Believing Must Be The First Step, Right?

[Anchor Of Hope]

Peter, Laid the Foundation the Church would be built on. It’s amazing the Sweet Lord Of Heaven and earth, would make the plan of Salvation so simple by putting it in ONE verse of Scripture in the whole Bible.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

I don't know what you're referring to.

Acts 2:38

 

[Free]

Acts 2:38

And so you just ignore the rest of the NT?

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

I don't know what you're referring to.

Acts 2:38

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

A paraphrase. " i find another law at work inside myself, for the bad I don't want to do i keep on doing but the good i want to do i do not do, who will save me?"

Christians continue to sin throughout their lives. Even the Apostle Paul.
We never become good people.. one sin disqualifies us forever. We are forgiven.. no pride, no judgment just thankfulness.

Apostle Paul taught the Roman Church in Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You may continue in sin, but there will be no excuses when we stand before the Lord.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

And so you just ignore the rest of the NT?

Not at all, I’m talking about the Plan of Salvation, the Epistles were written to the Churches that had already obeyed Acts 2:38. The Epistles were written to the Churches for
Instruction
Reproof
Correction
Guidance
The Book of Revelation is a Book of Prophecy
Matthew Mark Luke and John are the Gospel of Jesus Christ about His Birth, His Ministry, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
The Book of Acts is the History Book of the Church, its beginning, The Apostles Doctrine.
As long as we know how to keep the Word of God in context we will do alright.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Do you think that "washing away sins" is different than forgiveness?


You might have provided a verse, but there are a lot of verses in the Bible. Simply providing a verse doesn't mean that one has understood it and that it says what they think it says.


Peter is not saying that water baptism itself is a means of salvation, of removing sins. As I stated previously, baptism does not remove "dirt from the body," that is, it doesn't cleanse. "Dirt" must be a metaphor for "sin," otherwise that phrase is meaningless sin physical cleanliness has nothing to do with salvation; pointing that would be pointless. That means baptism itself does not actually save (justify) and is not how we are declared righteous. So, Peter makes sure to clarify what he means by "baptism . . . now saves you" by stating that baptism doesn't cleanse.

Baptism is a public sign of an inward faith, of the work of renewal and washing by the Holy Spirit already completed, as indicated by it being "an appeal to God for a good conscience." And that in itself is based on the death and "resurrection of Jesus Christ," which is also a symbol of water baptism as Paul states.

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

There is a fair bit packed into this one verse. First, no righteous works save us, none whatsoever, which would include baptism. Second, it is only by God's mercy that we are saved. Third, salvation is brought about "by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."

Jesus is the one who said Water Baptism is essential: Mark 16:16 (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Whatever]

on the very first day the Church began

You have to put away your Scofield reference Bible.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

What do you think unbelieving Jews were broken out of? It wasn't Israel.
What do you think believing Gentiles are grafted into? It isn't Israel.
What do you think the Olive Tree is?

It is the congregation (ekklēsia) that has existed since the beginning. Yes the ekklēsia went from Old Covenant rule to New Covenant rule, but it did not start in Acts. The English word "church" didn't even exist back then.

But since this isn't the eschatology forum, I will shut up.

 

[Free]

Not at all, I’m talking about the Plan of Salvation, the Epistles were written to the Churches that had already obeyed Acts 2:38. The Epistles were written to the Churches for
Instruction
Reproof
Correction
Guidance
The Book of Revelation is a Book of Prophecy
Matthew Mark Luke and John are the Gospel of Jesus Christ about His Birth, His Ministry, His Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
The Book of Acts is the History Book of the Church, its beginning, The Apostles Doctrine.
As long as we know how to keep the Word of God in context we will do alright.

But there are other things stated in the NT which suggest that your understanding of Acts 2:38 is not correct. Even the grammar of Acts 2:38 itself suggests an incorrect understanding. From A. T. Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament:

'And be baptized every one of you (kai baptisthētō hekastos hūmōn). Rather, “And let each one of you be baptized.” Change of number from plural to singular and of person from second to third. This change marks a break in the thought here that the English translation does not preserve. The first thing to do is make a radical and complete change of heart and life. Then let each one be baptized after this change has taken place, and the act of baptism be performed “in the name of Jesus Christ”.'

