Bible Study But Election Isn't Fair!

[Tenchi]

These various beliefs only add more confusion, and it's nothing but diversion tactics.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, however in error it may be.

In Jesus's encounter with the woman at the well, Jesus went personal, which made the woman uncomfortable, in response she applied two tactics: first flattering Jesus by honoring him as a prophet, then changed the topic to a theological issue - where is the right place to worship?

So? Before you draw a parallel, you ought first to establish that it's legitimate, which you haven't done at all.

 

[Fish153]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

The condemnation or judgment against Adam and all since who are like him, flesh and blood man, is that they are to die and return to where they came from.

Jesus says that those who hear his word and believe on Him that sent him, has everlasting life, and shall not come into the condemnation of Adam by returning to the earth and never seeing life again. They have passed from that eternal punishment to life everlasting by resurrection from the dead.

Jhn 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Because Jesus is the resurrection and the life, he who believes in him and has died shall live again, forever.

Act 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

The Jewish leaders did not like that the disciples of Christ were preaching the resurrection from the dead. But without it there is no hope for those who have died.

Act 23:6
But when Paul perceived that the one part wereSadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Paul preached the hope of resurrection of the dead. The Sadducees didn’t believe in it.

Paul goes into great detail of the vital importance of the resurrection of the dead in 1 Cor 15.

If there is no resurrection of the dead, all hope is lost. And faith is worthless.

LeviR--- you are missing the whole point though. This eternal life that Jesus speaks of is given NOW. read the verse again:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

Everlasting life begins when we accept Christ and are Born-again. We are then IN CHRIST. You HAVE eternal life. the one WITH eternal life HAS PASSED from death unto life. Yes---there is a resurrection one day. But Jesus is talking about the SPIRITUALLY DEAD being MADE ALIVE. You are basically refusing to read the scriptures correctly----you only read them to FIT your theology. So, you are ignoring the MEANING that is right in front of your eyes. I said I wasn't going to post about this any more---but looks like I've done it again. I will try not to respond again. It is useless when one refuses to see.

 

[LeviR]

LeviR--- you are missing the whole point though. This eternal life that Jesus speaks of is given NOW. read the verse again:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED from death unto life.” (John 5:24)

Everlasting life begins when we accept Christ and are Born-again. We are then IN CHRIST. You HAVE eternal life. the one WITH eternal life HAS PASSED from death unto life. Yes---there is a resurrection one day. But Jesus is talking about the SPIRITUALLY DEAD being MADE ALIVE. You are basically refusing to read the scriptures correctly----you only read them to FIT your theology. So, you are ignoring the MEANING that is right in front of your eyes. I said I wasn't going to post about this any more---but looks like I've done it again. I will try not to respond again. It is useless when one refuses to see.

Everlasting life is a hope and a promise for those whom it is appointed once to die.
We are optimistic of this hope and promise so much so that we can claim it as our possession now. That is faith.
Faithful because God is faithful to keep His promises.

 

[Fish153]

"Beloved, NOW ARE WE the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is". (1 John 3: 2).

One last post: No---you are wrong:

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God". (1 John 5:13)

Eternal life is not something that we hope one day to receive at the Resurrection----scripture CLEARLY teaches that eternal life is something we possess NOW as regenerated Christians. In fact, we can KNOW that we HAVE it according to 1 John 5:13. This is not "presumptuousness"---this is TRUE FAITH in believing the Word of God and what it says. God WANTS US TO KNOW we have eternal life NOW. When we are BORN-AGAIN we are translated from DEATH unto LIFE. We are MADE ALIVE and we go from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive.

 

[LeviR]

Like I said, the preacher doesnt know who the elect are, if they show a interest in the Gospel, in charity we may hope they are of the elect, but only time will tell, the true convert will continue in the truth and not fall away.

But many will fall away. And the reason they fall away is because they think they had it better in Egypt.
The way of the Lord is not an easy one. With it comes trials and tribulations of which many can’t take.

 

[LeviR]

"Beloved, NOW ARE WE the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is". (1 John 3: 2).

