Believing in Wrong Doctrine: Will I lose my salvation?

[chessman]

Then simply read my previous answer. Or better yet, Paul’s complete sentence to Timothy (without assumption) as to what it means to “depart from the faith” in this passage.

What assumption are you referring to?

The portion in red. You are assuming the phrase “depart from the faith” means something other than what Paul says it means within the very passage he uses it.

Just like someone asking the question; Have you stopped beating your wife? is assuming you started beating your wife to begin with, you are assuming the person who is forbiding marriage or forbiding certain foods was ever saved to begin with.

My theology is not based on assumptions.

 

[chessman]

This is not an easy concept for some to understand.

Okay, gotcha. So can you help me out then by answering a question:

Once, a man is a priest, he can no longer marry...

So once a man is a priest, is he forbidden to marry?

 

[GodsGrace]

the pulpit so often is loaded in junk issues balance between trying to feed the Church and preach to the lost ..until the church gets rights nothing else will be right.. i been thinking when was last time any one heard a message from 1 john 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

but we hear all the in between the great falling away etc .. when was last time anyone heard of the assurance of there salvation? check this out
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

let me not leave this out obedience .. i cant prove either way you can or you can not ..everyone cherry picks scriptures .. so when we sin it appears we have allowed the devil to use us... flip wilson use to say the devil made me do it... no we did it because we had a lust of the flesh..
the sinful man is still there the old story of the man who had 2 dogs which one wins the fight . the one he feeds the most...

feed our spirit man we get spiritually fat.. feed our old fleshy side we get sinfully fat.

we reap what we sow . which should we focus on holiness or sinfulness ? there is your answer

Ezra,
I don't think the devil makes us do anything. But when we do sin, we certainly are responding to the evil one.

We should always focus on holiness. Philippians 4:8 is one of my favorite verses.

However, I do want to ask you what you mean about us not sinning. I hear this...that born again believers cannot sin...
How do you mean this? Don't we all still sin?

As to 1 John 3:9, my bible (nasb) says "practices" sin...
This means to live a life of sin...
Do you distinguish a difference between sinning and living a life of sin? It's two different things...

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay, gotcha. So can you help me out then by answering a question:


So once a man is a priest, is he forbidden to marry?

He was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest.

He CHOSE not to marry.

A person either understands this or doesn't.
Priests understand it.

 

[chessman]

He was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest.

Got it, thanks. So he was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest. Check

So once a man IS a priest, is he ALSO forbidden to marry?

 

[ezra]

The portion in red. You are assuming the phrase “depart from the faith” means something other than what Paul says it means within the very passage he uses it.

Just like someone asking the question; Have you stopped beating your wife? is assuming you started beating your wife to begin with, you are assuming the person who is forbiding marriage or forbiding certain foods was ever saved to begin with.

My theology is not based on assumptions.

The word “apostasy” means “a standing away from” in the sense of a falling away, withdrawal, or defection from the truth. ya all are arguing ( i know there is no such thing allowed.} but sigh* it worse than a court room answer my question sounds like a room full of attorneys ..

the falling away we really dont understand other than what scripture say. might i ask what difference does it make who forbids who or what to marry . your gnat straining

 

[GodsGrace]

Got it, thanks. So he was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest. Check

So once a man IS a priest, is he ALSO forbidden to marry?

Your demeaning posts are very undesirable to me.

I take time to answer you and you NEVER understand me...so I somewhat feel like I'm wasting my time.

If a person is forbidden to do something, it means someone is telling him not to do a certain thing. If you FORBID me to go see a movie ever again,,,it means I will no longer be able to go see any movie ever again.

If you tell me I must wash the dishes OR be forbidden to go see movies,,,then it's MY CHOICE to either wash the dishes or not wash the dishes.

If I wash them, I get to see movies.
If I don't wash them, I'll l never see a movie again.

It becomes MY CHOICE as to whether or not I ever see a movie again.

You don't like analogies,,,like the one about departing from India meaning I'M LEAVING India...but, alas, it's the only way I know of to clarify what I'm saying to you.

Men KNOW they will not be able to marry IF they become a priest.

SO...

It's THEIR decision whether to marry, OR become a priest.
It's THEIR CHOICE.

Not marrying is just another condition...like any other condition in being a priest....

You may wish to be sarcastic with my replies and in your attitude, the fact is that I happen to know priests personally and they understand that they cannot be FORBIDDEN something they KNEW would be a CONDITION.

 

[GodsGrace]

The word “apostasy” means “a standing away from” in the sense of a falling away, withdrawal, or defection from the truth. ya all are arguing ( i know there is no such thing allowed.} but sigh* it worse than a court room answer my question sounds like a room full of attorneys ..

the falling away we really dont understand other than what scripture say. might i ask what difference does it make who forbids who or what to marry . your gnat straining

Amen!

 

[chessman]

It's called a red herring. Take a read HERE.

OzSpen ,

In a discussion (mind you not a logical debate but just a simple discussion), when one person says;
“You only sin when you KNOW it's a sin.”

and another person says;
“If a person when he sins violates one from all of Yahweh’s commands that should not be violated, but he did not know, then he is guilty and he shall bear his guilt.

do these two persons agree or disagree?

 

[ezra]

As to 1 John 3:9, my bible (nasb) says "practices" sin...
This means to live a life of sin...
Do you distinguish a difference between sinning and living a life of sin? It's two different things...

you answered your own question as per sin sin is sin not matter if or you do it. the difference would be living in continuous sin ( no repenting no asking forgiveness } practices -- to do or perform often, customarily, or habitually .. to him who knows to do good and does not is SIN ..we have sin of omission and sin of commission

I hear this...that born again believers cannot sin...
How do you mean this? Don't we all still sin?

what does 1 john 3 say? i did not write this or make it up.. paul wrote
Romans 6:14-23 King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
14 For sin will not rule over you, because you are not under the law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Should we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Absolutely not! 16 Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone[a] as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey—either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching to which you were handed[b]over, 18 and having been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness. 19 I am using a human analogy because of the weakness of your flesh.[c] For just as you offered the parts of yourselves as slaves to impurity, and to greater and greater lawlessness, so now offer them as slaves to righteousness, which results in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free with regard to righteousness.[d]21 So what fruit was produced[e] then from the things you are now ashamed of? The outcome of those things is death. 22 But now, since you have been set free from sin and have become enslaved to God, you have your fruit, which results in sanctification—and the outcome is eternal life! 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

i dont have full understanding of this either .but i stand by what scripture says..
back to my point you answered your own question

We should always focus on holiness. Philippians 4:8 is one of my favorite verses. this is where as Christians where and what are focus should be . its like driving a car it is possible we can wreck ..sometimes we take our eye off the road and if not careful crash ***** keep our eyes on the prize ? { JESUS } Hebrews 12 ..i know you cringe when you read the words osas eternal security . i use to be same way but as i study scripture i have learned i am secure in Christ . but that security does give me a reason to sin or even excuse . it means if i do and i will i have advocate .. try being a Muslim woman and go against the grain. as Christians you can run to the foot of the Cross as many times as you need.. unlimited grace /mercy

 

[chessman]

I take time to answer you and you NEVER understand me.

I understood you. I even said so, and said thanks.

Got it, thanks.

I meant what I said. Did you take it as if I didn’t understand you or didn’t appreciate your time? If that’s the case, you misunderstood me.

Your demeaning posts are very undesirable to me.

How was my post demeaning? I was simply asking you another question:

So once a man IS a priest, is he ALSO forbidden to marry?

I think we are making some progress here. Let’s not stop just because we have disagreements. There’s a lot about this passage and priests which we agree on.

It's THEIR decision whether to marry, OR become a priest.
It's THEIR CHOICE.

I agree.

Not marrying is just another condition...like any other condition in being a priest.

I agree.

You may wish to be sarcastic with my replies and in your attitude,

No, I don’t wish to be sarcastic. So, getting back to the discussion, will you please answer the following question:

Once a man IS a priest, is he forbidden to marry?

 

[JLB]

The portion in red. You are assuming the phrase “depart from the faith” means something other than what Paul says it means within the very passage he uses it.

It refers to faith in Christ throughout the New Testament, as well as through 1 Timothy.


Here is the phrase used in the verses just before 1 Timothy 4:1.


For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:13


The faith is a reference to our common faith in Christ.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

OzSpen ,

In a discussion (mind you not a logical debate but just a simple discussion), when one person says;
“You only sin when you KNOW it's a sin.”

and another person says;
“If a person when he sins violates one from all of Yahweh’s commands that should not be violated, but he did not know, then he is guilty and he shall bear his guilt.

do these two persons agree or disagree?