That is, baptism is separate from repentance for sin and comes after a person is saved (justified).

Another issue is that Acts documents the things over a period of around three decades, including while some, like Paul, were on missionary journeys (Acts timeline). The primary purpose of Acts is not doctrine; that is largely what the epistles are for. And, we must not forget the doctrine that is in the gospels, namely:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
...
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
...
Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
Joh 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Why does neither Jesus nor John mention baptism for salvation, but only believing in Jesus, in his name?

And what else does Acts say?

Act 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

When did baptism happen? After the fact:

Act 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Act 11:17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?”

Act 15:11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

Act 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

(All ESV.)

Just in those two books alone, there is a lot of believing "in the Lord Jesus" for salvation, and neither Jesus nor John mention baptism for salvation. The only mention of baptism in that context (Acts 2:38) likely means after having already believed. And that is actually what we see throughout Acts--people believe and then are baptized.

Do you know that the Bible speaks of salvation using three different terms--justification, sanctification, and glorification--to represent a past event, an ongoing reality, and a future fulfillment?

I have repeatedly asked this question which you have yet to provide an actual answer. Why is that?

 

[Free]

Jesus is the one who said Water Baptism is essential: Mark 16:16 (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

First, that verse may not be original (all of Mark 16:9-20), but added later by someone other than Mark. Second, notice that baptism isn't mentioned for those that don't believe.

 

[onlysaved]

Apostle Paul taught the Roman Church in Romans 6:1-2 (KJV)
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You may continue in sin, but there will be no excuses when we stand before the Lord.

Keep reading to chapter 7.
Paul makes it clear that we WILL sin.

That's why we ask forgiveness. That's why we make every effort to avoid sin. But we're simply frail humans and we will despite our best efforts sin. What we don't do is live continually in our sin. While it's true we each may struggle with certain sins we do not wallow in them and continue in them but we will all sin. Not only that we become more conscious of sins about which we may have been ignorant of before.

I do not know how anyone can look honestly at the example of Christ then think themselves any type of good by comparison. The more I look at Jesus, the more corrupt and deprived and in need of grace I see that I am.

 

[JLB]

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Was it a coincidence that Acts 2:1-4 describes exactly this: Acts 2:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

We all see the context of becoming born again.

Believing in Him.

‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved —you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31

 

[Hopeful 2]

Romans were in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, they heard Peter Preach the Foundational message to the Church. They obeyed his message, that’s why Apostle Paul addressed them as the Church at Rome.

Why is it so hard for you to understand all of the Epistles were written to the Churches that had already repented and been Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ and were filled with the Holy Ghost speaking with other tongues.

It isn't hard to understand at all.
Why don't you think I understand it ?
Keep in mind that not everyone at a church was necessarily converted, as the Corinthians were shown.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Here is the Gospel of Christ
1. His Death
2. His Burial
3. His Resurrection

Amen, though I would have added "for our sins" to number 1.

The Doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is this, and is the Spiritual Application of His Work of Salvation.
1. Repentance = Death to sins
2. Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ = His Burial.
3. Baptism of the Holy Ghost = His Resurrection.
This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and it’s Spiritual implementation in our life as New Born Children of God.

Nice similes, but not a gospel.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Do you think that "washing away sins" is different than forgiveness?

Yes.

You might have provided a verse, but there are a lot of verses in the Bible.

I agree, but those are the ones pertinent to the discussion.

Simply providing a verse doesn't mean that one has understood it and that it says what they think it says.

No, it doesn't.
Are you admitting you don't understand the verses ?

Peter is not saying that water baptism itself is a means of salvation, of removing sins.

I disagree, as no sins will be entering into heaven, so must not be o=present on the day of Christ's return.

As I stated previously, baptism does not remove "dirt from the body," that is, it doesn't cleanse.

Baptism doesn't cleanse the vessel of the repentant from dirt.
It washes away past sins, if done in the name of Jesus Christ.

"Dirt" must be a metaphor for "sin,"

Nope, as Peter is differentiating between OT washings of dirt only, with NT baptism in Christ's name that remits past sins.

otherwise that phrase is meaningless sin physical cleanliness has nothing to do with salvation; pointing that would be pointless. That means baptism itself does not actually save (justify) and is not how we are declared righteous. So, Peter makes sure to clarify what he means by "baptism . . . now saves you" by stating that baptism doesn't cleanse.

