Believing in Wrong Doctrine: Will I lose my salvation?

[JLB]

Does a bachelor meet this requirement?

Please post the scripture you are referring to so we can see how the word bachelor is used by Paul.


Was Paul qualified or disqualified for that position?


Hint:

For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 1 Corinthians 7:7



JLB

 

[chessman]

I skimmed through the above...no. 7 says that this is confirming previous rules.

Actually it confirmed the “path trod by our predecessors”, not previous rules. (I have a point to help answer your question. It’s not Just quibbling over words).

I seem to remember that this practice of celibacy started before the above mentioned council.

Yes, I said that “by the year 1139” they felt confident enough to issue those canons. It was a “path trod by our predecessors” prior to that date but directly contradicts the Scripture I posted.

Also, you call this departing from the faith. Herein lies the problem...why call it departing from the faith??

It’s not a problem for me. I call it that because it’s one of the two examples Paul also uses to tell Timothy what it means to “depart from the faith” in 1 Tim 4:1-3. Some posters have disagreed with my claim in this thread (which not a problem) and some have agreed with me (also not a problem). But nobody had shown any evidence where the RCC forbidding marriage among its priests, bishops, and nuns is not exactly one of the examples Paul is taking about there.

Are priests saved?

 

[WIP]

Okay but according to this Text, the overseers of the church “must be” a husband ( es have only one “wife”, i.e. not zero or two or three wives).

Therefore the overseer must be irreproachable, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,​

1 Timothy 3:2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 3:2&version=LEB

Just as much as he “must be”, irreproachable, skilled in teaching, etc. he must be a “husband”.

it’s trustworthy sYing (doctrine/teaching) which didn’t originate with Paul, though he’s teaching it to Timothy:

The saying is trustworthy: if anyone aspires to supervision, he desires a good work.​

1 Timothy 3:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 3:1&version=LEB

I kind of make this point not so much to disagree with you (one of my former pastors held your view) but to relate it directly back to the OP question. I am aware of the differing interpretations, indeed the fact that the Greek words for “husband” and “wife” could be translated “man” and “woman.

But here’s my point: You and I are both saved, right?

I don't see how our different interpretations of the text determines our salvation.

 

[chessman]

Please post the scripture you are referring to so we can see how the word bachelor is used by Paul.

I was referring to your statement which I quoted, then asked you a question about it which you didn’t answer.

 

[chessman]

I don't see how our different interpretations of the text determines our salvation.

Me either.

 

[JLB]

I was referring to your statement which I quoted, then asked you a question about it which you didn’t answer.

Please post the scripture you are referring to so we can see how the word bachelor is used by Paul.


Was Paul qualified or disqualified for that position?


Hint:

For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. 1 Corinthians 7:7



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually it confirmed the “path trod by our predecessors”, not previous rules. (I have a point to help answer your question. It’s not Just quibbling over words).


Yes, I said that “by the year 1139” they felt confident enough to issue those canons. It was a “path trod by our predecessors” prior to that date but directly contradicts the Scripture I posted.


It’s not a problem for me. I call it that because it’s one of the two examples Paul also uses to tell Timothy what it means to “depart from the faith” in 1 Tim 4:1-3. Some posters have disagreed with my claim in this thread (which not a problem) and some have agreed with me (also not a problem). But nobody had shown any evidence where the RCC forbidding marriage among its priests, bishops, and nuns is not exactly one of the examples Paul is taking about there.

Are priests saved?

C,
After dinner when I have more time, I'm going to reply better regarding 1 Timothy 4:1-3. I'd like to do that. Also, I'd like to go back to what we were discussing re a sin not being designated to us if we don't know it's a sin. This seems important to me.

As to are priests saved...
Some are and some aren't.

What do YOU think?

 

[chessman]

You only sin when you KNOW it's a sin.
For a sin to be a sin, you must have knowledge that it's a sin.

wondering , have you been convinced yet that your theology, as stated above, is incorrect?

 

[chessman]

As to are priests saved...
Some are and some aren't.

What do YOU think?

Same as you on that one

You realize I love you (even if we disagree on some things), right?

 

[JohnDB]

C,
After dinner when I have more time, I'm going to reply better regarding 1 Timothy 4:1-3. I'd like to do that. Also, I'd like to go back to what we were discussing re a sin not being designated to us if we don't know it's a sin. This seems important to me.

As to are priests saved...
Some are and some aren't.

What do YOU think?

Actually there's scripture to this point...

Luke details several parables that Jesus told together to show the different types of sin. Each one being progressively worse. (All have the same punishment (death) but the forgiveness required becomes more difficult with the severity)

Lost Sheep...sin of ignorance
Lost Coin......sin of negligence
Lost (prodigal)Son.......two sins covered with this one...the son who went away knew that what he had planned was sinful but did it anyway. The angry son refused to forgive and join the celebration and this unforgiving/judgemental attitude is the most difficult for God to forgive.

