Bible Study But Election Isn't Fair!

[LeviR]

LeviR---
"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he SAVED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3: 4-6)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy HATH BEGOTTEN US again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)

There are many verses that speak of our being "born-again" or "regeneration" in PAST TENSE. It is something we have NOW. Being born-again is not the resurrection from the dead in the future---it is something that happens to us NOW while we are alive. We are "made alive again" through regeneration. The first verse above shows that he SAVED US (past tense)--BY THE WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST.

I am not "cherry picking" verses. You are making statements from your "opinion" on the matter. I will not post any more regarding this as it is obvious you are SET in your belief.

Yeah, and Abraham was made the father of a multitude of nations before he even had a child.

One of the problems I noticed with Reformed Theology after having moved on to see what others had to say, is that they miss a lot of stuff. They learn the same things and pass those same things on to the next.
They are very limited in what they think they’ve already figured out.

Maybe you should get out more. It doesn’t hurt, really it doesn’t.

 

[LeviR]

LeviR



He doesnt have to say it like that, its implied, you know they arent dead physically, the wages of sin is death, so its a spiritual death, thats why in salvation man is given a new spirit Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

In vs 26 its a new spirit in tune with God, in Vs 27 its the Holy Spirit given

Thats why I said, you cant see it, you looking for catch words, thats carnal, scripture truth is theological!

spiritual death is not implied. What is implied is condemnation on all in Adam.
Condemnation is NOT spiritual death. It is a judgement against the sinful human nature of man.

 

[LeviR]

What does that have to do with anything?

But you have your opinion not based in the Bible.

Why would any faith in Christ be worthless if the dead do not rise?

Because if they do not rise from the dead they stay dead..

Why did they die?

Because they sinned when Adam sinned. And the judgment of God is death to Adam and all who come from him. Whether they sinned his particular sin or not.

It is not spiritual death. It is condemnation of the sinful flesh nature.

And the reason why we MUST be born again from the dead or our faith would be worthless, is because we are given a new divine nature upon resurrection.

A nature incapable of sin and therefore death. He receives immortality and eternal life by resurrection from the dead. Just like the life Christ now has and received by his own resurrection from the dead. He “dies no more”.

 

[electedbyHim]

What is spiritual death?​

Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.

A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

To illustrate, think of Jesus’ raising of Lazarus in John 11. The physically dead Lazarus could do nothing for himself. He was unresponsive to all stimuli, oblivious to all life around him, beyond all help or hope—except for the help of Christ who is “the Resurrection and the Life” (John 11:25). At Christ’s call, Lazarus was filled with life, and he responded accordingly. In the same way, we were spiritually dead, unable to save ourselves, powerless to perceive the life of God—until Jesus called us to Himself. He “quickened” us; “not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy” (Titus 3:5).

The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

 

[LeviR]

What is spiritual death?​

Death is separation. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. In Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam that in the day he eats of the forbidden fruit he will “surely die.” Adam does fall, but his physical death does not occur immediately; God must have had another type of death in mind—spiritual death. This separation from God is exactly what we see in Genesis 3:8. When Adam and Eve heard the voice of the Lord, they “hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God.” The fellowship had been broken. They were spiritually dead.

A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

To illustrate, think of Jesus’ raising of Lazarus in John 11. The physically dead Lazarus could do nothing for himself. He was unresponsive to all stimuli, oblivious to all life around him, beyond all help or hope—except for the help of Christ who is “the Resurrection and the Life” (John 11:25). At Christ’s call, Lazarus was filled with life, and he responded accordingly. In the same way, we were spiritually dead, unable to save ourselves, powerless to perceive the life of God—until Jesus called us to Himself. He “quickened” us; “not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy” (Titus 3:5).

The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

The problem with that is you’re not actually reading the text. You’re putting your own idea into it. Let the text speak for itself.

Man was never given a soul to separate from his body. The man became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
All God’s creatures are living souls. When they die they become dead souls.

You read the text as if it said “And God breathed into the man a living soul”

That’s not what it says.

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living soul.

That text says that what God formed from the ground is man. It then says that God breathed into his(the man) nostrils the breath of life.
It then tells us that the man became a living soul.

Paul tells us the same thing.

So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor 15:45

Adam, or the man, became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Some translations say that Adam became a living person or living creature.

So, when Adam was condemned to die, he was to return to the ground from which he was made. He would no longer be what he had become. A living soul or living person or living creature.
He would become a dead soul, or dead person, or dead creature.

There is no soul or person or creature that separates from the body at death.

It is only the breath that leaves the body. This is called expiring. When someone expires, they die. They breathe their last breath.

 

[brightfame52]

spiritual death is not implied. What is implied is condemnation on all in Adam.
Condemnation is NOT spiritual death. It is a judgement against the sinful human nature of man.

Like I said b4 you cant see it.

 

[LeviR]

Like I said b4 you cant see it.

When did Adam receive a soul that separates from the body?

IOW, we know Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him the breathe of life, but when did God give him a soul that can separate from his body?

All living creature are called living souls. Do they have souls that separate from their bodies?

If so, where do we find this information? The Bible never speaks the way you do.

After the flood, we are told eight souls survived. That means the other souls drown in the flood.

Please explain where you got your information that those souls did not drown in the flood.

 

[brightfame52]

When did Adam receive a soul that separates from the body?

IOW, we know Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him the breathe of life, but when did God give him a soul that can separate from his body?

All living creature are called living souls. Do they have souls that separate from their bodies?

If so, where do we find this information? The Bible never speaks the way you do.

After the flood, we are told eight souls survived. That means the other souls drown in the flood.

Please explain where you got your information that those souls did not drown in the flood.

Like I said b4 you cant see it.

 

[LeviR]

Like I said b4 you cant see it.

The truth is, you are seeing what is not there.

Please show me where Adam recieved a living soul that can separate from his body?

I’m sure we’d all be interested.

Are you telling us that you can see words that other people can’t?

 

[brightfame52]

The truth is, you are seeing what is not there.

Please show me where Adam recieved a living soul that can separate from his body?

I’m sure we’d all be interested.

Are you telling us that you can see words that other people can’t?

Like I said b4 you cant see it. Man is dead to God because of sin Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[LeviR]

Like I said b4 you cant see it. Man is dead to God because of sin Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

But the word “spiritually” dead is not found there or anywhere.

Death has passed to all man when Adam sinned. The death that passes is the death sentence he received.
When a person is born into this world, he is under the same death sentence that Adam was. Because it is the sinful nature of man that has been judged.

And that sentence says, “from dust you are and to dust you shall return”. Nothing more is said.
There is no talk anywhere in scripture that says Adam became spiritually dead.
That is man’s idea. Not scripture’s idea.

You can’t add your own ideas to scripture. That is deceiving. And unless I had done my homework, I might still be being deceived by people who teach ideas they have added to scripture.

And another thing. If you do discover the truth and try to tell others how they have been mislead, you probably won’t be welcomed back.
That doesn’t scare me.

 

[brightfame52]

But the word “spiritually” dead is not found there or anywhere.

Death has passed to all man when Adam sinned. The death that passes is the death sentence he received.
When a person is born into this world, he is under the same death sentence that Adam was. Because it is the sinful nature of man that has been judged.

And that sentence says, “from dust you are and to dust you shall return”. Nothing more is said.
There is no talk anywhere in scripture that says Adam became spiritually dead.
That is man’s idea. Not scripture’s idea.

You can’t add your own ideas to scripture. That is deceiving. And unless I had done my homework, I might still be being deceived by people who teach ideas they have added to scripture.

And another thing. If you do discover the truth and try to tell others how they have been mislead, you probably won’t be welcomed back.
That doesn’t scare me.

Like I said b4 you cant see it. Man is dead to God because of sin Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[LeviR]

Like I said b4 you cant see it. Man is dead to God because of sin Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

what was the offence of the one?

Eating from the tree.

What did the law say?

On the day you eat, you will surely die.

What happened on the day he ate?

The sentence was handed down. “ from dust you are and to dust you shall return “

No mention anywhere in the entire Bible of “spiritually dead”

NOWHERE! Not even in one single verse.

