Bible Study Battling evil desires

[Hopeful]

If anyone thinks some verse provide an opposite path than other verses they lack understanding!!!

How can verses applying to those in darkness apply to those in the light?

God does not tell you one thing and then another thing, so that one thing doesn't go with the other thing. All the Scriptures go together!! You are throwing out some Scriptures to get to the conclusion you have made instead of taking it to the Lord to get understanding about how they all go together!

Let's take verses 5-10 - because they all go together

This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

The above is all meant to turn you to Jesus Christ!

First - God is light!!

A light is something that lets you see what is going on around you!! So He make you aware of what is going on around you!!

Of course darkness cause us to not see what is going on around us. So if we have the light we don't miss the things going on around us!

So if we walk with Him and have fellowship with Him we see what is happening around us and thus practice the "Truth" It is nice to have fellowship with those aware of the good and evil which is going on, but some don't see the evil, even in themselves.

There is some wisdom that explains to fix a problem you must first be aware of it!!! Thus it is important that we know about good and evil to avoid the evil! And Jesus helps us with this! He shows us what problems we have so that He can help us fix them! That is how you get cleaned up.

So it is that we see that verse:" If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

That is obvious since because if we have the light He has shown us that principle which Paul wrote about: "the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good."

That being aware of our sins (being in the Light) causes us to confess our sins, and so with that He forgives us, which makes us clean is His sight. And we know that we should be praying "forgive us our debts, every time we come before God and pray the Lord's prayer. Which is every day, right
The cleansing us meant we are righteous in His sight, not that He removes all the evil spirit and dark forces in this world, which we find tempting us inside!

So Paul and John knew about evil being with them! Yet those still in the darkness don't see that. They deceive themselves because they are not in the Light (Jesus Christ) and so don't have the truth (Jesus Christ) in them.

They don't have the Light (verse 5) so they can not see that God has put before them both good and evil, just like He said He had. They tend to chase off fellowship with one another, which went back to the problem seen in the OP from the original thread. (verse 6) Like the Pharisees they have trouble understanding how Jesus could deal with sinners. (verse 7). They deceive themselves by telling themselves they don't have sin, "the principle that evil is present in" us), the ones "who wants to do good." (verse 8) So they don't confess their sins, and not forgivens, and thus are not cleansed (verse 9) And so they say they have not sinned and are making Him a liar, and all that because He word is not in them (verse 10)

All those verse cover step by step by step that God is light and the truth, which means that He shows us the evil going on even in us, which is the truth, which is the principle that evil is present in us. If they don't see the light and know the truth, then they have trouble dealing with others, because we come off as self-righteous instead of righteous because He forgives them. They don't even know that they sin so they don't confess them and thus don't get forgiven. They wind up saying that we have not sinned and thus make Him a liar and all that because His word is not in them.

 

[Link1983]

My goal is to encourage people to be baptized in water as well as be baptized with the Holy Spirit.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?



JLB

Don't everyone receive? Once they believe i mean..
Shalom JLB

 

[Hopeful]

• The Spirit baptizes us into Christ when we are born again.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Are you certain this "body" is Christ and not the church?
If you were correct, Rom 6:3-7 is wrong.
I myself read 1 Cor 12:13 in tandem with 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
"AND" by the the Spirit of our God.
Water baptism (in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins), comes before the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38), in every case but Cornelius'.

LJB:
Man baptizes us in water.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11
Three distinct and different baptisms with three distinct and different baptizers.

I still only see the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (and into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection) and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The first is done by men and the second by God.

Paul says it this way —
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

"Immersion", whelmed, dipped.

 

[Hopeful]

this goes to some fundamental Protestant Christian doctrines.

the 1st one that pops up in my mind... --imputed righteousness--

thankfully, when God looks at me (or...any Christian...), He doesn't see the sins and frailty; no, thanks to the -atonement- of Jesus Christ, He sees...

Christ's righteousness! Which, obviously, is -not- a license to sin and grin, but it does mean that I am forgiven (sins...mistakes...all, everything...), because Jesus' unjust crucifixion provides for the remission of our sins.

Protestant doctrines for sure.
I am a Christian though.
His "imputed" righteous really did make me righteous.

 

[Link1983]

Are you certain this "body" is Christ and not the church?
If you were correct, Rom 6:3-7 is wrong.
I myself read 1 Cor 12:13 in tandem with 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
"AND" by the the Spirit of our God.
Water baptism (in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins), comes before the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38), in every case but Cornelius'.

LJB:
Man baptizes us in water.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

I still only see the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (and into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection) and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The first is done by men and the second by God.

"Immersion", whelmed, dipped.

Thinking loudly; isn't the body of Christ, psynonym with the church?
It's the same thing.
Even in spirit and soul and body..

Shalom bro.

 

[Hopeful]

Thinking loudly; isn't the body of Christ, psynonym with the church?
It's the same thing.
Even in spirit and soul and body..

Shalom bro.

Yes.
But each has its own "entry" mechanism.
As one apart from the other is useless, both must be implemented to join with Christ and with His church.
One is done by men and God does the other afterwards.

I find that those using 1 Cor 12:13 don't usually have any regard for the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
One is commanded, (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19), and the other is God's reward.
We need both.

 

[JLB]

Are you certain this "body" is Christ and not the church?

Why would the Spirit baptize us into some other body than Christ?

 

[stovebolts]

K2CHRIST
Title changed

 

[K2CHRIST]

this goes to some fundamental Protestant Christian doctrines.

the 1st one that pops up in my mind... --imputed righteousness--

thankfully, when God looks at me (or...any Christian...), He doesn't see the sins and frailty; no, thanks to the -atonement- of Jesus Christ, He sees...

Christ's righteousness! Which, obviously, is -not- a license to sin and grin, but it does mean that I am forgiven (sins...mistakes...all, everything...), because Jesus' unjust crucifixion provides for the remission of our sins.

I like what you post. I see that not everyone does, and some make judgements about you - but there is so much wisdom and understanding in the above post that it has to come from the Lord and your relationship with Him.

The "pop u in my mind" is often a perfect description of how it happens. You see it with the prophets of old who you write "The word of the Lord came to me saying..." He often just suddenly comes to us saying things and that feels alot like something just pops us in our minds. In fact, I used to know a wonderful older Christian lady who called it popcorn, because as she explain 'The Lord just kind of pop things into her 'corn', meaning her head.' Paul might have called it our heart, but our heart doesn't really do the processing of what the Holy Spirit tells our spirit.

And you are so right that He doesn't see the sins. We read in Hebrews the the Lord chooses not to remember our sins anymore. He just chose to not remember!

Heb 8:12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

Heb 10:17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

The cross provided a sacrifice, but when it comes down to it, God just decided to be merciful and not remember our sins!!

Of course, that being the case it doesn't mean they are still not there, they didn't happen or happen, or that a person might not struggle with certain things/beings in their lives.

And you also have it right by writing "Which, obviously, is -not- a license to sin and grin,"

In fact, if I indeed understand the mercy that He gives me, by not remembering my sins, doesn't that understanding lead to a love for Him and then a greater desire in me to NOT sin, because I now love Him?

Yes- a love for Him does lead to us not wanting to displease Him and so a greater effort to do what He says instead of giving into sin (that snake in the garden and those following Satan)

And all that means He has forgiven me. God so love the world that He gave us His Son, Jesus Christ. We have Jesus, because He sent His Holy Spirit to enable our spirit to communicate with His spirit. Of course His Spirit, being One with God, does not remember our sins and call us on them. But His Spirit, being the Spirit of light surely made us aware of the darkness (sin, evil spirits, Satan and those following that serpent of old) which has always being trying to get us to do what God said not to do.

So if anyone says that have the Holy Spirit and does not know about the spiritual realm and what is going on around them, then it is obvious that they don't have the Spirit of light! Light makes us see what is going on around us, and their is a battle/struggle that we have, but it is not with flesh and blood but with those evil spirits which make up the powers, principalities, and dark spiritual forces of this world.

And perhaps my favorite part of the above post is the " unjust crucifixion provides for the remission of our sins."

