biblical

[gingercat]

I can see, that I must be carefull in my words with you... you are not really interested in talking, but looking for any "loop hole" you can use.

It is so true in spiritual warfare.

 

[Henry]

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, AND YOU ARE ALL BROTHERS. And DO NOT CALL ANYONE ON EARTH YOUR FATHER: for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And DO NOT BE CALLED LEADERS; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted. (Matt. 23:8-12, NASB)

. . . You know that the rulers of the Gentiles LORD IT OVER THEM, and their great men EXERCISE AUTHORITY OVER THEM. IT IS NOT SO AMONG YOU, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many. (Matt. 20:25-28, NASB)


And again,


. . . The kings of the Gentiles LORD IT OVER THEM; and those who HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THEM are called ?Benefactors.' BUT NOT SO WITH YOU, but let him who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as the servant. (Luke 22:25-26, NASB)


Well ?

Jesus said not to use titles and not to have the same kind of leadership structures as the unsaved.

What do we have in modern churches???

Titles and the EXACT same kind of leadership structure in the world.

You want to argu with me, but all I am saying is LOOK what JESUS said and if you still think titles are OK for the church, then when did Jesus change his mind?

Here is a question, where is there any place at all in the NT any church leader is ever called by a title?

There is no single place what so ever.

So, if Jesus said NO and they DIDN'T what makes us so much better?

Time to take a closer look at the BIBLE and test modern church against it and see "if these things be true"

 

[Sothenes]

[And again,
. . . The kings of the Gentiles LORD IT OVER THEM; and those who HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THEM are called ?Benefactors.' BUT NOT SO WITH YOU, but let him who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as the servant. (Luke 22:25-26, NASB)


Well ?

Jesus said not to use titles and not to have the same kind of leadership structures as the unsaved.

What do we have in modern churches???

Titles and the EXACT same kind of leadership structure in the world.

Henry,

I don't see your point because our church teaches on the same verses and the pastor is just known by his first name. The parallel you are trying to draw between modern day churches and those few scriptures you sited are not properly exegeted.

 

[Sothenes]

The very word of God says that it is the Spirit of God which will lead us in all truth. If God wants a child to translate he can certainly do that, but what a narrow way to see things.

Can not God speak words through a Child that are simple and yet so full of truth?

God has preserved his written word and have given it to us in many languages, and thank God for that.

I can see, that I must be carefull in my words with you... you are not really interested in talking, but looking for any "loop hole" you can use.

I'm looking for mature and adult Christians and not babes that can be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

We don't want children running our services but we want adult Christians:

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[Henry]

11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

The text is not actually talking about children vs. adult, the text is using analogy to make a point. One that I totally agree with, that these Christians should be much more mature then are. Since they are not Paul is going to have to start again at the basics.

I don't see your point because our church teaches on the same verses and the pastor is just known by his first name.

You made my point “the pastor is just known by his first name†Call him what ever you want, never the less he is THE PASTOR by your own words, and so you have given a man a title and office that is not found ANYWHERE in the Bible.

The Bible knows nothing of “THE PASTORâ€Â

 

[Sothenes]

You made my point “the pastor is just known by his first name†Call him what ever you want, never the less he is THE PASTOR by your own words, and so you have given a man a title and office that is not found ANYWHERE in the Bible.

The Bible knows nothing of “THE PASTORâ€Â

"…look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature…for man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart" (1Sam. 16:7).

You are just looking on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

 

[gingercat]

You are just looking on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

Jesus also tells us to be salt and light in the world. If we don't look godly in obvious way, how can we be godly inside?

 

[Imagican]

The very word of God says that it is the Spirit of God which will lead us in all truth. If God wants a child to translate he can certainly do that, but what a narrow way to see things.

Can not God speak words through a Child that are simple and yet so full of truth?

God has preserved his written word and have given it to us in many languages, and thank God for that.

I can see, that I must be carefull in my words with you... you are not really interested in talking, but looking for any "loop hole" you can use.

I'm looking for mature and adult Christians and not babes that can be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.

No, Soth, you are looking mostly for someone to argue with. You completely dirregard what has been offered here and simply sit back and make snide remarks. You deny the Spirit if you deny what has been offered by it. Henry is telling 'truth'. If God chose a bunch of ignorant Gallileans to speak in tongues that they had NEVER learned, he could certainly choose a child to do His will as well.

And, as far as your statement above is concerned, I guess you think that you are 'smarter' than those that are or could be used by God. Says much about where your 'true' beliefs lie.

You seem to know much of the words in the Bible. Soth, instead of simply aguing using your knowledge of the Word, why not show us 'what' you have really learned of God's will?


Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

This you have taken COMPLETELY out of context. This was offered to a specific people for specific reasons which have absolutely NOTHING to do with what Henry offered. i will let others explain to you why Paul said this to them if you don't understand.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

We don't want children running our services but we want adult Christians:

May be what you want, but I would choose ANYONE that was filled with the Spirit verses someone simply trying to 'steal' my money, (or God's according to them). And there is much that you could learn from children Soth. Lack of 'false pride' for one.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I would suggest that you have neither tasted milk nor meat in the reference to the scripture that you have quoted. Your offering is out of context and simply used to illicit a response. I hope that you appreciate the one that you have received.