But then Luke tells us the follow up to this (because we are human and can't forgive like God can) about the shrewd manager who forgave each person seemingly different proportions of their debts...but actually the amount of debt forgiven was equal amongst the various people. But some owed more than others and kept a larger portion of their debts. And since the manager did this he keeps his job... which is saying that we all have to forgive as much as we can...but perfection is God's and God's alone.

But this should answer the question about the types of sin.

 

[ezra]

wondering , have you been convinced yet that your theology, as stated above, is incorrect?

where is she wrong? most any christian should know what is sin .they have the spirit of truth..i cant say as if i agree %100 with either

 

[chessman]

most any christian should know what is sin

Most or all? What about new Christians that don’t know much about the commandments of God? And we were not necessarily talking about Christians anyway.

Transgression of God’s law is transgression whether someone knows the law or not. She disagreed with this. Do you?

where is she wrong?

She said:
1.

Transgress means to disobey a KNOWN law of God.

Actually, it means to disobey any law. I showed her this from a Bible dictionary.

And I provided Scriptures that demonstrate sin by individuals that didn’t even know they’d sinned. And there’s more too (old and New Testament).


2.

If you transgress the speed limit, it necessarily means you KNEW the speed limit and broke it anyway.

This is incorrect on a secular definition as well. If you transgress a speed limit, you have broken the speed limit. It doesn’t matter if you KNEW (all caps or small) what the speed limit was.

And it’s a topic related to the OP.

“If a person when he sins violates one from all of Yahweh’s commands that should not be violated, but he did not know, then he is guilty and he shall bear his guilt.Leviticus 5:17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Leviticus 5:17&version=LEB

What do you think after reading this passage;

If a person violates one of Yahweh’s commands that shouldn’t be violated is he quilty, whether he knew the command or not?

 

[Northman]

On phone...I'm limited.
What about James 4:17??

I think that statement in James means exactly what it says. If you know to do something good but choose not to it, it is sin.

 

[stovebolts]

wondering and chessman

Luke 12:47-48 New International Version (NIV)
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Within context, there are two types of sin.

First is willfull sin. That is to say one knows better, but disregards the commandment anyway.
The second is unwillful sin. That is to say you didn't know any better

The first example of both take place with Adam and Eve. Eve's sin was unwillful while Adams was willfull. 1 Timothy 2:14 and Romans 5:12

 

[chessman]

The second is unwillful sin. That is to say you didn't know any better

Correct.

Put another way; Is unknown sin, sin?

 

[stovebolts]

chessman
You said,

Transgression of God’s law is transgression whether someone knows the law or not.

I don't think it's always that cut and dry. Israel was held to 613 of God's Laws to which most were specific to them via covenant. We Christians are obedient to the laws of Christ (Galatians 6:2) via the new covenant (Matthew 26:27).

What laws are non believers under?

 

[chessman]

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

Do you know why Jesus said “seventy times seven”?

Then Peter came up to him and said, “Lord, how many times will my brother sin against me and I will forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!​

Matthew 18:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 18:21-22&version=LEB

 

[stovebolts]

Correct.

Put another way; Is unknown sin, sin?

Sin meaning we are living contrary to how God would have us live, yes.

My post above outlined 3 cases where God's Laws we're specific to a people. For example, a foreman has additional rules from a line worker. Both share a common set of rules, but the foreman has more because his duties are more. In short, the line worker is not governed by all the rules that apply to the foreman.

Do you know why Jesus said “seventy times seven”?

Then Peter came up to him and said, “Lord, how many times will my brother sin against me and I will forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!​

Matthew 18:21-22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 18:21-22&version=LEB

Academically, it's been to many years since I studied that. I'm sure it will come back to me when I wake up in the morning lol!

But I get the gist.

 

[stovebolts]

Actually there's scripture to this point...

Luke details several parables that Jesus told together to show the different types of sin. Each one being progressively worse. (All have the same punishment (death) but the forgiveness required becomes more difficult with the severity)

Lost Sheep...sin of ignorance
Lost Coin......sin of negligence
Lost (prodigal)Son.......two sins covered with this one...the son who went away knew that what he had planned was sinful but did it anyway. The angry son refused to forgive and join the celebration and this unforgiving/judgemental attitude is the most difficult for God to forgive.

But then Luke tells us the follow up to this (because we are human and can't forgive like God can) about the shrewd manager who forgave each person seemingly different proportions of their debts...but actually the amount of debt forgiven was equal amongst the various people. But some owed more than others and kept a larger portion of their debts. And since the manager did this he keeps his job... which is saying that we all have to forgive as much as we can...but perfection is God's and God's alone.

But this should answer the question about the types of sin.

I liked the way you put those examples together. Well done!

 

[chessman]

What laws are non believers under?

Remaining in un-belief (not believing), being unmerciful, murder, greediness, deceit, adultery, disobedience to parents, and such.

Basically being filled with unrighteousness.

The heart of non-believers is desperately... what’s the word ... oh yea, wicked.