One last post: No---you are wrong:

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God". (1 John 5:13)

Eternal life is not something that we hope one day to receive at the Resurrection----scripture CLEARLY teaches that eternal life is something we possess NOW as regenerated Christians. In fact, we can KNOW that we HAVE it according to 1 John 5:13. This is not "presumptuousness"---this is TRUE FAITH in believing the Word of God and what it says. God WANTS US TO KNOW we have eternal life NOW. When we are BORN-AGAIN we are translated from DEATH unto LIFE. We are MADE ALIVE and we go from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive.

Beloved, NOW ARE WE the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is". (1 John 3: 2).

When Christ appears he raises the dead. The dead sons of God are raised in the same way he was. They die no more. They are like him who never dies again.

So we call ourselves sons of God even though it does not yet appear what a true son of God is, one who is raised from the dead like him. Never to die again.

And the true sons of God are justified by faith. The faithful become sons forever. They die no more. This is the hope of the one in Christ of whom it has been appointed once to die.

 

[brightfame52]

But many will fall away. And the reason they fall away is because they think they had it better in Egypt.
The way of the Lord is not an easy one. With it comes trials and tribulations of which many can’t take.

Those who fall away were not elect

 

[LeviR]

Those who fall away were not elect

But the reason they fall away is that they fall into the sin that so easily besets us all. The sin of unbelief.
The sin which has no hope except in the things that are seen.. the sin of the world. This world. They have no vision of the world to come. So they treasure the things of this world. Which is to negate the world to come. As if the world to come is of this world and the things valued by this world. They are vanity.

 

[brightfame52]

But the reason they fall away is that they fall into the sin that so easily besets us all. The sin of unbelief.
The sin which has no hope except in the things that are seen.. the sin of the world. This world. They have no vision of the world to come. So they treasure the things of this world.

Those who fall away were not elect

 

[LeviR]

Those who fall away were not elect

Those elected are those who don’t fall away.

 

[electedbyHim]

Yeah, "probably", 'cause there're four types of soils that receive the seed of the gospel, and the ones showing interest might be the second - the shallow soil - or the third soil - thorny soil, both sprout, but no growth. The fourth doesn't sprout, translation, no apparent interest or receptivity, but that's the one that eventually yields fruits. You'll never know.

Only the "good" soil are the elect (regenerate), the other 3 are not regenerate.

Why do we need to know who the elect is? What is the purpose in that?

Our job is to share the gospel and God does all the work.

 

[LeviR]

Only the "good" soil are the elect (regenerate), the other 3 are not regenerate.

Why do we need to know who the elect is? What is the purpose in that?

Our job is to share the gospel and God does all the work.

The work of salvation is finished. That’s why Christ has sat down at the right hand of the Father.
The only work left to do is for his enemies to be made his footstool. Then he stands back up.

 

[electedbyHim]

The work of salvation is finished. That’s why Christ has sat down at the right hand of the Father.
The only work left to do is for his enemies to be made his footstool. Then he stands back up.

No one is being saved anymore?

 

[LeviR]

No one is being saved anymore?

The door is still open. It’s opened by the message. The message is “choose life”

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is not about trying to identify the elect. Election is a Biblical truth. We preach and teach the whole council of God. We preach and teach it because it is true. We don't hide doctrines because we think somebody might be offended.

I believe in the "election" as much as you do, the "elect" are the “chosen" among the "called", as in "many are called, few are chosen", I think at least we can agree on that, right? The difference is that I also believe that the calling is not rigged, the saved were NOT predetermined before the calling, both the saved and the unsaved are called FIRST, then the saved are chosen, the unsaved are not, as in the parable of the wedding feast where the ones who were not properly dressed in the garb of righteousness were thrown out.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Only the "good" soil are the elect (regenerate), the other 3 are not regenerate.

Why do we need to know who the elect is? What is the purpose in that?

Because this doctrine raises that question, you need to be specific. It's like you preach "ye must be saved", but saved from what, and for what? "Freedom is out greatest value", but free from what, to do what? You know, "love your neighbor as yourself" is the greatest commandment from Jesus, and even that raised the question, "who is my neighbor?" So the purpose is to answer that question. If you don't, it will only feed to some people's sin of pride that only the church who accepts this doctrine is the true church of the "elect", everybody else is not the elect and therefore beneath them.

Our job is to share the gospel and God does all the work.

No, we're God's workmanship, we do the work to glorify God.

But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! ;For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” (Matt. 12:48-50)

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. (James 1:22-25)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, however in error it may be.

You don't even have an opinion, you've just posted a bunch of random links.