I forgot to answer your last post to me about unknown sin not being sin.

Here are two examples:
1. Adam and Eve and original sin.
WHEN did man fall? When Eve ate or when Adam ate?
The answer is when Adam ate. Why? Because HE knew he was disobeying God,,,God told HIM not to eat of that tree. EVE did NOT know she was sinning...this is why ADAM is responsible for the fall of man...not Eve.
Romans 5:18-21
1 Corinthians 15:22


2. 1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How do we confess a sin we are not even aware of having committed? Does this mean a just God will not forgive us this sin of which we know nothing about?

 

[JLB]

The portion in red. You are assuming the phrase “depart from the faith” means something other than what Paul says it means within the very passage he uses it.

Here is the portion in red

assumption) as to what it means to “depart from the faith” in this passage.

How is this a definition of “the faith”.




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I understood you. I even said so, and said thanks.



I meant what I said. Did you take it as if I didn’t understand you or didn’t appreciate your time? If that’s the case, you misunderstood me.



How was my post demeaning? I was simply asking you another question:


I think we are making some progress here. Let’s not stop just because we have disagreements. There’s a lot about this passage and priests which we agree on.


I agree.

I agree.

No, I don’t wish to be sarcastic. So, getting back to the discussion, will you please answer the following question:

Once a man IS a priest, is he forbidden to marry?

Your reply in post 287:
Got it, thanks. So he was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest. Check

Yes. It is rather condescending. How do you "check" something you don't agree with UNLESS you're being sarcastic??

ONCE a man is a priest he IS forbidden to marry.
Your answer is YES.

But, apparently, we're stuck on the word FORBID.
I won't pursue this any longer...

 

[JLB]

Just like someone asking the question; Have you stopped beating your wife? is assuming you started beating your wife to begin with, you are assuming the person who is forbiding marriage or forbiding certain foods was ever saved to begin with.

My theology is not based on assumptions.

Paul by the Spirit says they “departed from” the faith.

If the Holy Spirit says a person departed from the faith, then we can be assured they were in the faith at one time.



JLB

 

[chessman]

How do we confess a sin we are not even aware of having committed?

Much like this:

The law of Yahweh is perfect, reviving life. Yahweh, please forgive me of not perfectly living according to your law.

The ordinances of Yahweh are true; they are righteous altogether. Yahweh, please forgive me for not being altogether righteous.

Yahweh, please acquit me from my hidden faults.

Does this mean a just God will not forgive us this sin of which we know nothing about?

No. It means He will forgive us sins of which we know nothing about.

When you accepted Christ as Lord and Savior, did you accept Him as Savior of all your sins or just some of them?

 

[chessman]

Yes. It is rather condescending. How do you "check" something you don't agree with UNLESS you're being sarcastic??

I wasn’t disagreeing (or being sarcastic). I was agreeing with your statement. You simply misunderstood me. That’s okay though. No big deal.

He was forbidden to marry BEFORE he became a priest.

I agree.

ONCE a man is a priest he IS forbidden to marry.
Your answer is YES.

I agree.

So, like I said to begin with, priests are forbidden to marry in these latter days.

Are priests saved or unsaved?

 

[JLB]

The word “apostasy” means “a standing away from” in the sense of a falling away, withdrawal, or defection from the truth. ya all are arguing ( i know there is no such thing allowed.} but sigh* it worse than a court room answer my question sounds like a room full of attorneys ..

the falling away we really dont understand other than what scripture say. might i ask what difference does it make who forbids who or what to marry . your gnat straining

So true.

The warning from the Holy Spirit to us, is about false doctrine that can lead a person to depart from the faith.


Chessman is saying the term “the faith” does not refer to faith in Christ.


What does this term “the faith” mean to you when you read it, as it is used throughout 1 Timothy as well as the New Testament.



JLB

 

[chessman]

You had asked me what assumption of yours I was referring to:

What assumption are you referring to?

I answered that question. Not another question.

How is this s definition of “the faith”

Again, Paul tells us exactly what he meant by the phrase “depart from the faith” highlighted in red (and even why some will do this highlighted in green) all within the very same sentence. I agree with what Paul meant by “depart from the faith” (and why) and I disagree with your assumed meaning.

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying-attention-to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons by means of the hypocrisy of liars having been seared as to their own conscience— forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created for a receiving with thanksgiving by the ones who are believers and know the truth.​

1 Timothy 4:1-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:1-3&version=DLNT