It says that we need to take up our cross, be crucified in Christ. What does that mean. It means that the world loves to judge us because of the battle/struggle with evil forces (not the flesh as some presume). They do that because they don't understand the battle - while in our flesh - is not with the flesh! The Light of this world (Jesus Christ) would have explained this to them if they listened to Him. After all understanding from from His mouth (Prov 2:6)

The flesh then is the battle ground and not the enemy!!!!

A failure to understand that means we judge the person coming to church with a struggle with sin (the evil forces). That judgement is not helping them it is excluding them. Thus it is just crucifying them!!

So what do you tell the person coming to your church with a sexual desire for others of the same sex. After all, this thread came out of another thread with that issue! Do you tell them they are not wanted at your church? Do you accuse them of their sins? Do you tell them that they are not of God since you know they are not perfect, like us?
Do you just make them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome?

All that shows is that someone is not dealing with the Light (Jesus Christ). It shows they don't understand that He just choose to forgive them and not remember their sins any more. It shows that they are dealing with another spirit and not the Holy Spirit of God.

Now I wrote "we" above, because we can all miss the work of sin (evil spirits) in our lives. We all find that we do the very thing we don't want to do. We don't want to make people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome in our churches, do we. So we who want to do good find ourselves doing the very thing we don't want to do. Of course if I want them to be welcome then I am doing the very thing I don't want, so that is not me is it. How is my discernment of spirits?

OH - that is what Paul wrote about!

Rom 7: 16 -21 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

The fact is that we get things wrong, and all unrighteousness is sin. It is also a fact that we are supposed to trying to become like our Lord Jesus Christ. Still, we who are perfect in His eyes, because He simply choose to see us that way, are not to take the attitude that we have achieved. WE are supposed to be like Him and choose not to remember their sins!

Ok - we don't get that perfect at times. We sin. We need His help; and we do things wrong.

It is a good thing we have that thing that pops up in our head " --imputed righteousness--"

Great post - 'Christ-empowered'.

 

[Hospes]

I struggle with the idea that I could ever get a glimpse of God's transcendent holiness and then look at myself and declare myself free of the distortions caused by sin and my propensity to not value and adore God in the way He richly deserves. To know how far I fall short I need only see a smidgen of the glory of God.

The paradox is that though I see plenty of evidence in myself that I am not righteous, God has declared I am righteous and pure in Christ. In Acts 10:9-16, Peter saw all the unclean animals - animals that even the scripture declares unclean - and then was told by God that he was not to call unclean what God has declared clean. I see Peter's dilemma as my own: in the light of God's glory, I see all too well my uncleanliness, and yet I am told via the Gospel that the blood of Christ has made me totally acceptable to God. This is one of the beautiful mysteries of the Gospel.

Due to the GospeI I have grown to be able to, in my left hand, look unflinchingly at my own sinfulness, hate it, and want nothing more than to put it to death. While in my right hand, I hold the joy-flooding truth that, regardless of what I see in my left hand, I am fully known and fully accepted by my supremely holy God and Father. What I have in my right hand was purchased for me by the cross of Jesus Christ. This leaves me marveling at such great salvation!

I believe the Christian lives a wonderful paradox.

Hope that makes sense! It was fun to write it!

 

[for_his_glory]

Me either.

Then Rom 3:20 is wrong.
I don't see a Noahic law in the bible.
Where do you see that?

You will find seven of them in the ten commandments. Type Noahic laws in your search engine. Using my phone right now so can't list them.

 

[Hopeful]

Why would the Spirit baptize us into some other body than Christ?

Because water baptism already did that job. (Rom 6:3-7)
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is God's gift, given later.
Just as Peter presented in Acts 2:38...Repentance, (water) baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

I like what you post. I see that not everyone does, and some make judgements about you - but there is so much wisdom and understanding in the above post that it has to come from the Lord and your relationship with Him.

The "pop u in my mind" is often a perfect description of how it happens. You see it with the prophets of old who you write "The word of the Lord came to me saying..." He often just suddenly comes to us saying things and that feels alot like something just pops us in our minds. In fact, I used to know a wonderful older Christian lady who called it popcorn, because as she explain 'The Lord just kind of pop things into her 'corn', meaning her head.' Paul might have called it our heart, but our heart doesn't really do the processing of what the Holy Spirit tells our spirit.

