Bible Study Biblical inerrancy - even the talking donkey?

[Kmaxb]

What do most Christians really believe in regards to Biblical inerrancy? Is there flexibility?
Does Biblical inerrancy mean that every single detail must be exactly correct? The Old Testament has a story about a talking donkey. Could one doubt the literal historicity of that story but still believe the Bible is a book of inspired scripture?

 

[hawkman]

What do most Christians really believe in regards to Biblical inerrancy? Is there flexibility?
Does Biblical inerrancy mean that every single detail must be exactly correct? The Old Testament has a story about a talking donkey. Could one doubt the literal historicity of that story but still believe the Bible is a book of inspired scripture?

So the creator of the universe would have trouble making a donkey talk ?

 

[Kmaxb]

So the creator of the universe would have trouble making a donkey talk ?

No, it’s not a question of whether He could, but whether He would.
It’s just a very odd story. I have the same thoughts about the story of Samson. It’s weird, and it’s a very old story. Seems possible if not probable that it’s not literal.
Just to be clear I’m a Bible believer. I believe in the creation, the flood, Moses and the Exodus, and most importantly the divinity of Christ, his resurrection, his teachings, etc.
But when it comes to some of the odd little details in the Old Testament I often wonder what is literal and what might be a bit of mythology that found its way into the story.
Would that be considered a rejection of Biblical inerrancy?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Would that be considered a rejection of Biblical inerrancy?

Yeah, it kinda would : )

The question of inerrancy usually revolves around different issues than this, such as supposedly conflicting accounts of the same narratives. Here you are into questions of faith. For me, I don't see it as too far a stretch for the Lord to cause a donkey to talk either, since later in that story He causes a prophet to say things against his will as well. Speaking in tongues can also feel like this when it is strong, though as the scripture says, "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets," or in other words, the Spirit of God does not normally override our freewill.

If I may, why do you not think He could supernaturally accomplish things like in the stories of Balaam and Samson?

 

[Kmaxb]

I think He could do anything he pleases, I just wonder if He would do that. To me a small error in the story seems more likely than God deciding to make a Donkey speak. Both are possible.

A follow up question: Is it possible for a couple of stories from the Old Testament to be myth, and for the rest of the book to be true? Or does it have to be 100%?

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

I will suggest, that the Holy One has quoted many different kinds of people, in the production and delivery of His Holy Scripture, including Satan himself, evil angels allied with Satan, human beings driven and dominated by their sin, human beings exhibiting a mixture of behaviors, human beings driven and dominated by God Himself but exhibiting sin nonetheless, holy angels of God, and God Himself. I will suggest, that this is key to right division of the Word of Truth, the identification of who is quoted within. Beyond this, there is only His response to our prayer for better understanding over time.

 

[Who Me]

Is there flexibility?
Does Biblical inerrancy mean that every single detail must be exactly correct?

Biblical inerrancy is about the different literature in the bible, there is historical prose, poetic prose, apocalyptic prose, etc etc.
Jesus described himself as a door, we understand and so onthat this is a metaphor and so on.

We cannot really say what God could or should have done, all we know is what he did do.
Talking animals, burning bushes, ten plagues, floating axe heads, miraculous healing and instant infection, dead raised etc etc.

 

[Kmaxb]

Thank you for your responses. I hope I don’t come across as obnoxious or contentious if I throw out a few more questions.

In the miracle of the loaves and fishes, John says the food was provided by a boy. What if, just for arguments sake, the writer of the Gospel of John misremembered and it was actually a young girl who provided the food? The gender of the person is hardly significant to the story, in comparison to the miracle it precedes, and the frailty of human memory could easily produce such an error.
Is that kind of historical error possible in the view of one who holds to Biblical inerrancy?

 

[JLB]

Thank you for your responses. I hope I don’t come across as obnoxious or contentious if I throw out a few more questions.

In the miracle of the loaves and fishes, John says the food was provided by a boy. What if, just for arguments sake, the writer of the Gospel of John misremembered and it was actually a young girl who provided the food? The gender of the person is hardly significant to the story, in comparison to the miracle it precedes, and the frailty of human memory could easily produce such an error.
Is that kind of historical error possible in the view of one who holds to Biblical inerrancy?

Have you ever wondered how the Lord inspired Moses to write about detailed events that occurred thousands of years before he was born.

Moses wrote about the creation of the heavens and the earth…

He wrote about Adam and Eve and the exact words the devil spoke to Eve.

He wrote about Noah and the events of his day.

He wrote down detailed words that the Lord spoke to Abraham and the words of Sarah as she said “within her heart” (not out loud) at the thought of finally having a child at such an old age…

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
Genesis 18:12

Moses wrote these words of detailed things that happened thousands of years before he was born, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Moses wrote words that the Lord Jesus Himself quoted.

God is very detailed.

He once killed the high priest Aaron’s two sons because they used the wrong incense.

Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Leviticus 10:1-2

So the answer to your question about the boy with the two fish and five loaves as to whether it was a boy or a girl.

It was a boy.


For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

 

[Beetow]

.
An even better miracle than the talking donkey is Ahaz's sun dial at 2Kngs 8:8-11

Another like it is the stationary sun and moon at Josh 10:12-14

* Those two miracles suggest to me that the astronomical events predicted in the
book of Revelation are not only possible, but also quite probable.
_

 

[Kmaxb]

Have you ever wondered how the Lord inspired Moses to write about detailed events that occurred thousands of years before he was born.

Moses wrote about the creation of the heavens and the earth…

He wrote about Adam and Eve and the exact words the devil spoke to Eve.

He wrote about Noah and the events of his day.

He wrote down detailed words that the Lord spoke to Abraham and the words of Sarah as she said “within her heart” (not out loud) at the thought of finally having a child at such an old age…

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
Genesis 18:12

Moses wrote these words of detailed things that happened thousands of years before he was born, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Moses wrote words that the Lord Jesus Himself quoted.

God is very detailed.

He once killed the high priest Aaron’s two sons because they used the wrong incense.

Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Leviticus 10:1-2

So the answer to your question about the boy with the two fish and five loaves as to whether it was a boy or a girl.

It was a boy.


For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

I like it. So to put it simply, God inspired the various writers through the Holy Spirit such that every word was exact.

 

[Kmaxb]

Have you ever wondered how the Lord inspired Moses to write about detailed events that occurred thousands of years before he was born.

Moses wrote about the creation of the heavens and the earth…

He wrote about Adam and Eve and the exact words the devil spoke to Eve.

He wrote about Noah and the events of his day.

He wrote down detailed words that the Lord spoke to Abraham and the words of Sarah as she said “within her heart” (not out loud) at the thought of finally having a child at such an old age…

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
Genesis 18:12

Moses wrote these words of detailed things that happened thousands of years before he was born, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Moses wrote words that the Lord Jesus Himself quoted.

God is very detailed.

He once killed the high priest Aaron’s two sons because they used the wrong incense.

Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Leviticus 10:1-2

So the answer to your question about the boy with the two fish and five loaves as to whether it was a boy or a girl.

It was a boy.


For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

Were the early church fathers similarly inspired to know which original writings to include in the formation of the Bible as a book, and which ones to reject? Is it possible they could have missed something, or included something that should have been left out?

 

[hawkman]

No, it’s not a question of whether He could, but whether He would.
It’s just a very odd story. I have the same thoughts about the story of Samson. It’s weird, and it’s a very old story. Seems possible if not probable that it’s not literal.
Just to be clear I’m a Bible believer. I believe in the creation, the flood, Moses and the Exodus, and most importantly the divinity of Christ, his resurrection, his teachings, etc.
But when it comes to some of the odd little details in the Old Testament I often wonder what is literal and what might be a bit of mythology that found its way into the story.
Would that be considered a rejection of Biblical inerrancy?

I am baffled by your methodology of what you chose to doubt and then chose to believe . Explain for us .

 

[for_his_glory]

We who are God's own know what He has given the prophets and Apostles to write is truth as all His word is given for us to learn and know the ways Of God. Man can not teach us anything apart from the Holy Spirit who gives us what to say and do.


2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Kmaxb]

I am baffled by your methodology of what you chose to doubt and then chose to believe . Explain for us .

Good question. I'm not sure I have an exact methodology. I suppose with some of the odd stories of the Old Testament (Samson, Balaam, Lot and his Daughters, ) I just shrug my shoulders and don't worry about it. But I'm not convinced by arguments for inerrancy so I feel very comfortable doing that. If the story carries more weight, such as the Divine conception, death, and resurrection of Christ, thats a very different thing.

I'm not sure if thats a methodology. I guess I don't actually care if a Donkey spoke or not, its a weird story and seems more likely fable than fact (God can do anything, but would he?). Many Biblical scholars think the story of Job is not literal, which makes sense to me. If you compare it to the story of the flood it reads more like a play, whereas the story of the flood reads like factual history.

BUT when it comes to the reality of Christ, the question of historicity matters very much!

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Many Biblical scholars think the story of Job is not literal, which makes sense to me. If you compare it to the story of the flood it reads more like a play, whereas the story of the flood reads like factual history.

Hmmm... Ok, my first thought here would be to be careful of what scholars you are reading. There are faithless ones and then there are believing ones. If you read from the faithless types you are going to get "scholarship" that is badly skewed in favor of skepticism.

I guess I don't actually care if a Donkey spoke or not, its a weird story and seems more likely fable than fact (God can do anything, but would he?).

The Lord always has a reason, and in the case of Balaam's donkey there may have been several. Jewish commentators picked up on the obvious implication that the Lord was deliberately comparing Balaam to a "dumb ass," and how he could use a donkey to speak more wisdom than a prophet who got seduced into wanting money instead. It also shines the light on the fact that animals can think, and are actually highly sentient and sometimes considerate of humans, they just have not been given the ability to communicate verbally like we have.

The Lord has reasons for doing things that you and I might not understand, but He does them whether we think it seems strange or not.

 

[Kmaxb]

Hmmm... Ok, my first thought here would be to be careful of what scholars you are reading. There are faithless ones and then there are believing ones. If you read from the faithless types you are going to get "scholarship" that is badly skewed in favor of skepticism.


The Lord always has a reason, and in the case of Balaam's donkey there may have been several. Jewish commentators picked up on the obvious implication that the Lord was deliberately comparing Balaam to a "dumb ass," and how he could use a donkey to speak more wisdom than a prophet who got seduced into wanting money instead. It also shines the light on the fact that animals can think, and are actually highly sentient and sometimes considerate of humans, they just have not been given the ability to communicate verbally like we have.

The Lord has reasons for doing things that you and I might not understand, but He does them whether we think it seems strange or not.

Is it problematic to Biblical inerrancy if the book of Job isn't literal? How is that different from the parable of the prodigal son?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Is it problematic to Biblical inerrancy if the book of Job isn't literal?

Yes, LoL. James quotes from the story as if he was a historical figure.

How is that different from the parable of the prodigal son?

You have to use discernment. Pray to the Lord to distinguish which is which. The Lord does indeed use parables to teach things, and some people make accounts out to be "parables" that actually are not, such as the story of Lazarus, so you have receive teaching from the Holy Spirit Himself to know for certain which is which.

 

[JLB]

Were the early church fathers similarly inspired to know which original writings to include in the formation of the Bible as a book, and which ones to reject? Is it possible they could have missed something, or included something that should have been left out?

Did you read my post?

How did Moses know what Abraham’s wife Sarah said within herself, hundreds of years in the past?

How did Moses know the particular details of the Tabernacle that is in heaven, so he could follow the exact details in building the Tabernacle in the wilderness?

The Lord spoke to him, and thus inspired him to make a record of each and every detail.

 

[Kmaxb]

Yes, LoL. James quotes from the story as if he was a historical figure.


You have to use discernment. Pray to the Lord to distinguish which is which. The Lord does indeed use parables to teach things, and some people make accounts out to be "parables" that actually are not, such as the story of Lazarus, so you have receive teaching from the Holy Spirit Himself to know for certain which is which.

Thats a very strong argument! James could also make reference to the prodigal son, but that wouldn't make the prodigal son historical would it? By the way, I don't actually have a strong opinion either way on whether or not Job is historical. To me both arguments make some pretty good points.