Bible Study But Election Isn't Fair!

[electedbyHim]

Wrong. A snob thinks about the cross as nonsense, a sinner desperately, joyfully, graciously seeks salvation from the cross.

I am not sure where you get your understanding of that verse. Nothing in the verse says anything about being a snob. Wordly wise people are all who are self-righteous, they are unregenerate.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.

A human is either regenerate or unregenerate. There is no in between. We are either in the process of salvation or the process of destruction.

The unregenerate see the preaching of the cross as foolishness, in fact they are at emnity with God and want nothing to do with Him.

Romans 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

 

[Whatever]

A pastor or elder is not Big Brother with omnipresent surveillance, whether Joe blow keeps all God's commandments or not is between him and God. Wheat and tares look alike, and God allows both to grow in the field, you don't know who's who until the harvest day.

But they still have a responsibility to excommunicate people for sin.

1 Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you . . .
1 Co 5:5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Thess 3:14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

It is a disciplinary measure.

It's a RELATIONSHIP, not regulation. As I said, it's between each individual and God.

It is a regulation also.
Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works . . .

Most Churches have people make a statement of faith or a vow of commitment to Jesus before joining or being baptized.
A covenant promise to consecrate or devote one's self wholly to the Lord, and usually has something about submitting to the elders as leaders. Like in the passages above, it has codes of conduct.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But they still have a responsibility to excommunicate people for sin.

He who excommunicates sinners must be sinless, or they condemn themselves.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. (Rom. 2:1)

It is a regulation also.

Mosaic laws expose sins and convict sinners, and that's necessary to know sin, but any meaningful change only comes from a loving relationship. That "meaningful change" is a change of heart which extends into each one's daily life beyond the church community, even beyond the city or country he lives should he travel abroad, and that's where "regulation" fails.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A human is either regenerate or unregenerate. There is no in between. We are either in the process of salvation or the process of destruction.

The unregenerate see the preaching of the cross as foolishness, in fact they are at emnity with God and want nothing to do with Him.

But all are born as "unregenerate", only born AGAIN as "regenerate". Nobody is naturally born regenerate. If "unregenerate" is unteachable and unsavable, then Christianity should've died out when all the disciples were gone, but quite the contrary, some vilest offenders and haters converted to Christianity, Saul of Tartus who brutally persecuted early Christians became the first apostle and evangelist. You are blinded by a condescending attitude and you don't have a growth mindset. And that's why you can't understand the difference between a snob and a sinner - both are "unregenerate", in your terms, and one does see the preaching of the cross as foolishness, but the other sees it as their hope and salvation. It's the same as the Pharisee and the tax collector, that's where I got my understanding, to answer your question.

 

[electedbyHim]

But all are born as "unregenerate", only born AGAIN as "regenerate". Nobody is naturally born regenerate. If "unregenerate" is unteachable and unsavable, then Christianity should've died out when all the disciples were gone, but quite the contrary, some vilest offenders and haters converted to Christianity, Saul of Tartus who brutally persecuted early Christians became the first apostle and evangelist. You are blinded by a condescending attitude and you don't have a growth mindset.

Your posts are very confusing and make no sense.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Your posts are very confusing and make no sense.

That's because you're trapped in a false dichotomy of "regenerate" and "unregenerate". That's the situation in the "Lord's Day", the end of the church age and the beginning of the millennial kingdom, and only in that situation does your "regenerate"/"unregenerate" dischotomy apply. Until then, there're four types - the stony heart, the shallow heart, the thorny heart and the fertile heart. The first three are all "unregenerate", yet the shallow heart and the thorny heart are both redeemable, I believe they are the mission field, they can become "regenerate", you on the other hand don't based on your fatalistic view, and that's our difference.

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day ..." (Rev. 1:10)

 

[Fastfredy0]

Your posts are very confusing and make no sense.

Then does it make sense to respond to them?

 

[electedbyHim]

That's because you're trapped in a false dichotomy of "regenerate" and "unregenerate". That's the situation in the "Lord's Day", the end of the church age and the beginning of the millennial kingdom, and only in that situation does your "regenerate"/"unregenerate" dischotomy apply. Until then, there're four types - the stony heart, the shallow heart, the thorny heart and the fertile heart. The first three are all "unregenerate", yet the shallow heart and the thorny heart are both redeemable, I believe they are the mission field, they can become "regenerate", you on the other hand don't based on your fatalistic view, and that's our difference.

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day ..." (Rev. 1:10)

That is really, really bad theology.

Seems to me you do not understand the parable of the sower.

