Believe in God, you will be saved

[eddif]

If all one sees is water in the so called, great commission...then one is missing out....And that is the passage I'm speaking of...

I hope we agree.

Previous to the 400 years of silence, the law and prophets were taught.
(From Moses to John the Baptist)

Beginning with John the Baptist the the Kingdom began to be taught
(the one who comes after me will baptise you in the Holy Spirit and fire).

Jesus moved from the external law of Moses to internal abstract inner thoughts. Matthew chapters 5,6,7

So
The majority of people would see water. The Nile, Red Sea, washings, crossing Jordan.
But
The inner thoughts about:
Poor in spirit
Hunger and thirst for righteousness
etc.
these are new concepts to most.

If the concept of baptism is brought up, water is the major thought at the time of Jesus.

However
Immersion into abstract thoughts is more of a Greek concept (IMHO)
Not that Jesus taught Greek mythology, but Jesus taught Gods thoughts. Jesus taught the multitudes in parables ( external ) but taught the disciples about (inner) love, joy, etc.

Really the Baptism at Pentecost is the real inner ( heart, mind immersion - law placed in heart and mind).
Language classes are sometimes taught as immersion classes. No word for word translations, but another language foreign to what has existed. (This is a hard concept for a redneck to explain).
Example
A gentile had to be immersed in the concepts of God. Leaving their Godless former beliefs behind, and becoming immersed in The one true God . No paganism spoken, or hidden in this class.

eddif

 

[Runmyramble]

I hope we agree.

Previous to the 400 years of silence, the law and prophets were taught.
(From Moses to John the Baptist)

Beginning with John the Baptist the the Kingdom began to be taught
(the one who comes after me will baptise you in the Holy Spirit and fire).

Jesus moved from the external law of Moses to internal abstract inner thoughts. Matthew chapters 5,6,7

So
The majority of people would see water. The Nile, Red Sea, washings, crossing Jordan.
But
The inner thoughts about:
Poor in spirit
Hunger and thirst for righteousness
etc.
these are new concepts to most.

If the concept of baptism is brought up, water is the major thought at the time of Jesus.

However
Immersion into abstract thoughts is more of a Greek concept (IMHO)
Not that Jesus taught Greek mythology, but Jesus taught Gods thoughts. Jesus taught the multitudes in parables ( external ) but taught the disciples about (inner) love, joy, etc.

Really the Baptism at Pentecost is the real inner ( heart, mind immersion - law placed in heart and mind).
Language classes are sometimes taught as immersion classes. No word for word translations, but another language foreign to what has existed. (This is a hard concept for a redneck to explain).
Example
A gentile had to be immersed in the concepts of God. Leaving their Godless former beliefs behind, and becoming immersed in The one true God . No paganism spoken, or hidden in this class.

eddif

Here’s Dallas: “Matt. 28:18-20 is called the Great Commission, but when you look at it closely, you might want to call it the Great Omission, because what Jesus said to do here is rarely done.

“Here is what Jesus is saying: ‘I have been given say over everything in heaven and on earth. As you go, make disciples, immerse them together in the presence of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.’ Yes, baptize them in the name, but dear friends that doesn’t mean just getting them wet while you say those names. It means to immerse them in reality. After you have done that, teach them in a way that they actually do what Jesus said. That is the process of spiritual formation. And what comes out at the end is the joy of living in the easy yoke, for you find that to do what Jesus said is the easy and strong way to live forever and in time.

Dallas Willard
As You Go, Make Disciples | Living as Apprentices

As You Go, Make Disciples

LIVING AS APPRENTICES Dallas Willard continued his journey in the kingdom of God for eternity in May, 2013. Since his death, at least two books have been published that discuss the man and his theo…

livingasapprentices.com

 

[Hopeful]

Would you care to explain how I am wrong?

You cited Acts 2:38 but cut out the portion pertaining to baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Why?

Is it the baptism of John the Baptist?
Or the baptism into Jesus

It is the baptism of repentance in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
And it is our means of crucifying the old man and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
And it is our means of undergoing the circumcision done without hands. (Col 2:11-12)

Is it Jesus baptizing into the Holy Spirit and fire.

I have never heard or read of baptizing into the Holy Spirit.
I have however heard and read of being baptized BY the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)
Men baptize with water, and God baptizes with the Holy Ghost.
The baptism of fire will come at the end of the world.

I am not interested in a debate, but you can point out the exact error.
eddif

I am glad the Lord allowed me to add to the conversation.

 

[eddif]

You cited Acts 2:38 but cut out the portion pertaining to baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Why?

Post 238 is where I quoted Acts 2:38
I covered repentance
Salvation in Jesus
Baptism in Holy Spirit

The King James allows Repentance (IMHO) possible separation from the name of Jesus. The other translations tend not to easily allow my thought.

Acts 29:3 kjv
3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

To me Repentance is the knowledge of sin revealed by the law. ( using the law lawfully). (Without the law there is no knowledge of sin).
But the Gentiles know the law by the law being placed in their hearts and minds). So the one new man is aware of both the written law and the law written on a heart of flesh and on the mind of Christ in us.
Regretfully I spend time in both Jewish thoughts and Gentile thoughts and try Desperately to present the one new man concept.