Love ya brother,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Henry,

Be not dismayed my brother. There are those that know only what they choose to see and the churches have done a relatively successful job at brainwasing those that follow them instead of God.

I appreciate your offerings, and while you and I may not agree 100 percent on every issue that we participate in together, I am well aware of your understanding.

Keep up the 'good fight' and never forget; the prophets and apsotles were mostly ridiculed and ignored also. It just goes to show how important their job was. For those that persecuted them most were the ones that NEEDED their understanding and the Word of God more than any others.

God Bless you brother,

MEC

 

[Henry]

Sothenes

You are just looking on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

Oh brother ! I am not looking at anything but what the Bible says, I have no idea if your pastor is a good guy or not and it really does not matter. The character of the man is not what makes what he does biblical or not.

The fact is that the Bible does not teach this modern day office of pastor, no matter how nice the man is his office is still not founded in the bible.

This is not about character and it is becoming disturbing that you want to make it about characters, this has nothing at all to do with characters.


Imagican

I am so shocked really at how many Christians become so quick to defend when the modern church structure is challenged. It is interesting that the reactions are very much the same as unsaved people’s reactions to the gospel when they are not willing or ready to hear it.

Such as “Who are you to say who is bad and who is not†and so on.

 

[gingercat]

Such as “Who are you to say who is bad and who is not†and so on.

Tell me about it!!!

 

[destiny]

Henry, I've been out of the organized church since august of 2004.
I believe it was God who moved us elsewhere for reasons I won't go into.
I spent the first 3 years during that time looking back and fingerpointing at the organized churches.
One day I woke up and realized that God wanted me to move beyond that, and I realized there were more crucial issues of today that I was missing out on because of my refusal to move on.
In all the home church circles, bad mouthing the churches has become a doctrine within itself.
In fact they seem to talk of very little else.
I have had to disassociate myself from the homechurch corporate movement.
It is ashame that God can't give man anything without it becoming a center for pride and backbiting.
God has had to humble me and make me see that I was misjudging by painting every church with the same broad brush.
There are still some good churches out there who honor God, and if they honor God He will work around the imperfections.
I would rather be in an organized church than sit in a home meeting that has nothing better to do for the kingdom than talk about the organized churches.
Get over it and move on, too many home church people are camped outside of what God has for them because they won't stop looking back.

 

[Vic C.]

With regard to your trite spelling lesson, Gary do you know the difference between these words: advice, advise? I've ignored that one for a long time.

Are people picking on Thess again? Awwww. 8-)

The blessings aren't for your approval of me. They are more of a prayer for you. I'm not hear seeking your approval.

My advice... don't advise anymore, ok? :-D :-D :-D

 

[Henry]

destiny


We do not sit around talking about the IC in our meetings, we eat and laugh and read the word of God and pray together.

This is a debate forum and so I am debating.

Understand that there is a difference in backbitting and pointing out error.

 

[mutzrein]

With regard to your trite spelling lesson, Gary do you know the difference between these words: advice, advise? I've ignored that one for a long time.

Are people picking on Thess again? Awwww. 8-)

The blessings aren't for your approval of me. They are more of a prayer for you. I'm not hear seeking your approval.

My advice... don't advise anymore, ok? :-D :-D :-D

Good won Vic. Eye like it. :wink:

 

[Vic C.]

Good won Vic. Eye like it. :wink:

LOL

Hey, he and I butt heads a lot, but Thess, I still like ya. 8-)

 

[Henry]

Acts 8:3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.

2. Romans 16:5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

3. 1 Corinthians 16:19 [ Final Greetings ] The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.

4. Colossians 4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

5. 1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Here they are people just a few verses, which show the early church met in houses. The next question is WHY did they do that? It was not persecution, when that started Paul knew right where to get them.

The next question after you learn the WHY is "Can we change what the biblical practice was?" or "Do we have more authority then the apostles"

 

[Sothenes]

Here they are people just a few verses, which show the early church met in houses. The next question is WHY did they do that? It was not persecution, when that started Paul knew right where to get them.

The next question after you learn the WHY is "Can we change what the biblical practice was?" or "Do we have more authority then the apostles"

"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."- John 16:2

"And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and comelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities."-Acts 26:11


Too bad they knew how to meet in Synagogues as well.

 

[thessalonian]

With regard to your trite spelling lesson, Gary do you know the difference between these words: advice, advise? I've ignored that one for a long time.

Are people picking on Thess again? Awwww. 8-)

The blessings aren't for your approval of me. They are more of a prayer for you. I'm not hear seeking your approval.

My advice... don't advise anymore, ok? :-D :-D :-D

Was that a 747 flying low overhead or did Vic just miss the point. Am I supposed to feel like a hypocrit? I think you missed the point. I DID NOT jump on his spelling as he did mine. I could really care less if he spelled advise wrong. I know I make spelling mistakes and typos.

 

[gingercat]

Good won Vic. Eye like it. :wink:

are you making fun of me :evil: