By Nature Children of Wrath as others !

[JLB]

They are "elect" because they elect to serve God.

Amen.

 

[tdidymas]

The non-Jews, or anybody before Moses, had no Law.
They could not be judged guilty of breaking non-existent Laws.

Yet, the moral laws of God did indeed exist before Moses, since God said that Abraham would train his children right, and Cain even knew that murdering his brother incurred judgment worthy of death, and Noah was called righteous by Peter, as well as Lot. So what was the non-existent laws you're talking about? "Do not boil a kid in its mother's milk"? Certainly it was not the sacrifice of sheep, since they were doing that long before Moses. Can you be specific as to the non-existent laws you're talking about?

But to stay on point, the gospel is the message that Christ delivers from sin, and OT saints knew that, and is the reason they are called "saints," in the same way that NT believers are called "saints."

 

[Fastfredy0]

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

I can't resist a comment.

Perhaps this verse, according to 'free will' dualism could be written:
And having been perfected, He became the [co-]author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him .. Hebrews 5:9

Seeing that, according to those who preach 'free-will', those that believe salvifically do so via human self-determination (dualism) ... salvation be caused by God and man (synergism).

 

[JLB]

Perhaps this verse, according to 'free will' dualism

I have never heard of freewill dualism?


Where is this found n the scriptures?

 

[Fastfredy0]

I have never heard of freewill dualism?

look it up

Where is this found n the scriptures?

irrelevant

 

[JLB]

I can't resist a comment.

Perhaps this verse, according to 'free will' dualism could be written:
And having been perfected, He became the [co-]author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him .. Hebrews 5:9

Seeing that, according to those who preach 'free-will', those that believe salvifically do so via human self-determination (dualism) ... salvation be caused by God and man (synergism).

First and last warning.


You are misrepresenting me. This is a violation of our terms of service.


I never used those unbiblical terms nor did I say anything about human self determination.


These are all your own made up man made terms, that you are using to prop up your man made doctrine.


Try it again.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9



Do you consider obeying Jesus Christ the works of the law?







JLB

 

[JLB]

look it up

No thanks. It’s not a scriptural term.

irrelevant

It’s perfectly relevant if you want to discuss bible doctrine, and seek to know the truth that comes from the scriptures.

I have no desire to discuss unscriptural man made terms that are the foundation of a man made doctrine.


Those who transgress the doctrine of Christ, do not have God. We don’t want to promote a doctrine that is not from Christ and His teachings.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9






JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

No thanks. It’s not a scriptural term.

So is the word "banana" and the acronym "JLB". Just because a word or whatever is not found in the scripture does not mean it can't be used in the forum.

I have no desire to discuss unscriptural man made terms that are the foundation of a man made doctrine.

Then why did you ask me for the meaning of 'freewill' and 'dualism'?

Those who transgress the doctrine of Christ, do not have God.

Premise 1: Those who transgress the doctrine of Christ, do not have God.
Premise 2: Anyone was has sinned has transgressed the doctrine of God
Conclusion: We are all going to Hell because we do not have God.

Aside: I 'reported' you for post #187. I simply commented on a verse you presented. You replied with a 'warning' that was not justified IMO.
*giggles*... I probably reported you to yourself, so I may not get much sympathy (LOL)

...going to watch "Star Trek" .... see if I get the BOOT later.

 

[JLB]

So is the word "banana" and the acronym "JLB". Just because a word or whatever is not found in the scripture does not mean it can't be used in the forum.

When we are discussing biblical doctrine, then we need to refer to scripture in order to know the truth. This is how followers of Jesus Christ renew their minds with the truth. If you want to discuss the teachings of Calvin so you can be a follower of his, then find a thread for followers of Calvinism.

• If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” John 8:31-32





JLB

 

[JLB]

Then why did you ask me for the meaning of 'freewill' and 'dualism'?

Another misrepresentation of what I said.


Here is what I said —

I have never heard of freewill dualism?


Where is this found n the scriptures?

