Bible Study Battling evil desires

[K2CHRIST]

Just because you "went over it" doesn't make it true.

Being in the Bible makes is true - and I theses verses are in the Bible:

Rm 7: 19 -21For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

1 Jn 1: 8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Those are true - They were true for Paul and John who were both spirit filled Christians at the time they wrote them - and note that Rom 7 comes after Rom 6 - and that Paul wrote "I do" not 'I did' was this was that case when Paul wrote the letter to the Romans and thus the state of the Christian Paul who had Spirit - and also that John wrote "we" which includes himself who was also a true believe who knew the Lord!!

So if you say that you are not like them, in that state, then who are you to be included with?

Paul's OT troubles didn't follow Him into the NT.

Ha - Paul was not even alive in during the writing of the OT. So why do you write that Paul's troubles didn't follow Him into the NT? Perhaps you are thinking that Saul, the Pharisee who was on the road to Damascus to persecute Christian, was before doing that before Jesus went to the cross. That is wrong. You might want to read both the OT and NT? Still Saul did know the Lord personally when he wrote what we read in the Bible - thus again I tell you, and you have ignored the truth, which is that Paul the true believer in Jesus Christ wrote " I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good." You just are not accepting what is written!

The truth is that we have to deal with the principle that evil is present in us. If you say you don't have to deal with sin then what John wrote applies to you, Again: " If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

You can hold to your thought that "Just because you "went over it" doesn't make it true, but it not me but John who wrote that if you say you have not sin the truth is not in you!

Where is "hearing from Him" mentioned in the Rom 6 verses?

His sheep hear His voice is mentioned in Jn 10. So that is understood if a person has read their Bible, and really and truly understood if you are His sheep. That is to say that His sheep hear Jesus Christ. They know they hear from Him via His Holy Spirit who brings the word of God which belong to Jesus Christ to our spirit. That being the case we call Jesus Christ Lord - because He talks to us and He gives us instructions. You Lord would be someone giving you instructions, and our Lord Jesus Christ is our Lord who gives us instructions. We are essentially a slave to Jesus Christ, in that we are serving Him. If you don't hear His voice, then whose voice are you hearing from. If you do hear His voice He tells you the truth, and the truth is that there is a spiritual realm that exists around us and influences us. So even when listening to Him we test the spirits to make sure it is Him. We are not perfect at testing the spirits and discerning good from evil, but we know to do that because our Lord Jesus Christ talks to us and we hear from Him.

That being the case "hearing from Him" is already understood when reading Rom 6. So you can take a verse like say:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?

The answer is of course "No" If you get to now Him He gives you all the grace you need to be reckon as righteouses, but that does not mean that we want to continue with evil spirit, which in this case are called "sin". We instead want to seek our Lord and His voice, but that does not mean we do that perfectly, like He did. So we have to remember that we are not trying to continue with sin but continue with Him.

or we could take another verse like say - Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,"

I live with my wife. That is to say that I hang out with my wife, not the neighbors wife. In the say way I live with Jesus Christ. His Holy Spirit is with me. So I should hang out with Him, not the devil. Still, even though I hang out with my wife and indeed live with her, I still hear from many other people during the day. I hear others at the market, on the radio in the car, and perhaps on the TV. They have influences on me also. So who think that evil spirit, can not still talk to you. They make their way into your life like a billboard say vote for our guy!

I can not understand how anyone truly know the Lord, because as His sheep they have spiritual ears to hear, could write "Where is hearing from Him mention?" It is known because His sheep really do hear His voice, so it should have to be mentioned. Still it is. Did not Jesus talk about having ears to hear? Do you have ears to hear?

I was buried with Him and raised with Him: just as Rom 6:5-6 say.

Were you? Good, but then why don't you seem to understand all this? Why does it not seem that you don't understand that when John wrote "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." - That the we meant that he included himself, the true believer, in that statement.

Why are you thinking Paul was from the OT?

Why are you asking about hearing Him not being mentioned in a certain verse, as if it wasn't always understood by His sheep?

And why does He keep asking me to write? Certainly I learn things every time I do what He askes me to do. Certainly I get more understanding every time He talks to me. So it is that even responding over and over shows me things and confirms other things He already talked to me about.

Once He asked me to go to Ezekiel 3 and read. Then as I read He gave me instructions which were like what He told Ezekiel.

Ezek 3: Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me

While I read I also heard Him speaking to me. He was telling me, "Karl, I am sending you to people who should listen to you, but they will not be willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to Me".

