meaning that He is the Word of God, in that we need to listen to Him. If you do, He will reprove you, and will continue to reprove you, help you, give you understanding, teach you, instruct you, and so on.

After say 20 years of this, it will become clearer to you that it is not you who is righteous, but Him who is righteous. However, because you are seeking Him and being taught, reproved, instructed, and so on, He counts the fact that you believe in Him as righteousness to you. After all, learning is not wrong is it?

 

[Hopeful]

I think it is good to focus more on the goal. To be free from sin.
This is and should be the goal of every believer.

Agreed, and thankfully achievable instantly at our repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Results: An ex-sinner who has been cleansed of past sin by the blood of Christ and fit for use as the temple of the Holy Ghost.

God sees us believers without sin. Because He sees us in Christ.

We have to be aware of the fact that when a person is born again. The body doesn't get born again. And the body doesn't necessarily want what the heart of man wants.
Paul knew this and tries to explain the process of getting free from the will of the flesh.

We should focus on getting rid of all potential sin.
Yet we shouldn't be deceiving ourselves. Being too shure might be dangerous...
Stay humble, stay blessed..

Your view of rebirth is very different from mine.

 

[Hopeful]

Do you understand what you are reading?
In Christ!
We don't sin in Christ.
But does that mean we don't sin?

Then you're not in Christ...right?

Sin comes in our selves. There are two sides to this..
We are in Christ yet we are in the world.

I left "this" world when I was reborn.
What remains is His vessel, as per Gal 2:20..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

 

[Hopeful]

You are misunderstanding something. Take a close look at Rom 7:20 - don't just blow it off but actually look at it and ask the Lord for understanding!!!
Rom 7:20 If am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
I went over this before - but look again

Just because you "went over it" doesn't make it true.
You are attempting to insert OT "being" or "life" into NT Christianity.
Paul's OT troubles didn't follow Him into the NT.

But let us discuss Rom 6:6 but to do that Rom 6:5 is also important:
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
and let's also bring up in 6:7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

Our old self was the one who did not hear from Jesus Christ. If you didn't hear from Him you couldn't get instructions from Him. That being the case you were getting your instructions from the powers, principalities, and dark spiritual forces of this world - demons!

Where is "hearing from Him" mentioned in the Rom 6 verses?
I will insert what the KJV bible says so we are on the same page:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Some how you have read "we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection," and concluded that you are instead of "shall" also be.
Some how you have read "in order that our body of sin might be done away with" and have concluded that it reads "was done away with" You read what will be and say it was done, and read that Paul was doing and concluded that He was no longer doing.

I was buried with Him and raised with Him: just as Rom 6:5-6 say.
How come you can't say the same thing?
I feel that the version of scripture you are citing from has been corrupted.

 

[Link1983]

Agreed, and thankfully achievable instantly at our repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Results: An ex-sinner who has been cleansed of past sin by the blood of Christ and fit for use as the temple of the Holy Ghost.

Your view of rebirth is very different from mine.

How so? ??
If I would be wrong I would want to be corrected.

 

[Link1983]

Then you're not in Christ...right?

I left "this" world when I was reborn.
What remains is His vessel, as per Gal 2:20..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

I believe we are able to sin even after being saved.
And we may even sin and still be I Christ.

The reason for this is that fact that although we are saved in our spirit. Our body is not.

 

[Hopeful]

How so? ??
If I would be wrong I would want to be corrected.

In post #64 you wrote this..."We have to be aware of the fact that when a person is born again. The body doesn't get born again. And the body doesn't necessarily want what the heart of man wants.
Paul knew this and tries to explain the process of getting free from the will of the flesh."
Why would Paul write about getting free from the will of the flesh when he had written of how to do so in Rom 6?
The body is part of what is born again.
New creatures, with new bodies raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
All of the old has been killed and buried with Christ when we were water baptized into His death, burial, and resurrection from the dead.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

What your body may want is always either over-ruled or facilitated by the mind anyway, so don't give the skin and bones so much credit.
It is the mind that controls your actions, and we have a new mind.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

I believe we are able to sin even after being saved.