 

[follower]

web:
"Being Spiritually Dead​

The Bible teaches that all humans are born spiritually dead, separated from God due to Adam’s sin (Genesis 2:17, Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3). This spiritual death is characterized by:

• Separation from God: Humanity is no longer in a right relationship with God, and we are hostile towards Him (Colossians 1:21, Ephesians 2:1-3).
• Sinful nature: We inherit Adam’s sinful nature, which leads us to live according to the flesh and disobey God (Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3).
• Death: Spiritual death is not just a state of separation but also a state of being under God’s wrath and condemnation (Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 6:23).

Scriptural Illustrations​

• Ephesians 2:1-3: “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”
• Romans 7:9: “Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.”
• Luke 15:32: “But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.”

Redemption​

The Bible also teaches that spiritual death can be overcome through faith in Jesus Christ, who died and rose again to reconcile humanity to God (John 5:24, Ephesians 2:4-6). Through Christ, we can be made alive spiritually, and our relationship with God can be restored (John 5:24, Ephesians 2:4-6).

Key Verses​

• Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.”
• John 5:24: “Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

Conclusion​

The Bible presents spiritual death as a universal human condition, resulting from Adam’s sin. However, through faith in Jesus Christ, we can overcome this spiritual death and be made alive spiritually, restored to a right relationship with God."

Bible of “spiritually dead”

 

[LeviR]

web:​

"Being Spiritually Dead​

The Bible teaches that all humans are born spiritually dead, separated from God due to Adam’s sin (Genesis 2:17, Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3). This spiritual death is characterized by:

• Separation from God: Humanity is no longer in a right relationship with God, and we are hostile towards Him (Colossians 1:21, Ephesians 2:1-3).
• Sinful nature: We inherit Adam’s sinful nature, which leads us to live according to the flesh and disobey God (Romans 5:12, Ephesians 2:1-3).
• Death: Spiritual death is not just a state of separation but also a state of being under God’s wrath and condemnation (Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 6:23).

Scriptural Illustrations​

• Ephesians 2:1-3: “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”
• Romans 7:9: “Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.”
• Luke 15:32: “But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.”

Redemption​

The Bible also teaches that spiritual death can be overcome through faith in Jesus Christ, who died and rose again to reconcile humanity to God (John 5:24, Ephesians 2:4-6). Through Christ, we can be made alive spiritually, and our relationship with God can be restored (John 5:24, Ephesians 2:4-6).

Key Verses​

• Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.”
• John 5:24: “Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

Conclusion​

The Bible presents spiritual death as a universal human condition, resulting from Adam’s sin. However, through faith in Jesus Christ, we can overcome this spiritual death and be made alive spiritually, restored to a right relationship with God."

Except the Bible presents no on as spiritually dead.

If the Bible presented anyone as spiritually dead it would certainly say so don’t you think?

If the Bible doesn’t present anyone as spiritually dead, who does?

Man does..

 

[follower]

It seems some teachers somewhere are stuck on the idea, but they are wrong. And they will be disciplined at least for teaching wrong.

Except the Bible presents no on as spiritually dead.
If the Bible presented anyone as spiritually dead it would certainly say so don’t you think?
If the Bible doesn’t present anyone as spiritually dead, who does?
Man does..

 

[brightfame52]

what was the offence of the one?

Eating from the tree.

What did the law say?

On the day you eat, you will surely die.

What happened on the day he ate?

The sentence was handed down. “ from dust you are and to dust you shall return “

No mention anywhere in the entire Bible of “spiritually dead”

NOWHERE! Not even in one single verse.

Like I said b4 you cant see it.

 

[LeviR]

It seems some teachers somewhere are stuck on the idea, but they are wrong. And they will be disciplined at least for teaching wrong.

After Adam sinned, what was the punishment God handed to him?

Was it spiritual death, or to die and return to the dust he was made from?

Simple question.

 

[LeviR]

If the punishment against Adam was to die and return to the dust he was made from, why are these people saying it was not?

Gen 3:17
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

Gen 3:18
Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.

Gen 3:19
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

 

[follower]

There is no soul or person or creature that separates from the body at death.

It is only the breath that leaves the body. This is called expiring. When someone expires, they die. They breathe their last breath.

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