People need to listen to Him. Yet if they listen, then their spiritual ears have be opened. And if there ears have truly been opened they know that the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit, because He lights up the situation going on around you, and that He did not lie when He said He puts before us both good and evil. That being the case you can hear from both but you choose Him. Choosing Him does not mean that evil is not still before you.

Have you never seen a cartoon that has a little devil on one shoulder and a little angel on the other. Hearing with our spiritual ears is like that. We hear the Lord and choose Him but that does not mean we didn't hear from the enemy too! It also does not mean that we alway pay close attention, and that is going on all the time. So being imperfect people we often find out like Paul that we are doing the very thing we did not want. We find out like John that we have sin (that little devil) talking to us also (which we pick up in our spirit inside us). We are not a slave to that little devil, because we are the ones wanting to do good - like Paul said. Yet the person who is not aware of this going on in their lives is the one who is deceiving themselves!

They seem to think that by going by their minds they are going to be able to do what is right! That is of course wrong, because even in the situation where you find the little demon talking to you and the Lord talking to you, there is still you and your thinking and making choices. So it is that you understand that you have sin with you and Jesus Christ with you, and you have choices to make!

A true believer in Jesus Christ understand this!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

No.. there is a difference between our position in Christ and how much we realize and understand our position in Him.

I don't follow your "No".?
They..."there is a difference between our position in Christ and how much we realize and understand our position in Him." are two entirely different points.

Yes! The mind controls the body, and the Spirit controls the mind.
I have fasted..
Made me weak. But therein lies my strength..

Proof that the body is not in charge.
The mind controls everything.

 

[Hopeful]

Answer me this Hopeful; who is John here speaking to?

My little children (believers, dear ones), I am writing you these things so that you will not sin and violate God’s law. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous [the upright, the just One, who conforms to the Father’s will in every way—purpose, thought, and action]. 1 John 2:1

You filled in the blanks perfectly, answering your own question.
We who have already availed ourselves of the Advocate are who John is addressing.
We have the Advocate, and He is to be made known to those who still commit sin.

 

[Hopeful]

To be clear on sin. A believer can not sin in his spirit. But in mind and body we can..

Were that the case, the OT Law would have been sufficient for salvation.
How can your mind be equated with your body?
One has control of the other.

We should understand the difference between the three, and then learn how to fight the only fight we as Christians have..
The good fight of faith! Amen
What a privilege.
Salvation is made complete the very second you and i got saved..
God bless you and everyone here!

The Jews awaited a Savior to save then from the Romans.
When Jesus arrived, He saved them, and us, from a far more insidious enemy...sin.
He conquered sin while in the flesh, and as we can now be water baptized into Christ, we can partake in that victory resulting in lives free of sinning.
Otherwise, you are just free from the Romans.

 

[Hopeful]

Hi Hopeful,,,,
Could you explain 1 John 1:8 ?

If the Word tells us to confess our sins,,,doesn't this mean we have sin? (1 John 1:9)

Sure...
John is addressing the church about two very different walks, and the two very different men who walk in them.
The two ways are in darkness or in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 pertain to those walking in darkness and verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those who walk in the light.
Verse 8 says that if we say we have no sin...etc, but verse 7 says we can be washed of ALL sin by the blood of Christ.
They obviously refer to different sets of men, as neither applies to both those walking in darkness (which is sin) and those walking in the light (which is God).
There is no sin in God, who is light.

 

[Link1983]

I don't follow your "No".?
They..."there is a difference between our position in Christ and how much we realize and understand our position in Him." are two entirely different points.

Proof that the body is not in charge.

Yes but what our body does is depending on how much of our thinking is right. And our thinking is dependent on our spiritual walk.
Do we walk like Christ did. Do you?
Always thinking right and completely blameless. ....did you know that worrying is a sin?....?
Everything that is said or done outside of faith is in fact sin.
I don't want to sound negative. But i also don't want to be deceived by myself or anyone else..

They are two sides of the same subject.
Correct me if I'm wrong..

 

[Hopeful]

Yes but what our body does is depending on how much of our thinking is right. And our thinking is dependent on our spiritual walk.
Do we walk like Christ did. Do you?

I do.
Jesus freed me from serving sin, just as He said is possible in John 8:32-34.
If all of the old you has been done away with, as 2 Cor 5:17 said, then you have a new mind too.
It will never do anything evil.

Always thinking right and completely blameless. ....did you know that worrying is a sin?....?

Wasn't Jesus worrying a bit when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane? Before He was taken away by the high priest and the mob?
He asked God if it was possible to let the cup pass from Him!
Worry and lack of faith in God are quite dissimilar.

Everything that is said or done outside of faith is in fact sin.
I don't want to sound negative. But i also don't want to be deceived by myself or anyone else..
They are two sides of the same subject.
Correct me if I'm wrong..