And you are so right that He doesn't see the sins. We read in Hebrews the the Lord chooses not to remember our sins anymore. He just chose to not remember!

Heb 8:12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

Heb 10:17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

The cross provided a sacrifice, but when it comes down to it, God just decided to be merciful and not remember our sins!!

Of course, that being the case it doesn't mean they are still not there, they didn't happen or happen, or that a person might not struggle with certain things/beings in their lives.

And you also have it right by writing "Which, obviously, is -not- a license to sin and grin,"

In fact, if I indeed understand the mercy that He gives me, by not remembering my sins, doesn't that understanding lead to a love for Him and then a greater desire in me to NOT sin, because I now love Him?

Yes- a love for Him does lead to us not wanting to displease Him and so a greater effort to do what He says instead of giving into sin (that snake in the garden and those following Satan)

And all that means He has forgiven me. God so love the world that He gave us His Son, Jesus Christ. We have Jesus, because He sent His Holy Spirit to enable our spirit to communicate with His spirit. Of course His Spirit, being One with God, does not remember our sins and call us on them. But His Spirit, being the Spirit of light surely made us aware of the darkness (sin, evil spirits, Satan and those following that serpent of old) which has always being trying to get us to do what God said not to do.

So if anyone says that have the Holy Spirit and does not know about the spiritual realm and what is going on around them, then it is obvious that they don't have the Spirit of light! Light makes us see what is going on around us, and their is a battle/struggle that we have, but it is not with flesh and blood but with those evil spirits which make up the powers, principalities, and dark spiritual forces of this world.

And perhaps my favorite part of the above post is the " unjust crucifixion provides for the remission of our sins."

It says that we need to take up our cross, be crucified in Christ. What does that mean. It means that the world loves to judge us because of the battle/struggle with evil forces (not the flesh as some presume). They do that because they don't understand the battle - while in our flesh - is not with the flesh! The Light of this world (Jesus Christ) would have explained this to them if they listened to Him. After all understanding from from His mouth (Prov 2:6)

The flesh then is the battle ground and not the enemy!!!!

A failure to understand that means we judge the person coming to church with a struggle with sin (the evil forces). That judgement is not helping them it is excluding them. Thus it is just crucifying them!!

So what do you tell the person coming to your church with a sexual desire for others of the same sex. After all, this thread came out of another thread with that issue! Do you tell them they are not wanted at your church? Do you accuse them of their sins? Do you tell them that they are not of God since you know they are not perfect, like us?
Do you just make them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome?

All that shows is that someone is not dealing with the Light (Jesus Christ). It shows they don't understand that He just choose to forgive them and not remember their sins any more. It shows that they are dealing with another spirit and not the Holy Spirit of God.

Now I wrote "we" above, because we can all miss the work of sin (evil spirits) in our lives. We all find that we do the very thing we don't want to do. We don't want to make people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome in our churches, do we. So we who want to do good find ourselves doing the very thing we don't want to do. Of course if I want them to be welcome then I am doing the very thing I don't want, so that is not me is it. How is my discernment of spirits?

OH - that is what Paul wrote about!

Rom 7: 16 -21 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

The fact is that we get things wrong, and all unrighteousness is sin. It is also a fact that we are supposed to trying to become like our Lord Jesus Christ. Still, we who are perfect in His eyes, because He simply choose to see us that way, are not to take the attitude that we have achieved. WE are supposed to be like Him and choose not to remember their sins!

Ok - we don't get that perfect at times. We sin. We need His help; and we do things wrong.

It is a good thing we have that thing that pops up in our head " --imputed righteousness--"

Great post - 'Christ-empowered'.

So you can serve God and sin at the same time?
Jesus doesn't agree with that.

 

[Hopeful]

You will find seven of them in the ten commandments. Type Noahic laws in your search engine. Using my phone right now so can't list them.

Where does Noah deliver these "laws"?

 

[JLB]

Because water baptism already did that job. (Rom 6:3-7)

What body does the Spirit baptize us into if not the body of Christ?


For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13


JLB

 

[K2CHRIST]

So you can serve God and sin at the same time?
Jesus doesn't agree with that.

