Bible Study But Election Isn't Fair!

[LeviR]

LeviR---
"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he SAVED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3: 4-6)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy HATH BEGOTTEN US again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)

There are many verses that speak of our being "born-again" or "regeneration" in PAST TENSE. It is something we have NOW. Being born-again is not the resurrection from the dead in the future---it is something that happens to us NOW while we are alive. We are "made alive again" through regeneration. The first verse above shows that he SAVED US (past tense)--BY THE WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST.

I am not "cherry picking" verses. You are making statements from your "opinion" on the matter. I will not post any more regarding this as it is obvious you are SET in your belief.

Yeah, and Abraham was made the father of a multitude of nations before he even had a child.

One of the problems I noticed with Reformed Theology after having moved on to see what others had to say, is that they miss a lot of stuff. They learn the same things and pass those same things on to the next.
They are very limited in what they think they’ve already figured out.

Maybe you should get out more. It doesn’t hurt, really it doesn’t.

 

[LeviR]

LeviR



He doesnt have to say it like that, its implied, you know they arent dead physically, the wages of sin is death, so its a spiritual death, thats why in salvation man is given a new spirit Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

In vs 26 its a new spirit in tune with God, in Vs 27 its the Holy Spirit given

Thats why I said, you cant see it, you looking for catch words, thats carnal, scripture truth is theological!

spiritual death is not implied. What is implied is condemnation on all in Adam.
Condemnation is NOT spiritual death. It is a judgement against the sinful human nature of man.

 

[LeviR]

What does that have to do with anything?

But you have your opinion not based in the Bible.

Why would any faith in Christ be worthless if the dead do not rise?

Because if they do not rise from the dead they stay dead..

Why did they die?

Because they sinned when Adam sinned. And the judgment of God is death to Adam and all who come from him. Whether they sinned his particular sin or not.

It is not spiritual death. It is condemnation of the sinful flesh nature.

And the reason why we MUST be born again from the dead or our faith would be worthless, is because we are given a new divine nature upon resurrection.

A nature incapable of sin and therefore death. He receives immortality and eternal life by resurrection from the dead. Just like the life Christ now has and received by his own resurrection from the dead. He “dies no more”.

 

[electedbyHim]

What is spiritual death?​

Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.

A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

To illustrate, think of Jesus’ raising of Lazarus in John 11. The physically dead Lazarus could do nothing for himself. He was unresponsive to all stimuli, oblivious to all life around him, beyond all help or hope—except for the help of Christ who is “the Resurrection and the Life” (John 11:25). At Christ’s call, Lazarus was filled with life, and he responded accordingly. In the same way, we were spiritually dead, unable to save ourselves, powerless to perceive the life of God—until Jesus called us to Himself. He “quickened” us; “not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy” (Titus 3:5).

The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

 

[LeviR]

What is spiritual death?​

Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.

A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

To illustrate, think of Jesus’ raising of Lazarus in John 11. The physically dead Lazarus could do nothing for himself. He was unresponsive to all stimuli, oblivious to all life around him, beyond all help or hope—except for the help of Christ who is “the Resurrection and the Life” (John 11:25). At Christ’s call, Lazarus was filled with life, and he responded accordingly. In the same way, we were spiritually dead, unable to save ourselves, powerless to perceive the life of God—until Jesus called us to Himself. He “quickened” us; “not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy” (Titus 3:5).

The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

The problem with that is you’re not actually reading the text. You’re putting your own idea into it. Let the text speak for itself.

Man was never given a soul to separate from his body. The man became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
All God’s creatures are living souls. When they die they become dead souls.

You read the text as if it said “And God breathed into the man a living soul”

That’s not what it says.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living soul.

That text says that what God formed from the ground is man. It then says that God breathed into his(the man) nostrils the breath of life.
It then tells us that the man became a living soul.

Paul tells us the same thing.

So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor 15:45

Adam, or the man, became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Some translations say that Adam became a living person or living creature.

So, when Adam was condemned to die, he was to return to the ground from which he was made. He would no longer be what he had become. A living soul or living person or living creature.
He would become a dead soul, or dead person, or dead creature.

There is no soul or person or creature that separates from the body at death.

It is only the breath that leaves the body. This is called expiring. When someone expires, they die. They breathe their last breath.