But It Doesn't Say That In The Bible!!!!!

[Gary]

hmm, what version is that?

All of'um.

What verse are you referring to?
kjv Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

asv Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and took hold of him, and saith unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

ylt Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus, having stretched forth the hand, laid hold of him, and saith to him, `Little faith! for what didst thou waver?'

You know the one. The one where Peter calls out to Jesus, pleading with the Lord to save him.

Matthew 14....(KJV)
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 14....(ASV)
30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and took hold of him, and saith unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 14....(YLT)
30 but seeing the wind vehement, he was afraid, and having begun to sink, he cried out, saying, `Sir, save me.'
31 And immediately Jesus, having stretched forth the hand, laid hold of him, and saith to him, `Little faith! for what didst thou waver?'



Notice that each of these versions has Peter calling out and asking to be saved before Jesus acts.

My point?

Jesus just doesn't reach out and save someone without an indication from the individual that they want to be saved. It doesn't work like that.

.

 

[reba]

My point?
Jesus just doesn't reach out and save someone without an indication from the individual that they want to be saved. It doesn't work like that.
.

what of the story of Saul/Paul
Peter and company was just fishing

I would n't say God only does this or that only one way...

 

[Gary]

what of the story of Saul/Paul
Peter and company was just fishing

I would n't say God only does this or that only one way...

Being called and being saved are two different things.

.

 

[Edward]

Hey Gary I am glad you said what is doubt.....Well doubt is questioning God or what ever it is you are not believing.
Doubt can come from fear as well and yet you can say fear is faith.....Now give me a moment please......When you exercise fear in anything you are releasing faith in....Say you are afraid of sharks....sharks can eat you man, well now you have Placed Faith in that shark that it can hurt you...Feart of it is Faith in it.

Ok, ok I said all that to say this...........Satin will use fear to bring doubt. Doubt is faith in reverse. If you truly doubt someting then you have truly placed fiath in it.

Now that's an interesting perspective. I had always figured that fear is a lack of faith. The most often repeated phrase in the bible is, fear not.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah Hi,
You are spot on when you say little Faith does not mean NO Faith !!
But ya know that Little Faith is not much use when the enemy comes at you with pressure or persacution and so forth.
Little Faith is nothing more then Lacking Faith..........NOW for the good news about that.
Faith is just like your body....It Needs Fed Daily...It needs exercised and work out.....Your Faith needs to be "BUILT UP" Every Single Day.......
Jim

I agree. I think Peter's faith grew a bunch after this experience. I think Jesus knew what Peter would do and called him to step out in faith anyway so that He could show Peter he shouldn't rely on the storms he saw around him for the truth.
That is how trials can build our faith. Our faith should not be in the things that are seen but the things that are not seen.

 

[reba]

Being called and being saved are two different things.

.

are the called saved and are the saved called?

 

[stovebolts]

Notice that each of these versions has Peter calling out and asking to be saved before Jesus acts.

My point?

Jesus just doesn't reach out and save someone without an indication from the individual that they want to be saved. It doesn't work like that.

Ohhh, that verse! Thanks for pointing that out lol! You had me confused because I posted the verse directly after the verse you were talking about and well, it confused me.

But thanks for making my point that it's a story of rescue! Makes perfect sense, we stumble, and Jesus is there to catch us when we fall. A story of rescue and redemption. Love it!

But as far as "Working like that", as you put it. I think it's a dangerous line to defend. Not only that, but I would go even further to say that if one's intent is to defend a point of view on these particular verses, then the likely hood of understanding the intent of the verse would utterly be lost.

You know it's funny. When I first started teaching Bible Class at our church, I would bring up a passage on a verse and instead of being able to talk about that verse, I had to give long verbose explanations on what I wasn't saying. I came to found out that when we get fixed ideas, we loose the story and when we loose the story, we loose the intent. When we loose the intent, we become judgmental of others and if left unchecked, I honestly believe it leads to self righteousness.

God Bless you my friend. And before you get the idea, the answer is no.... I'm not addressing those traits toward your character.

 

[stovebolts]

are the called saved and are the saved called?

Am I saved? Or am I being Saved? Yes

Here's one for you.
There are questions to which G-d says to be quiet, to be still, to cease to ask.
The quietness, the stillness, the abandonment of being, that itself is an answer.
Tzi Freeman

 

[stovebolts]

Matthew 14
30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”
31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”


Notice that Jesus didn't reach to save Peter until Peter asked to be saved.



Food for thought.

.

Duh {Faceplant} I just saw this. That's what I get for not reading page 2!

 

[jasonc]

Am I saved? Or am I being Saved? Yes

Here's one for you.
There are questions to which G-d says to be quiet, to be still, to cease to ask.
The quietness, the stillness, the abandonment of being, that itself is an answer.
Tzi Freeman

sadly, that jew, if he doesn't repent will not be in heaven. though that statement is true.

 

[stovebolts]

sadly, that jew, if he doesn't repent will not be in heaven. though that statement is true.

I'll take Truth wherever I can find it... because where ever there is Truth, Jesus is present.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

"Truth does not become more true if the whole world were to accept it; nor does it become less true if the whole world were to reject it." --- Maimonides

 

[jasonc]

I'll take Truth wherever I can find it... because where ever there is Truth, Jesus is present.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

careful, while im careful to avoid the fallacy of poisoning the well. we must be careful in proclaiming men and groups who don't know the Lord as the Son whom died on the cross as people who are his. they aren't.

 

[stovebolts]

careful, while im careful to avoid the fallacy of poisoning the well. we must be careful in proclaiming men and groups who don't know the Lord as the Son whom died on the cross as people who are his. they aren't.

Sorry Jason, I made no such proclamation.
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Is Paul now declaring himself an offspring of their god? Or is Paul simply pointing out that yes, even the pagen poets know truth, even if it's misguided truth.

A light guides others out of dark places and good news creates joy. Good news is "Yes, you have the truth, now let me show you the rest!".

If we look at Apollo, do you remember the truth he was teaching before Pricilla and Aquilla ran into him? How did they bring Apollo into a fuller knowledge?

And to my point:
1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

 

[jasonc]

Sorry Jason, I made no such proclamation.
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Is Paul now declaring himself an offspring of their god? Or is Paul simply pointing out that yes, even the pagen poets know truth, even if it's misguided truth.

A light guides others out of dark places and good news creates joy. Good news is "Yes, you have the truth, now let me show you the rest!".

If we look at Apollo, do you remember the truth he was teaching before Pricilla and Aquilla ran into him? How did they bring Apollo into a fuller knowledge?

And to my point:
1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

okay. use of apolegetics. that's fine, using a common truth to bridge.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hey Gary I am glad you said what is doubt.....Well doubt is questioning God or what ever it is you are not believing.
Doubt can come from fear as well and yet you can say fear is faith.....Now give me a moment please......When you exercise fear in anything you are releasing faith in....Say you are afraid of sharks....sharks can eat you man, well now you have Placed Faith in that shark that it can hurt you...Feart of it is Faith in it.

Ok, ok I said all that to say this...........Satin will use fear to bring doubt. Doubt is faith in reverse. If you truly doubt someting then you have truly placed fiath in it.

Now that does not make sense.

Hebrews 11:1;
"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance in what we do not see".

How can you put the words doubt and fear into this sentence and have it make sense?
How can you make it sound the opposite of this statement.
You'll have to be mighty creative.
Therefore, your point is not valid.

 

[stovebolts]

okay. use of apolegetics. that's fine, using a common truth to bridge.

Jason,
The common truth is that we all have Gods spirit within us (Not to be mistaken with His Holy Spirit). It's what makes every human being alive who we are in God's eyes. However, just as in Jewish eyes they say "We are God's chosen", we understand that we are "God's children" and have God's Holy Spirit.
We can invite others to partake of the Holy Spirit, but we won't get very far if we say, "You believe this, and your wrong. Look, you don't have what I have"... because when we view others around us in that manner, it's not the Holy Spirit speaking through us.

You see, our "common truth" is really Jesus. Some just aren't aware of it. And how can one accept what he's not aware of?
Grace and Peace.

 

[jasonc]

im familiar with the concept of the ruach and the yud and vav. the image of god that is marred. I have posted something about that all men have the yud and its what you do with the yud that damns you. I don't usually post nor talk like that as its not common to hear in church and nor do I need to.

romans one says all men know that there is a god, none are without excuse. it is saying nearly the same. we are damned if we don't seek out the lord and find him. not that we can, he found us first, but that is another topic.

 

[Edward]

I'll take Truth wherever I can find it... because where ever there is Truth, Jesus is present...

I like it how you said that! I will too. There is a veritable gold mine of knowledge and info available through fellowship with those of the body. I pray quite a bit for discernment of good & evil, which we all need because the truth is out there, and all over the place so it can be like trying to pick the fly poop out of the pepper. (I'm beginning to suspect that an enemy snuck in at night and sowed a bunch of weed seeds in the wheat, lol.)

The body of Christ is an invaluable resource. I see bits of truth in the most unlikely places sometimes. Fellow believers, children, and I've even heard (a little!) truth from a false prophet. But that was only because he's a liar and the best lies are couched in the truth. Seeking truth from false prophets is not to be advised however, lol.

 

[reba]

 

[Gary]

are the called saved and are the saved called?

You tell me.

Matthew 22
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

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