You are misunderstanding something. Take a close look at Rom 7:20 - don't just blow it off but actually look at it and ask the Lord for understanding!!!

Rom 7:20 If am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Look - who does Paul say is doing the sinning??? It is sin which dwells in him!!!!!

It is a verse in the Scriptures - what ever other understanding you have, it must take into account that verse also or you understanding is not complete!

I will give you some help, if you want it, but you can seek the Lord and He will certainly help you with understanding and do it better than me.

Anyway - Paul is doing the very thing he does not want!! That is a fact of Scripture. However, Paul says that if he is then doing the very thing he doesn't want then he is not the one doing it!!!

Think about that before you go on. Paul is doing it but then he discovers that if he does want to do it then it can't be him doing it. So Paul considers this and now he finds out that "sin" which could be him because it doesn't think like him, is dwelling in him. Again, that is a fact of Scriptures, and you understanding needs to take that into account!

So "sin" is a being other than Paul - a evil spirit or messenger from Satan - and he finds it effecting what he does!!

This goes with the thorn in the side of Paul, which we read about which is a messenger from Satan,

2 Cor 12:7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!

The Lord has a reason for leaving evil around us for this time. One reason is to keep us from "exalting" ourselves, which is what comes across when we say we can not sin.

This all means that "sin" is an evil spirit - a messenger from Satan - that torments us and causes us to to the things we don't want. It is the battle, not with our flesh but in our flesh. This is the battle, with the dark forces, which is found in our flesh. We don't actually battle with the flesh but the evil spirit we can just call "sin" because the Lord speaks to us in parables and dark sayings. (Ps 73)

So when John write in 1 Jn 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
He is saying that we have battles with "sin" those evil forces, then the truth is not in us. That is just saying that the truth is that we all have battles or struggles with those dark evil forces! That is the truth!!

It we don't understand that we have a battle with the dark forces of this world, and that battle takes place inside us, then we are just deceiving ourselves! Clearly the Bible says over and over we do and even explains the reason for that is as Paul put it, "to keep me/us from exalting myself/ourselves."

Sadly, sometimes we misunderstand what God cleaning us up actually means. It means we are forgiven in His eyes and He does not remember our sins anymore, simply because we believe in Him. The thing is, that if we truly believe in Him we will be seeking Him for His help, and especially if we realize that we have those battle with sin in our flesh!! So we turn to Him, ask Him for help, listen to what He says and seek understanding from Him. He then "lights up" the situation, which is why Paul realized that he was dong the things he did not want. Also how he realized that he had a thorn which was a messenger from Satan. The Lord, which is our light, had shown him/ lite up those things/evil spirits!!

The simple fact is that God has put before us both good and evil, and I am talking about the Holy Spirit and the angels serving the Lord in the Kingdom of God which is in our midst, and also Satan and the dark forces who are under him. One of the reasons they are call dark is that they want to keep you blind as to what is going on in the heavens or spiritual realm which is around us.

If a person is not aware of this battle between good and evil which occurs in our midst, then it is because they are in the dark and thus the spirit they are dealing with is not the Light/ the Spirit of Christ. Thus pride, evil spirits, take hold of them, lie to them, make them think they are perfect by deed instead of because forgiveness. That misunderstanding thus causes them to not seek the Lord for ways to improve, because a perfect person does not need help, forgiveness, reproof, teaching, or basically God in their lives.

So it is that John then wrote: 1:Jn 1-9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is to say the cleansing come after we confess, and the person thinking they don't have battles/struggles with evil spirits "sin" don't confess it and seek help from the Lord. So He doesn't forgive them doing the things they do because evil spirit are getting them to do them, and they don't get cleansed from all that. And by looking at the Lord's prayer we see that we are to pray for forgiveness every time we pray - so it is not a one time ask for forgiveness but a daily thing. There is after all a specific day to hear from the Lord and that is "Today". So "Today you should have asked for forgiveness, according to the instructions given to us with the Lord's prayer.

