Belief and Faith

[JLB]

You know, JLB, honestly, I was going to reply "I don't have to. The mere fact that God created the heavens and the earth, created a sinful man, (even if you hold the man was holy), the intention of God is clearly found in that in every contact God has made with the man it was HE who initiated the contact, of every person in the Scripture that had a positive relationship with Him - whether it shows that He called the man (or woman) or that if the narrative begins with the person already in positive relationship, the M.O. of God is that every one of these people was called of God to begin with. From Adam to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, to Andrew, Peter, Paul, Jesus, and everyone in-between. God has been the One who offered or insisted, or downright pushed salvation on man, and the fact that man did not ask God for saving, or deliverance but God provides salvation in and through Covenant - first in Trinity, second, in Trinity - shows that salvation was God's idea and not man's, and yet man is to be beneficiary of God sacrificing His Right Arm so that those He contemplated in Trinity as saved individuals can and could come to pass in TIME, and the which when TIME is no more, then it's back into Trinity from whence we first were contemplated. But now we'll have bodies!"

And then I thought to myself....hmmmm, that sounds rude. You asked for a Scripture and I don't provide one but instead provide an examination of the first causes of salvation instead.

So, now that you know my spirit in which I choose not to sound rude (it's not rudeness, it's declaratory, straight-up and forthwith without deception without ambiguity, because that's how my Father would respond as well. And since my Father says what He means and means what He says, I, being conformed into the unbroken image of Christ (not Adam) who does the same as His Father, I am under instruction AND command to come at you in the same way - without shadow or turning.

So, let my first thought above be my response, please, and just to let you know, I am not being rude.
Is that Okie-Dokie with you?
Some like the smell of napalm in the morning. Me? I love the sound and experience of HEAT, IMPACT, FRICTION, SOUND, and WONDER when two swords clang!

Ok. So you don’t have a scripture for your statement.

You wouldn’t be the first to believe in unscriptural doctrine.


God bless you.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Nope. Free will in man is an illusion. Paul says we are servants to sin and sin nature. Martin Luther calls it "The Bondage to Sin." If we are in bondage, then nothing in man is free.

If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7


JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well J,
Here's my comprehension level.
You're calvinist in beliefs and do not say so.
Why is it that calvinist's are so hesitant to say that they are of this belief system?

John 3:16 tells me that we have free will to choose to believe in God's only begotten (unique) son.

Deuteronomy 30:19 tells me that I have a choice to choose life or to choose death.

Galatians 5:13 tells me that I am a free person.

John 7:17 tells me I can choose to do God's will.

Where in the entire bible does it say I DO NOT have free will?
WHEN was it taken away from me?

I am not a Calvinist. I reject that title.
I am a Biblical Christian.
As Paul, as Peter, as James...

 

[GodsGrace]

I DID explain this. It isn't a contradiction.
We're going to have to stop this discussion here.
It's going nowhere.

For chessman in reply to your post no. 119

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ok. So you don’t have a scripture for your statement.

You wouldn’t be the first to believe in unscriptural doctrine.


God bless you.






JLB

Straight up? Like that?
You curse me and then bless me?

Bless me with what?
A curse?
What does it profit me with this kind of 'love?"
If a man says "be warm and be filled...what does it profit me unless you feed me and give me a blanket.
Thanks. But no thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not a Calvinist. I reject that title.
I am a Biblical Christian.
As Paul, as Peter, as James...

You could reject it, but it's what you believe.
How about responding to my post to you on free will.
You said we don't have free will. I gave you about 4 verses that prove we do. Do you believe the bible? I asked you when our free will was taken away. I'd be interested to know.

Tomorrow...

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not a Calvinist. I reject that title.
I am a Biblical Christian.
As Paul, as Peter, as James...

P.S. They believed in free will...

 

[jeremiah1five]

P.S. They believed in free will...

"They?"
Who's "they?"

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7


JLB

Let me be clear...you get up in the morning and you exercise a choice...coffee or tea, should I wear the red shirt or the blue sweater, do I leave the house at 8 am or 8:15?
This appears like free will, but is it?
Our wills operate within the confines of God's Will. God knows the beginning from the end because He's ordained the end. This defeats the doctrine in the church of free will.
We live in the material and temporal. We have no power over the spiritual, neither do we have any power over the wind, nor can we see it but we see its effects on leaves, on trees, etc.

John 3:6-8 (KJV)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

You can't control the wind nor can you control the Holy Spirit. His Will is Sovereign and He doesn't respond just because someone tells another to read Romans 10:9-10 and you will be saved, nor will He save because someone tells another to "accept Jesus into 'your heart.'

When the wind blows on your face you will feel it but not see it.

When the Holy Spirit shows up YOU WILL KNOW IT.

 

[JLB]

Straight up? Like that?
You curse me and then bless me?

Bless me with what?
A curse?
What does it profit me with this kind of 'love?"
If a man says "be warm and be filled...what does it profit me unless you feed me and give me a blanket.
Thanks. But no thanks.

I’d gladly give you a blanket through the computer screen if I could.

All I can offer you is the truth.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You can't control the wind nor can you control the Holy Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is self control.


I never implied we can control the Holy Spirit.