To you using John’s baptism is linked to the name of Jesus.
Using other translations makes my thought harder to present.

I will stop here ( you asked a question).

I spent 12 years in John’s baptism.
Two years in Jesus Christ before
Jesus baptizing me in the Holy Spirit.
(We do sometimes have different experiences).

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful]

Post 238 is where I quoted Acts 2:38
I covered repentance
Salvation in Jesus
Baptism in Holy Spirit

But you left out the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

The King James allows Repentance (IMHO) possible separation from the name of Jesus. The other translations tend not to easily allow my thought.

Repentance (from sin) is a turn from sin.
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)

Acts 29:3 kjv
3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

And, he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

To me Repentance is the knowledge of sin revealed by the law. ( using the law lawfully). (Without the law there is no knowledge of sin).
But the Gentiles know the law by the law being placed in their hearts and minds). So the one new man is aware of both the written law and the law written on a heart of flesh and on the mind of Christ in us.
Regretfully I spend time in both Jewish thoughts and Gentile thoughts and try Desperately to present the one new man concept.

Knowledge of something doesn't equate to turning from something.

To you using John’s baptism is linked to the name of Jesus.

Agreed, as we are now to use the name of Jesus Christ for our water baptisms into Christ and into His death and burial.

Using other translations makes my thought harder to present.

Quit using them then.

I will stop here ( you asked a question).

I spent 12 years in John’s baptism.

I don't know what that means.

Two years in Jesus Christ before
Jesus baptizing me in the Holy Spirit.

That is the gift of the Holy Ghost that Peter promised would be given to those who repented of sin and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...in Acts 2:38.

(We do sometimes have different experiences).
Mississippi redneck
eddif

Has your "way" allowed you to live without sinning?

 

[eddif]

But you left out the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

Repentance (from sin) is a turn from sin.
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)

And, he baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

Knowledge of something doesn't equate to turning from something.

Agreed, as we are now to use the name of Jesus Christ for our water baptisms into Christ and into His death and burial.

Quit using them then.

I don't know what that means.

That is the gift of the Holy Ghost that Peter promised would be given to those who repented of sin and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...in Acts 2:38.

Has your "way" allowed you to live without sinning?

Ok both of us have spoken.
Time for others to evaluate.

eddif

 

[Cnkw3]

Confessing Jesus as Lord is the act of repenting, and therefore obeying the Gospel.


Shall I expound?




JLB

Thats not quite true. A homosexual can confess Jesus with the mouth but never then change their lifestyle. They may have confessed but never repented, therefore have not fully obeyed the gospel.

 

[Cnkw3]

Hi, I just like to disscus, the Baptism in the so called "great commission"

Q1 How were they to baptize according to scripture? Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

.. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

.. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Q1 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


So....they were to Baptize them by teaching them to do......

They were to baptize just as they had been doing for the three previous years. Immerse in water. But now the baptism would no longer be “Johns” baptism but would be NT baptism now commanded by Christ. This baptism looks back at the death burial and resurrection of Christ. Johns did not do that.

 

[Cnkw3]

I don't understand.

You mean there's a formula for getting saved?

What is it?

Of course there is. Do you have to hear the gospel message? Do you have to know who jesus is?
Do you have to believe the information we have been given about Jesus?
Do you have to repent? Of course you do. Lk 13:3 Ac 2:38, 3:19, 17:30
Do you have to confess? Yes. Acts 8:37, Rom 10:9-10. Matt 10:32
Do you have to be immersed in water? Yes. Mk 16:16, ac 2:38, ac 22:16, Rom 6:1-4, 1 Pet 3:21
Which one of these do you think you can omit and still be pleasing to God?
Since when does God let you pick and choose how to be obedient to him?
People scoff at the idea of a “formula” but its not me that said it. Paul also lays out a formula for salvation. Read Rom 10;13-15. Here Paul lays out steps one is to perform that ultimately leads to salvation. So….yes following a pattern is a biblical doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course there is. Do you have to hear the gospel message? Do you have to know who jesus is?
Do you have to believe the information we have been given about Jesus?
Do you have to repent? Of course you do. Lk 13:3 Ac 2:38, 3:19, 17:30
Do you have to confess? Yes. Acts 8:37, Rom 10:9-10. Matt 10:32
Do you have to be immersed in water? Yes. Mk 16:16, ac 2:38, ac 22:16, Rom 6:1-4, 1 Pet 3:21
Which one of these do you think you can omit and still be pleasing to God?
Since when does God let you pick and choose how to be obedient to him?
People scoff at the idea of a “formula” but its not me that said it. Paul also lays out a formula for salvation. Read Rom 10;13-15. Here Paul lays out steps one is to perform that ultimately leads to salvation. So….yes following a pattern is a biblical doctrine.

What if I never heard the gospel message?
Can I still love God and be saved?

Here's what i believe the formula is:
Believe in God
Know you need Him
Serve Him

And
IF one has heard of Jesus in the correct way, then they should understand that He is God.

 

[Cnkw3]

What if I never heard the gospel message?

Then you can’t be saved.

Can I still love God and be saved?

God said…If you love me you will keep MY commandments. Not the commandments of some preacher you might like.

Here's what i believe the formula is:
Believe in God
Know you need Him
Serve Him

Can you show this to me in the Bible? Is this the formula we see in conversion examples in the book of acts?

And
IF one has heard of Jesus in the correct way, then they should understand that He is God.

The key there is….”in the correct way”. That only comes through book, chapter, and verse. 1 Pet 4:11

 

[GodsGrace]

Then you can’t be saved.

God said…If you love me you will keep MY commandments. Not the commandments of some preacher you might like.

Can you show this to me in the Bible? Is this the formula we see in conversion examples in the book of acts?

The key there is….”in the correct way”. That only comes through book, chapter, and verse. 1 Pet 4:11

I do believe your God is very narrow minded and you've stuck Him in a box somewhere oit there in the huge universe which He created.

You are aware that there was a time and many places where the bible was not known nor preached.

What happened to those souls?

 

[Cnkw3]

I do believe your God is very narrow minded and you've stuck Him in a box somewhere oit there in the huge universe which He created.

So. Is this the…..my god is bigger than your god defense?

You are aware that there was a time and many places where the bible was not known nor preached.

Oh yea! And still going on today.

What happened to those souls?

They are lost. Jesus said….I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but by me. Sounds pretty narrow to me.
What does jesus say about the way to heaven? narrow or wide?
Mat 7:13,14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I’m sorry you dont much care for the “narrow” way. But God, and yes this is “my God” tells us that it is the ONLY way to heaven. What a horrible, narrow and exclusive message..

 

[GodsGrace]

So. Is this the…..my god is bigger than your god defense?

Oh yea! And still going on today.

They are lost. Jesus said….I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but by me. Sounds pretty narrow to me.
What does jesus say about the way to heaven? narrow or wide?
Mat 7:13,14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I’m sorry you dont much care for the “narrow” way. But God, and yes this is “my God” tells us that it is the ONLY way to heaven. What a horrible, narrow and exclusive message..

What do you think Romans 1:19-21
Is telling us?

 

[GodsGrace]

I hope we agree.

Previous to the 400 years of silence, the law and prophets were taught.
(From Moses to John the Baptist)

Beginning with John the Baptist the the Kingdom began to be taught
(the one who comes after me will baptise you in the Holy Spirit and fire).

Jesus moved from the external law of Moses to internal abstract inner thoughts. Matthew chapters 5,6,7

So
The majority of people would see water. The Nile, Red Sea, washings, crossing Jordan.
But
The inner thoughts about:
Poor in spirit
Hunger and thirst for righteousness
etc.
these are new concepts to most.

If the concept of baptism is brought up, water is the major thought at the time of Jesus.

However
Immersion into abstract thoughts is more of a Greek concept (IMHO)
Not that Jesus taught Greek mythology, but Jesus taught Gods thoughts. Jesus taught the multitudes in parables ( external ) but taught the disciples about (inner) love, joy, etc.

Really the Baptism at Pentecost is the real inner ( heart, mind immersion - law placed in heart and mind).
Language classes are sometimes taught as immersion classes. No word for word translations, but another language foreign to what has existed. (This is a hard concept for a redneck to explain).
Example
A gentile had to be immersed in the concepts of God. Leaving their Godless former beliefs behind, and becoming immersed in The one true God . No paganism spoken, or hidden in this class.

eddif

Just reread this.
What a great, insightful post.
:nod

 

[GodsGrace]

Repenting and repenting of a sin is slightly different.


Repent is to turn to God.

Agreed.
A person could be sorry for a sin.
The sorrow might have to do with the fact that their action harmed them in some way.
But it has nothing to do with God.

Repenting from sin, or sin, means that the person has included God in his feelings
and has decided to turn to God for help.

 

[GodsGrace]

Would you care to explain how I am wrong?

Is it the baptism of John the Baptist?
Or the baptism into Jesus

Is it Jesus baptizing into the Holy Spirit and fire.

I am not interested in a debate, but you can point out the exact error.

eddif

Jesus said to be taught His teachings and to be baptized.
No debate!

In Acts it states to be baptized into the name of Jesus...

 

[Hopeful]

Agreed.
A person could be sorry for a sin.
The sorrow might have to do with the fact that their action harmed them in some way.
But it has nothing to do with God.

Repenting from sin, or sin, means that the person has included God in his feelings
and has decided to turn to God for help.

...and turn away from sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

...and turn away from sin.

Right.
If a person is turning toward God,
he is also turning away from something.
That would be the influence of sin, or the evil one.
One movement necessarily requires the other...

 

[jerry63935]

I believe this Baptism is not of water...

2 baptism water baptism spirit baptized into the body of Christ. which is the most important one