So what about if we say on that very specific day, "Today" that we have not sinned, we thus make Him a liar and His word is not in us, which is the next verse

1 Jn 1-10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Now I know you read verses about how in the Lord there is not sin, which is very true. It is true because He forgives you and does not remember your sins if you seek Him "Today" like He askes. But if "like He askes" then you prayed the Lord's prayer, which has a request for forgiveness and thus a recognition of doing the very things that you don't want. Not that it was you but sin in you. So He forgives you and doesn't remember them anymore. You are thus clean, according to Him and He thinking is all that counts!

Basically, there is an important part and concept which we have in Christianity, and that is that we are sinner in need of our Lord Jesus Christ. That part and concept keeps us seeking Him. Seeking Him by faith is counted to us as righteousness. It is not a reason to seek sin "evil spirits", but to seek Him. So this concept causes us to not only get forgiveness, but teaching from Him, wisdom from Him, understanding from Him, encouragement from Him, help from Him, because this concept that we are sinner needing help from Him means we seek Him over and over and over. The person thinking they have achieved perfection no longer has a reason to seek Him, get teaching from Him, wisdom from Him, understanding from Him, and encouragement from Him, because they have gone over to pride (those evil spirits who are keeping them in the dark).

Of course that goes back what John wrote a few verses earlier:

1 Jn 1:5,6 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

God being Light means He showed us that there is a battle with evil spirits! He also shows us the Kingdom of God, and the understanding that there are more with us than against us. You know that not only do we have battles with evil spirits like "anger", "jealously", "depression", and so much more like "perverted sexual desire" - but we also have more with us that serve the Lord to help us like those ministering angels like "Joy of the Lord", "Peace", "His mercy", and so many more like "Intercession"

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

If we are in the Light (our Lord Jesus Christ) we know that God has put before us both good and evil, because He has shown us (lite up the situation). If we are still not understanding about "sin" those evil messengers from Satan that are like a thorn in our flesh, and how to get help then we are still in the dark (under the influence of darkness)

Cleaning us up did not mean that He took all the evil spirits from influencing us. He didn't do that because we would start "exalting" ourselves, like Paul explained. He left us the battle because it humbles us, makes us stronger, and causes us to seek Him.

 

[K2CHRIST]

So you can serve God and sin at the same time?
Jesus doesn't agree with that.

Serving God does not mean that evil spirits are not going to talk to you!!!!

Jesus Christ came to earth and Satan tested Him!

So what are you thinking?

That because you are a Christian trying to serve the Lord that you won't have your battles?

And just because Jesus lead a perfect life and did not get tricked by Satan that doesn't mean you won't!! Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, we don't do that. Many don't even realize the principle that sin is in them. Oh - we discussed that already. I pointed out that Paul figured out the principle that evil was present in him and that he was doing the very thing that he did not want, but if he didn't want then it was sin in him doing it - It seems you still can come to grips with that verse? It seems like you just reject that verse?

If our mind rules our actions, we will not commit sin.

If our mind rules our actions we are certainly going to commit sin, and that is usually what happens. All unrighteousness is sin and you mind is not good at determining what is right and what is wrong. Have we not read where Jesus said "If you then, being evil"

Mat 7:11 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

At least we should have read that only God is good, right?

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

So you think that your mind is going to keep you doing what is right - that is wrong!

Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, because only God is good. Jesus set the example of how to live a righteous life - and that is to take every thought captive to Jesus Christ, as the Word of God, to find out the right thing to do. Of course we don't take every thought captive to Jesus Christ or we would not think our mind ruling our actions will keep us from sin!!!

Thinking that our mind keeps us from sin and is how we get everything right, which is righteousness, is called "self-righteousness", or pride, and is what we are trying to get away from. We get away from it by seeking the Lord Jesus Christ, listening to Him, and doing what He askes. In that way we do the right thing!

How can verses applying to those in darkness apply to those in the light?

Do we not know the the Bible is for everyone???

Those applying the verses will seek Jesus Christ and He is the Light. Those pretending to apply the verse but don't seek Jesus Christ wind up in darkness.

Jn 5:46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

That was said to a people who had the Scriptures that Moses wrote and studied them. The having and studying the verses and even knowing those verses applied to the did not get them seeking the voice of the Lord. There were still people leaning on their own understanding!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Protestant doctrines for sure.
I am a Christian though.
His "imputed" righteous really did make me righteous.

To impute: to attribute or ascribe

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Our belief in Jesus Christ our Lord is imputed, attributed, ascribed, or reckoned to us as righteousness!

Notice that it does say our doing everything right is reckoned to us as righteousness!!

That is just strange because by definition righteousness is doing things right. But that is not the case with Christians. In our case our faith in Him is what is imputed to us as righteousness.

So then a person could do thing that are not right and still be reckoned as righteous by God! And it is a good thing because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So we just need to believe in Jesus Christ.

I guess then the only question is what type of belief or faith are we talking about? Let us go back a verse or two

Gen 15:4:5 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.” And He took him outside and said, “Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

Abram was having a conversation with the Lord and he believed that the One talking to him in the vision was the Lord. So the faith we are referring to is a faith that comes with hearing the Lord talk to us with His Spirit.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So then Abraham heard the Lord is his spirit and he believed it was the Lord and that faith was "imputed" to Him as righteousness.

His faith didn't seem to be perfect though, because we read that Abram seem to start doubting God and decided to go into Sarah's maid and have sex to make the promised child. That resulted in Ishmael, not Isaac. Still later, when he heard the Lord tell him to sacrifice Isaac he went about doing what the Lord told him. Apparently he figured then that God could make a way, and that he just needed to listen to the Lord and obey. That is some pretty interesting faith that is was God who was speaking to him.

Of course his faith seem to waver at times because at one point Abraham doesn't tell a king that Sarah was his wife. He did believe in God enough to get him out of that problem - but God did. That must have been embarrassing for Abraham.

The fact is that we are like that. We believe so we listen to Him and believe - just like it is written that His sheep hear His voice. Yet Jesus also talked about John the Baptist being like a reed blowing in the wind!! And that even though He also said that nobody born of women was greater that John, though he would be the least in heaven.

So even the best of us people (John the Baptist) had the problem of something doubting in Jesus. Our faith blows in the wind! So what does that mean, blows in the wind?

It means we get blown around by the spiritual forces of this world. So it is that we wind up battling with evil desires. We believe in the Lord and try to follow Him and what He says - but evil forces like that snake in the garden come along and tell us something like "Did God really say" - and that causes us to doubt because we are like that Adam and Eve who came before us.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”

Doubt - is the main approach Satan uses. I mean that small voice of the Lord's is like thoughts coming from in us and those not always so clear or loud to us. So the snake comes afterwards and questions us as to whether that was really God who was speaking to us. No wonder God made is about hearing Him with faith, since the snake is trying to get us to doubt we can hear Him.

So it was that Adam and Eve ate of the tree which they were not supposed to and that messed up everything until Jesus took on flesh and did and said only what the Father told Him. He and He alone live a truly perfect life. John, the man Jesus said was the greatest of us, said that he was not worthy to ties the sandals of Jesus.

So how do we see ourselves. Do we think we are righteous because of our great thinking of our mind and our great actions based on our thinking? Of do we understand that we are 'imputed, attributed, ascribed, and reckon' as being righteous just because we hear from Him by faith?

How is our understanding?

 

[Christ_empowered]

for whatever reason(s), I learned doctrine before Jesus moved on my heart and -- gasp-- saved me from the usual suspects: sin, satan, self, death, and the world. and so...

for better or for worse, now, when I read Scripture (a task I can do -now- , because He has quickened my spirit and restored my mind, even though I was electroshocked, blah blah blah)....

usually, Scripture falls into a sort of framework. better part of it? having a framework in which to put together Scripture as a fairly recently restored believer (restored in the sense of mental prowess and physical health) helps "make sense" of material that, for a long time, was just....words on paper. except for the family trees. i skip those.

worse? well, not only have churches -- the buildings, the larger denominations -- lost members, some are approaching extinction (I say this kinda sorta sadly, as someone who spent a lot of time in PCUSA as a youngster...buh bye, moderate Presbyterians....), because of today's (post)modern emphasis on individuality, etc....

-- no one wants to bother with sound doctrine --

not that I"m going to get into an in-depth discussion about it. truth be told, I'm still learning, adapting, and...I tend to be rather eclectic, as I am changed, and as Truth (Jesus) illuminates lesser truths about the world around me. I guess I'd say I lean kinda sorta Calvinist, believe in what Pentecostals would call 'miracles' and I consider to be, at the very least...some extreme acts of divine intervention in day to day life...

blah blah blah. my point is, sound doctrine is important. not of critical importance, to me at least; at a certain point, I often wonder "why did that person get a PhD-level degree in theology, to argue about the finer details of God, when a job in law, medicine, teaching...plumbing, HVAC...could have contributed more to the community?,"

but it -is- helpful, because sound doctrine helps hone critical thinking, analysis, exegesis, and overall development of The Christian worldview.

--and that is my opinion--

 

[K2CHRIST]

We too often forget that the heavens and the earth and all that is in the heavens and the earth belong to the Lord. Some are rebellious (us). So not all sit at His feet and listen to Him (which is the one thing truly necessary). Still He made the heavens and the earth and so it all belongs to Him. AND HE IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.

Understanding that is understanding sound doctrine.

That being the case He has plans, even plans for each of us. The believer can and will look to all the things happening around the and see the hand of the Lord in them.

So it is that when we start believing in the Lord we start seeing that He has been operating in our lives. See that causes us to praise Him. We also see there are others, not Him, who are rebelling against Him and causing us problems, challenges, and struggles, but if that is part of His plan because He is still God - the creator who is alive and active and being forth His plan.

So then things happened, battles take place, and we have desires which some exploit for their own good. Not that we battle with flesh and blood but those dark spiritual forces - demons - who like to cause us problems even in our flesh.

Thanks be to God who is alive and active and who helps us, when we turn to Him. There is no sin - no demons - in Him, and He will send His Holy Spirit to live in us! Still, we are in us, are we not? And demons are still about, are they not? And of us it was said, "If you being evil." So it is that we find the principle that evil is present in us. Only God is good, but His Holy Spirit in us did not change the fact that we are still selfish, have desires of the flesh, and get easily distracted so that we don't always seek Him who is inside us.

He has quickened my spirit and restored my mind,

Yes - His Spirit in us does quicken our spirit to seek Him, and His Spirit in us means we have access to the mind of Christ, which can and does help put our mind straight - if we listen and believe Him.

I'm still learning,

And so yes, we are still learning - continually learning - because we need a lot of teaching. Indeed it is even said that Christ learned obedience at the cross. If the Lord of lords and King of kings, through whom all things were created and who was in the beginning with God and who is God, still learned something about obedience just a couple of thousand years ago, I figure learning is going to be a continual thing for as long as I can imagine.

Considering that, I must not be the perfect One. It must not be my mind and my thinking that I should lean on. I must seek the Lord and listen to what His spirit says to me as often as I can get myself to do that!

Sadly, I have to confess I can usually only do that about a dozen times during the day. So most of the day is spent leaning on my understand, doing what I think is right, and not even testing the spirits to make sure those thoughts are coming from Him. Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, but I fall so short of that that I find it amazing that He is still there hours later when I turn back to Him again.

That being the case I am even more amazed by the person saying they don't have battles with "sin" those demons which are about there evil work. They seem to have the attitude that they are now perfect because the Lord sent His Holy Spirit to them. Did they not see that He was quickening their spirit to turn to Him like Christ_empowered noticed? If He was quicken their spirit to seek Him then their spirit wasn't seek Him, right! So that fact point to the fact that they/we don't seek Him like we should. In other words - 'They were not listening so the Spirit had to point that fact out to them!!

That is what happens with me. I get side tracked and stop seeking Him and so His Spirit comes along and gets me to turn back to Him - a dozen different times a day. I want to do and say only what He tells me, but I don't do that. Too often I too think it is by my mind I am doing the right thing, instead of by seeking His mind via the Holy Spirit that tells me the right thing to do. I too might incorrectly write: "If our mind rules our actions, we will not commit sin."

That of course is non-sense. I need His Holy Spirit to "quicken my spirit" to turn back and listen to Him through out the day. Thanks be to God for sending me His Spirit to help me, the sinner who gets distracted. And even more thanks for Him forgiving me for all the times I do something based on the thinking of my mind.