Just as the ark saved in the OT, baptism saves in the NT.

Baptism is a public sign of an inward faith, of the work of renewal and washing by the Holy Spirit already completed, as indicated by it being "an appeal to God for a good conscience." And that in itself is based on the death and "resurrection of Jesus Christ," which is also a symbol of water baptism as Paul states.

Got at least one instance from Acts showing baptism being given for show ?
I'll just call that view unbiblical until, you can provide one.

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

Saved, by a washing !
Reiterating Peter's POV.

There is a fair bit packed into this one verse. First, no righteous works save us, none whatsoever, which would include baptism. Second, it is only by God's mercy that we are saved. Third, salvation is brought about "by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."

Sorry you understand it so very differently than I.
BTW, the only "works" written of that will not save, were ''of the Law.''
Circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, priesthoods, etc.
By diminishing/outlawing baptism, you officially countermand Jesus' commandments to the apostles before being raised to heaven. (Matt 28:19)
And Peter's commands from Acts 2:38.

 

[Hopeful 2]

1. I do not need to prove the thief did or did not do those things. All we need to know about him is that He witnessed Jesus's crucifixion and Jesus's behavior lead him to faith and salvation
2. The interval between his last sin and his punishment is irrelevant. What we know is that the thief was saved on account of his faith in Christ.
3. Jesus came to seek and save the lost.. there is no evidence that the thief ever encountered Jesus until he was on the cross next to Him.

There is no such thing as a good man. Following Christ doesn't make you good doing good things makes you good and the Bible is clear we are evil. We become more like Christ through the process of sanctification but that does not make us good. ONLY Jesus was good. How perfectly do we have follow Christ to be good? What if you screw up? Are you not good anymore? How much sin is allowed before you lose the "good" label?

Rebirth is instantaneous upon faith in Christ and nothing else can be added to it. Yes, we are obedient to Christ when we are baptized but baptism is a symbol of dying to sin and spiritual rebirth.
Paul didn't think excessively of baptism even to the point of saying " I don't remember who I baptized in fact I didn't come to baptize but to preach the Gospel.
Baptism is absolutely NOT a condition of salvation, it is a step of obedience that indicates repentance and salvation has already taken place.

Why is it we confess our sins regularly? It's because as sanctification takes place we become aware of more and more sin in our lives. Paul called this "sin living in us" As we learn of sin in our lives we confess it and endeavor to irradiate it from our lives.
The first thing we must repent of? Our lack of faith in Jesus.

"Of a man claims to be without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him"

Written pertaining to those who walk in darkness.
They are the ones who can't say they have no sin.

Believers in Christ like it or not produce bad seeds. Half of what Paul wrote to the various churches were admonition to churches that were in the wrong and what they needed to do to stop bearing bad fruit.

Lastly we are not under the law but under the promise.. the promise given to Abraham that reached it's fulfillment in Jesus Christ. If we believe God we are credited with righteousness apart from any works.
The works are what we do in gratitude for our salvation

Without a basis for your view, it becomes just your opinion.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Believing must be the first step , right ?

"Believing" goes deep and wide, it's not just taking in words on their face value. Intellectually accept God's words as the ultimate truth` and never question it is one thing, truly understand it, experience it, share it and let God's words transform you is quite another.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Acts 2:4 is about the baptism with the Holy Spirit not salvation.

The apostles were already saved when they believed the gospel.

That depends on your own criteria of salvation. According to the Lord himself, baptism with the Holy Spirit is necessary to enter the kingdom of God, that's the rebirth. The disciples were baptized in water by John the Baptist, but not in spirit until the Pentecost.

Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (Jn. 3:5)

 

[Free]

The disciples were baptized in water by John the Baptist,

Which disciples and where is that mentioned?

 

[JLB]

That depends on your own criteria of salvation. According to the Lord himself, baptism with the Holy Spirit is necessary to enter the kingdom of God, that's the rebirth.

Jesus says believing is the criteria to be born again.

Words of Christ in red -

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:7-15


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12