 

[electedbyHim]

Then does it make sense to respond to them?

Ouch!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That is really, really bad theology.

Seems to me you do not understand the parable of the sower.

The only bad theology is Calvinistic black and white worldview.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A human is either regenerate or unregenerate. There is no in between. We are either in the process of salvation or the process of destruction.

The unregenerate see the preaching of the cross as foolishness, in fact they are at emnity with God and want nothing to do with Him.

Imagine yourself preaching that "a human is either regenerate or unregenerate" in real life, and somebody approaches you and asks, "am I regenerate or unregenerate?" Or how about this, "is president Donald Trump regenerate or unregenerate?" How would you respond?

 

[electedbyHim]

Imagine yourself preaching that "a human is either regenerate or unregenerate" in real life, and somebody approaches you and asks, "am I regenerate or unregenerate?" Or how about this, "is president Donald Trump regenerate or unregenerate?" How would you respond?

You really just do not understand.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

A man is the sum total of all the choices made and choices not made during the course of a lifetime, of all that is said and all that is left unsaid. The choices not made stand below the surface of observed behavior by others. God judges the hearts from 1 Samuel 16:7 "...For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart." That is the Lord looks at the whole picture of who we are while we only see on the surface during the course of our mortal life about what others are.

Hence, we are advised not to judge others, for it's the Lord who does the judging of each individual person. So, if you tell me that well God has chosen some before the beginning of space and time and excluded others, that is judgement on your part on the mass of all humans on the Earth across time not God's judgement. I shall and you all shall understand God's judgement when that day arrives. Until then, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

We are told to humbly work on our own salvation from Philippians 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

Any doctrine on the salvation of men and God's judgement on the grand scale is just that a man's incomplete attempt at understanding a plan of contingencies by the Lord set in motion before the world was created. Satan watches all the time and tries to influence what we do to counter God's plan of contingencies for Satan hates humanity and the fact that God gave us free will to navigate the moral landscape we face. In God there is always hope, love and charity. And God is fair. Who is unfair? Satan, for in him there is fatalism, hate and selfishness.

Does the parable of the sower make more sense now? By design, I left some things unsaid by the way. And God's truth is free for freely we have received and freely we shall give if we are truly faithful in Christ (that is a Christian).

 

[Whatever]

He who excommunicates sinners must be sinless, or they condemn themselves.

No, if a Church excommunicates a man for unrepentant adultery they are not condemning themselves.
You quote one verse and that nullifies everything else in the Bible.

1Co 5:2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed.

Are you going to say that Paul condemned himself?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Are you going to say that Paul condemned himself?

Only hypocrites condemn themselves, and churches are in no shortage of those. First century's synogagues, 21st century's megachurches.

 

[Whatever]

Only hypocrites condemn themselves, and churches are in no shortage of those. First century's synogagues, 21st century's megachurches.

Have you forgotten that Paul started Churches wherever he went. Then he appointed elders.
Titus_1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you

An elder or overseer is:
1 Timothy 3:4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)

Most Churches democratically vote for their own elders. The elders are to be like fathers in a family - exercising discipline.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump

 

[miamited]

Hi Carry_Your_Name

Wrong. A snob thinks about the cross as nonsense, a sinner desperately, joyfully, graciously seeks salvation from the cross.

That somehow rings as untrue to my ears. Isn't the snob a sinner? Aren't we all sinners? Trust me please that just because someone is a sinner they do not desperately, joyfully, graciously seek salvation from the cross. I mean, if God's word is true that we are all sinners, then wouldn't we all be following desperately, joyfully, graciously seeking now if your understanding is correct in this matter?

 

[miamited]

According to the Scriptures, it is the lost, whether they be snobbish or not, that find the work of the cross as nonsense. "Those who are perishing" I believe is the descriptor that Paul uses to define those who find the message of the cross as nonsense.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Most Churches democratically vote for their own elders. The elders are to be like fathers in a family - exercising discipline.

You're being an ideologue, I'm not. The spirit warned Paul that in the last days people will depart from faith and seek their own pleasure, we're there.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hi Carry_Your_Name

That somehow rings as untrue to my ears. Isn't the snob a sinner? Aren't we all sinners?

Yes, but the difference is, a sinner is one who acknowledges himself as a sinner, a snob is a sinner who regards himself as a saint and looks down on other sinner, such as that Pharisee looking down at the tax collector. Anytime we compare ourselves to somebody else and mentally give us a pat on the back: "at least I'm better than that loser," we're behaving like a snob.