Does the devil deceitfully trick men into lives without sin?
The deceivers are those who accommodate sin, even advocating sin.

 

[Link1983]

Were that the case, the OT Law would have been sufficient for salvation.
How can your mind be equated with your body?
One has control of the other.

The Jews awaited a Savior to save then from the Romans.
When Jesus arrived, He saved them, and us, from a far more insidious enemy...sin.
He conquered sin while in the flesh, and as we can now be water baptized into Christ, we can partake in that victory resulting in lives free of sinning.
Otherwise, you are just free from the Romans.

I believe that the Bible says that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
We are sett free from the world and our sins through Jesus. Not in ourselves but in Him.
Purification i personally believe and believe the Bible supports, is a process for each Christian.
When we get saved it is our spirit that is completely new.
Our minds and bodies aren't. They still have a potentially sinful nature. Thats why we must learn to let our spirits dominate the mind and body.

I do believe in being completely free in all three. But i don't believe that it just automatically happens.
It is our job and responsibility to free ourselves from sin.
But it is only possible with God. In ourselves we can do nothing.

I hope i got this right and that we can help each other here

 

[Link1983]

I do.
Jesus freed me from serving sin, just as He said is possible in John 8:32-34.
If all of the old you has been done away with, as 2 Cor 5:17 said, then you have a new mind too.
It will never do anything evil.

Wasn't Jesus worrying a bit when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane? Before He was taken away by the high priest and the mob?
He asked God if it was possible to let the cup pass from Him!
Worry and lack of faith in God are quite dissimilar.


Does the devil deceitfully trick men into lives without sin?
The deceivers are those who accommodate sin, even advocating sin.

So if i understand you correctly. You say that you never sin. That you are perfect in all ways?

I understand that Jesus has freed us from sin. But not all understand this truth.
Not worried. He had anxiety. Worry comes from fear. He wasn't afraid. He knew what going to happen. So more like broken by the world.
I certainly do not! Condone or defend sinning. Some do but that is definitely a sin to do so.

 

[Hopeful]

I believe that the Bible says that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
We are sett free from the world and our sins through Jesus. Not in ourselves but in Him.
Purification i personally believe and believe the Bible supports, is a process for each Christian.
When we get saved it is our spirit that is completely new.
Our minds and bodies aren't. They still have a potentially sinful nature. Thats why we must learn to let our spirits dominate the mind and body.

I do believe in being completely free in all three. But i don't believe that it just automatically happens.
It is our job and responsibility to free ourselves from sin.
But it is only possible with God. In ourselves we can do nothing.

I hope i got this right and that we can help each other here

Start by quitting saying you are already saved.
That won't be assured till after your judgement on the day Christ returns.
Second, quit separating three different facets of YOU.
You are either "all in" or "all out".
If your repentance from sin is true, you will never sin again.
If you do sin, your repentance was a lie to God.

We can't build a relationship with God that is based on lies.
Third, you say you believe in being completely free from sin, so manifest that belief, and stop supplying yourself with reasons to abdicate your faith.

 

[Link1983]

I do.
Jesus freed me from serving sin, just as He said is possible in John 8:32-34.
If all of the old you has been done away with, as 2 Cor 5:17 said, then you have a new mind too.
It will never do anything evil.

Wasn't Jesus worrying a bit when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane? Before He was taken away by the high priest and the mob?
He asked God if it was possible to let the cup pass from Him!
Worry and lack of faith in God are quite dissimilar.


Does the devil deceitfully trick men into lives without sin?
The deceivers are those who accommodate sin, even advocating sin.

I think a Christian just assuming to have no sin. And never have been sinful after conversion is probably being deceived. Either by satan or themselves.
Again.. i don't want to be pessimistic. Only want truth. Honestly..
Agree on some parts tho, so that is good ?

 

[Hopeful]

So if i understand you correctly. You say that you never sin. That you are perfect in all ways?

All the things I will be judged for...yes.
I still misspell words and burn dinner on occasion.
But I will not be judged for that

I understand that Jesus has freed us from sin. But not all understand this truth.

Then...be free!

Not worried. He had anxiety. Worry comes from fear. He wasn't afraid. He knew what going to happen. So more like broken by the world.
I certainly do not! Condone or defend sinning. Some do but that is definitely a sin to do so.

You are "splitting hairs"...
Look up the definition of anxiety.

 

[Link1983]

Start by quitting saying you are already saved.
That won't be assured till after your judgement on the day Christ returns.
Second, quit separating three different facets of YOU.
You are either "all in" or "all out".
If your repentance from sin is true, you will never sin again.
If you do sin, your repentance was a lie to God.