Our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement, then we can say "we are saved".
We "can" commit sin after conversion, but it would just show that the conversion was a lie.

And we may even sin and still be I Christ.

That would mean there is sin in Christ.
If there is sin in us, and we are in Christ, we would do what even the devil failed to do.
Defile the Son of God.

The reason for this is that fact that although we are saved in our spirit. Our body is not.

Your mind controls the body, not the other way around.
Your hand can't reach into that open cash drawer at the store without your mind's facilitation.

Have you ever fasted?
Which part of you was in control then?

 

[Link1983]

In post #64 you wrote this..."We have to be aware of the fact that when a person is born again. The body doesn't get born again. And the body doesn't necessarily want what the heart of man wants.
Paul knew this and tries to explain the process of getting free from the will of the flesh."
Why would Paul write about getting free from the will of the flesh when he had written of how to do so in Rom 6?
The body is part of what is born again.
New creatures, with new bodies raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
All of the old has been killed and buried with Christ when we were water baptized into His death, burial, and resurrection from the dead.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

What your body may want is always either over-ruled or facilitated by the mind anyway, so don't give the skin and bones so much credit.
It is the mind that controls your actions, and we have a new mind.
Thanks be to God.

Oh but i agree completely.
Like Paul said; "I keep my body under"
And we are too do the same. It is definitely possible. Yet might not always be quite as simple as just saying so..
Still i do believe it is possible. By a right understanding and acting on the Word!

I do not disagree with you at all sir..

 

[Link1983]

Our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement, then we can say "we are saved".
We "can" commit sin after conversion, but it would just show that the conversion was a lie.

That would mean there is sin in Christ.
If there is sin in us, and we are in Christ, we would do what even the devil failed to do.
Defile the Son of God.

Your mind controls the body, not the other way around.
Your hand can't reach into that open cash drawer at the store without your mind's facilitation.

Have you ever fasted?
Which part of you was in control then?

No.. there is a difference between our position in Christ and how much we realize and understand our position in Him.
No.. our salvation is certain and not something to work on.
There is no sin in Christ. You know that! You ought to understand correctly my friend.
Yes! The mind controls the body, and the Spirit controls the mind.
I have fasted..
Made me weak. But therein lies my strength..

 

[Link1983]

Our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement, then we can say "we are saved".
We "can" commit sin after conversion, but it would just show that the conversion was a lie.

That would mean there is sin in Christ.
If there is sin in us, and we are in Christ, we would do what even the devil failed to do.
Defile the Son of God.

Your mind controls the body, not the other way around.
Your hand can't reach into that open cash drawer at the store without your mind's facilitation.

Have you ever fasted?
Which part of you was in control then?

Answer me this Hopeful; who is John here speaking to?

My little children (believers, dear ones), I am writing you these things so that you will not sin and violate God’s law. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous [the upright, the just One, who conforms to the Father’s will in every way—purpose, thought, and action]. 1 John 2:1

 

[Link1983]

Our salvation won't be assured till after the day of judgement, then we can say "we are saved".
We "can" commit sin after conversion, but it would just show that the conversion was a lie.

That would mean there is sin in Christ.
If there is sin in us, and we are in Christ, we would do what even the devil failed to do.
Defile the Son of God.

Your mind controls the body, not the other way around.
Your hand can't reach into that open cash drawer at the store without your mind's facilitation.

Have you ever fasted?
Which part of you was in control then?

To be clear on sin. A believer can not sin in his spirit. But in mind and body we can..
We should understand the difference between the three, and then learn how to fight the only fight we as Christians have..
The good fight of faith! Amen
What a privilege.

Salvation is made complete the very second you and i got saved..

God bless you and everyone here!

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm sorry you feel that way.
Those "IN" Christ do not sin, as there is no sin in Christ.
They who have been washed by the blood of Christ are sanctified. (Atoned for, consecrated, set apart, blessed, made holy.)
Perhaps you were thinking of another word?

Hi Hopeful,,,,
Could you explain 1 John 1:8 ?

If the Word tells us to confess our sins,,,doesn't this mean we have sin? (1 John 1:9)