Premise 1: Those who transgress the doctrine of Christ, do not have God.

True.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Premise 2: Anyone was has sinned has transgressed the doctrine of God
Conclusion: We are all going to Hell because we do not have God.

False.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Well, thank you for finally addressing my question partially. I agree that before Christ faith consisted of a different knowledge than today. What the content of faith was is more difficult to ascertain and therefore I did not use pre-Christ examples. You are avoiding the crux of the question.

You said EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has an opportunity to be saved.
My example was an 1282 N.A. Indian. Aside: There are millions (billions?) of examples like all of China and South America in 50 A.D.
Again, by what gospel is the 1282 N.A. Indian saved or is there not chance for his salvation.
You said that there is no other gospel than Paul's gospel. We both know the Indian and millions of others have not heard Paul's gospel. Therefore, your contention that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has an opportunity to be saved is false. You seems to be an intelligent man ... I think you are just being disingenuous.

No man is turned away from God.
You make God look like a respector of persons.
He isn't.

 

[Hopeful]

Actually there were laws given to Noah after the flood. They are called the Noahic laws.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.


Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew.
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

If a man does the above naturally, he will be judged worthy of eternal life by his conscience.
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" (Rom 2:14)
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:29)

 

[Fastfredy0]

JLB
rather than continuing to waste our mutual time I will simply state per the movie Cool Hand Luke ... "What we have here is a failure to communicate".

 

[Hopeful]

True.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

I'm surprised you posted that here after banning me from my own thread for saying the same thing.
Whosoever committeth sin is not of God.
If they seek forgiveness, they are not Christians looking for forgiveness, they are heathens looking for forgiveness.

 

[Hopeful]

I can't resist a comment.

Perhaps this verse, according to 'free will' dualism could be written:
And having been perfected, He became the [co-]author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him .. Hebrews 5:9

Seeing that, according to those who preach 'free-will', those that believe salvifically do so via human self-determination (dualism) ... salvation be caused by God and man (synergism).

It takes two to tango, submit, obey, save.

 

[Fastfredy0]

No man is turned away from God.

This statement lacks foundation but I agree. No One Seeks God. Thus the 1282 N.A. Indian is in hell.

You make God look like a respector of persons.
He isn't.

I hope not as I do not think He finds anything in man to be worthy of respect. Dualism believes in 'free will' ... the self-determination of man that enables him to chose God independent of God. This, they feel, is rewarded by God respect as He is obligated by this self-determination to adopt them as His sons.
I, on the other hand, believe we are ONLY rewarded for what He has done.

I'm still waiting for your explanation of how a 1282 N.A. Indian has a chance to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes

No other gospel exists.

True.

Wrong conclusion.
Moses, Abraham, and Jacob never heard off Paul's gospel.


He did not die in vain.
But OT folks had a Law to live by that included remediation of sins...without hearing of Christ Jesus.
And as all men will be judged by their consciences, whether they hear of Christ or not, it is not my place to judge them here enmasse.

Right on Hopeful.

 

[GodsGrace]

This statement lacks foundation but I agree. No One Seeks God. Thus the 1282 N.A. Indian is in hell.


I hope not as I do not think He finds anything in man to be worthy of respect. Dualism believes in 'free will' ... the self-determination of man that enables him to chose God independent of God. This, they feel, is rewarded by God respect as He is obligated by this self-determination to adopt them as His sons.
I, on the other hand, believe we are ONLY rewarded for what He has done.

I'm still waiting for your explanation of how a 1282 N.A. Indian has a chance to be saved.

Who are you to decide who's in hell?
I thought Jesus was doing the judging....not you.

 

[JLB]

JLB
rather than continuing to waste our mutual time I will simply state per the movie Cool Hand Luke ... "What we have here is a failure to communicate".

No waste of time for me.

I understand you no longer want to communicate when your doctrine doesnt line up with scripture.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm still waiting for your explanation of how a 1282 N.A. Indian has a chance to be saved.

The same way Abraham was saved.

By obeying the Lord.


JLB