Don’t you realize that grace frees you to choose your own master? But choose carefully, for you surrender yourself to become a servant—bound to the one you choose to obey. If you choose to love sin, it will become your master, and it will own you and reward you with death. But if you choose to love and obey God, he will lead you into perfect righteousness.
Romans 6:16 TPT



JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

The fruit of the Spirit is self control.


I never implied we can control the Holy Spirit.


Don’t you realize that grace frees you to choose your own master? But choose carefully, for you surrender yourself to become a servant—bound to the one you choose to obey. If you choose to love sin, it will become your master, and it will own you and reward you with death. But if you choose to love and obey God, he will lead you into perfect righteousness.
Romans 6:16 TPT



JLB

When you hold to free will in man in the spiritual realm you do.

Christ RULES the spiritual realm.

Not man. Nor does man have ANY control or say over the spiritual realm.

This includes holding that man has free will.

A man has only one master: Sin.

Not Satan, sin.

If Satan is a characteristic of Lucifer, then I will tell you that Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of God.

 

[JLB]

When you hold to free will in man in the spiritual realm you do.

Christ RULES the spiritual realm.

Not man. Nor does man have ANY control or say over the spiritual realm.

And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:19



JLB

 

[JLB]

A man has only one master: Sin.

Sin is not my master.


Jesus is my Master!



JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:19



JLB

Good Scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

"They?"
Who's "they?"

The 3 persons YOU mentioned.

Here's what you said in post no. 123
I am not a Calvinist. I reject that title.
I am a Biblical Christian.
As Paul, as Peter, as James...

We were discussing free will.
I replied that THEY (Paul, Peter and James) believed in free will.
If you don't agree, you're going to have to show me some verses that prove they did not.

I gave you verses to prove that free will DOES indeed exist...to which you never replied BTW. Before you do anything else, of course.

 

[WIP]

“If a child or an atheist thinks himself innocent, can they truly repent?”

I believe it is possible to repent without knowing God. I believe I am a living example.

When I was in my late teens I was a thief. I engaged in this activity for a few years until one day when I got caught. At that time I realized that stealing was not a life path I truly wanted to stay on and I gave up that lifestyle, never to do it again to this day. When I was engaged in this lifestyle it was a time when I denied the existence of God. During my first year in college, when asked to pick a subject for an essay I chose to write about what I perceived as hogwash and contradiction in the Bible. The professor was not too keen on the topic I chose but grading me on my work, outside of personal prejudice, he gave me a decent grade on my essay.

My wife actually thinks my honesty is over-the-top. Here's one example. I'll report income even when it would be very easy to get away with not doing so. I operate a small hobby farm and in so doing I grow hay. Sometimes, when we have enough to spare, I will give a few bales of hay to my mother-in-law for her horses. Even though she doesn't pay me, I still report the sale of the hay in my farm books and pay income tax accordingly. My wife thinks I'm nuts for doing this.

It is my belief that I have repented from a life of thievery. I have completely turned away from it and have no desire to do it again.

 

[JLB]

isn't repentance the result of obedience

Yes sir.


Repent is the command of the Gospel.


Those who obey the Gospel, repent, which in the context of the Gospel means to turn to God.


If we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our Lord.


Whether we know it or not, if Jesus is not our Lord, then Satan is.


The way we demonstrate our believing (obedience) the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confessing Jesus as Lord is the corresponding action of obedience that both James and Paul teach us, is the principle by which faith operates or it (faith) remains dormant and inactive, unable to produce the intended divine result.


Paul calls it the obedience of faith.



But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:36



JLB



Feel free to move this to a new thread about -

“What does it mean to obey the Gospel”


I think several wanted to discuss this.

 

[JLB]

Bless me with what?
A curse?

Never.


I just wanted you to know you are dearly loved and welcome here, by all, even though we may disagree on some things.

I can see you are very passionate, which is good.


You are in a good place here on this Forum, surrounded by a staff that is committed to your spiritual growth and a Christian family who probably needs to hear what the Lord has put inside of you.


Be blessed and know that you are welcome and appreciated.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe it is possible to repent without knowing God. I believe I am a living example.

When I was in my late teens I was a thief. I engaged in this activity for a few years until one day when I got caught. At that time I realized that stealing was not a life path I truly wanted to stay on and I gave up that lifestyle, never to do it again to this day. When I was engaged in this lifestyle it was a time when I denied the existence of God. During my first year in college, when asked to pick a subject for an essay I chose to write about what I perceived as hogwash and contradiction in the Bible. The professor was not too keen on the topic I chose but grading me on my work, outside of personal prejudice, he gave me a decent grade on my essay.

My wife actually thinks my honesty is over-the-top. Here's one example. I'll report income even when it would be very easy to get away with not doing so. I operate a small hobby farm and in so doing I grow hay. Sometimes, when we have enough to spare, I will give a few bales of hay to my mother-in-law for her horses. Even though she doesn't pay me, I still report the sale of the hay in my farm books and pay income tax accordingly. My wife thinks I'm nuts for doing this.

It is my belief that I have repented from a life of thievery. I have completely turned away from it and have no desire to do it again.

Your post reminds me of Cold Case Christianity.
About an investigator that set out to prove Christianity wrong and instead became a Christian. An attorney also wrote a similar book, can't remember the title right now.

About the hay: You do what your conscience tells you but the hay is a gift to your mother in law. If we had to pay taxes on gifts, gift-giving would seriously slow down!

I agree with your wife.
(woman always have some comment to make - sorry)