We can't build a relationship with God that is based on lies.
Third, you say you believe in being completely free from sin, so manifest that belief, and stop supplying yourself with reasons to abdicate your faith.

Ok Hopeful.. could you please back these statements with scriptures?

 

[Hopeful]

I think a Christian just assuming to have no sin. And never have been sinful after conversion is probably being deceived. Either by satan or themselves.
Again.. i don't want to be pessimistic. Only want truth. Honestly..
Agree on some parts tho, so that is good ?

You say you want truth, but then hedge on it by relegating it to pessimism.
That, my friend, is double-mindedness.
Pick a "team" and stand by it.

 

[Link1983]

Start by quitting saying you are already saved.
That won't be assured till after your judgement on the day Christ returns.
Second, quit separating three different facets of YOU.
You are either "all in" or "all out".
If your repentance from sin is true, you will never sin again.
If you do sin, your repentance was a lie to God.

We can't build a relationship with God that is based on lies.
Third, you say you believe in being completely free from sin, so manifest that belief, and stop supplying yourself with reasons to abdicate your faith.

Well i agree on all the all in part. Can't separate the parts as they are linked to each other. I was only trying to make a point.
But you are very optimistic and focused on the good so i like that. So we disagree on a few things here.
We are both believers and love God.
That is the most important thing. So God bless. And may He give us the right understanding.

Please don't say that i said something that i didn't say.
I was saved the second that i accepted Jesus Christ as savior. Period.
I never sin... on purpose that is..

 

[Hopeful]

Ok Hopeful.. could you please back these statements with scriptures?

Sure...
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Judgement is still to come for all men, starting with us who profess Jesus Christ.

It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Some parts of you can't remain "old" if "all things are made new".

It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Continued repentances manifest the "sorrow of the world".
That worketh death.

 

[Link1983]

You say you want truth, but then hedge on it by relegating it to pessimism.
That, my friend, is double-mindedness.
Pick a "team" and stand by it.

I have picked the good team long ago. Not double minded here. Seems that you are misunderstanding much of what i am trying to say..
I guess that is my fault for bad explanations..:/

 

[K2CHRIST]

The Lord is the creator

He created us and we have flesh.

We of course have desires that come from having flesh - like: breathing, eating, and even a sexual desire.

The desire then are not bad are given to us with the flesh to maintain the flesh. We might call them laws of the flesh.

Evil spirits try to use the desire to turn us away from the Lord our God, Jesus Christ.

Them doing that is called temptation - and so temptation does not come from God but from evil spirits.

We are all tempted, even Jesus Christ was tempted in the flesh.

Jesus Christ does send His Holy Spirit who tells us the words Jesus Christ, the Lord our God, has for us.

So we need to discern between good, the Holy Spirit, and evil, those spirits who tempt us.

The evil spirits wish to keep you in the dark; meaning they don't want you to know the above - that they are around.

God tends to speak to us in parables. "Sin" is not only used for the action of sinning, but also as a name for the evil spirits tempting us to sin.

Sin - therefore is a spirit who tells us we don't have them.

Don't listen to sin, but we still have to test the spirits

 

[Link1983]

Sure...
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Judgement is still to come for all men, starting with us who profess Jesus Christ.

It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Some parts of you can't remain "old" if "all things are made new".

It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Continued repentances manifest the "sorrow of the world".
That worketh death.

Are you sure that you understand the scriptures correctly?

1 Peter is talking about judgement. Not about loosing salvation.
Christians will all be judged and or rewarded. This is not talking about salvation or damnation.
That is how i read it..

2 Corinthians. What became new is the real you. Your spirit.
Did you get a new body?
Yes they are connected. Yet they are different.

 

[Hopeful]

Well i agree on all the all in part. Can't separate the parts as they are linked to each other. I was only trying to make a point.
But you are very optimistic and focused on the good so i like that. So we disagree on a few things here.
We are both believers and love God.
That is the most important thing. So God bless. And may He give us the right understanding.

Please don't say that i said something that i didn't say.
I was saved the second that i accepted Jesus Christ as savior. Period.
I never sin... on purpose that is..

All sin is "on purpose", so if something happens accidentally, it doesn't qualify as sin...in the NT.
James writes..." Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:13-15)
Without lust, an enticement, and conception, there is no sin.
As for lust, it is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Seeing as lust can't be re-procured by those that are Christ's, that third of the "formula" makes sin impossible...for those that are Christ's.
The things the devil tempts us with now are just the memories of the crucified lusts.
They have no power over those that are Christ's.