Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles
Also Christ is the source of grace and truth! Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

And this must extend to his church for Christ and his church are one and accomplish the same purpose “the salvation of souls! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Thks

Thank you for the question. I am blessed to be able to reach the Word of God.

As you have just mentioned, apostolic doctrine is teaching that comes to us through the apostles. They were the men specifically chosen by Christ to carry His teachings to the world.

The writers of the New Testament refer to a settled body of doctrine that is often called “the faith” or “the gospel.”

May I say to you that the Apostle Paul strongly condemns people who would change or pervert the content of the gospel in Galatians 1:6–9 where he warned........
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!”

Now, once the foundation of the church had been laid and the teaching of the apostles had been recorded in Scripture, the role of apostle was no longer needed. Today, there is still a need today for preachers, teachers, and missionaries to carry God’s Word of the apostolic doctrine to the entire world, however nowhere in the Bible is there a reference to Apostolic Succession!

Some churches today and some denominations have the word apostolic in their name. For some, this may mean that they believe that the apostolic gift is at work in their church or in the Catholic church it means that a man, the POPE is the VICAR of Christ and he has the authority to change or add to the Word of God as he sees fir because they bellive he is an apostle.

If so, and you as a Catholic have accepted that, then it is a misunderstanding of the New Testament teaching on apostleship.

For others, it may mean that they want to emphasize the apostolic doctrine as found in the New Testament. If that is what they truly do, then this is a good thing.

One denomination, the Apostolic Church, says that they are following closely the teaching of the apostles but unfortunately believe that baptism by immersion is necessary for salvation and that salvation will be followed by sign gifts. While we see examples of the sign gifts being used in the book of Acts, it is not the teaching of the apostles that baptism is necessary for salvation or that every Christian will exhibit miraculous signs. In this case, although the name is “apostolic,” the teaching is not.

 

[Rodger]

Does not change the fact that the apostle has authority to teach, and to teach in any way he chooses, not scripture alone!

You seem to not know or choose to ignore that there can be an apostle today so that fact completely rules out the Pope as an apostle.

Are you aware of the qualifications to be an apostle??????

I realize that YOU do not accept the authority and directions of the Bible, but nonetheless, The criteria for apostleship are........
(1) a disciple of Jesus during His earthly ministry,
(2) an eyewitness of the Resurrection, and
(3) called and commissioned directly by Christ.

Since NO living person today can meet those BIBLE qualification, there are NO apostles today.
There is absolutely no biblical evidence to support such an understanding of the role of apostle today.

As always.........thank you for your opinions as it allow me to correctly teach the Word of God to those who read this.

 

[Rodger]

Apostolic tradition is simply the teaching of the apostles or the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42

Again.......Thanks for the comment. Now lets be correct in all that we post as thoughts and opinions can be dangereous.

So then, According to the Roman Catholic Church, the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church we read............
"In their apostolic tradition is “the transmission of the message of Christ, brought about from the very beginnings of Christianity by means of preaching, bearing witness, institutions, worship, and inspired writings. The apostles transmitted all they received from Christ and learned from the Holy Spirit to their successors, the bishops, and through them to all generations until the end of the world”.

What does that mean. It means that among Catholics, and you and a Catholic believer accept apostolic tradition is seen as a special revelation of God, distinct from the written Word, that the apostles passed down to the early church. It is an authoritative supplement to Scripture.

2nd Thessalonians 2:15 mentions “tradition” in some translations and we read there.....
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle”.

If you then read the ESV and The NIV you will see that it says simply says “teachings.”

Paul cites both his oral teaching and his written epistles as authoritative for the church. So then, There is nothing here, though, that would suggest apostolic succession or a lasting body of oral tradition distinct from the written Word. NOTHING!!

Paul, who had been teaching for many years before he wrote any epistle, is simply saying that his previous instructions delivered in Thessalonica were to be followed, as were those contained in his first letter to them. In other words, Paul is saying, “Hold fast to what I directly taught, whether I said it when I was with you, or wrote it after I left.”

The key to all of this is that what Paul had taught the Thessalonian church can all be found in the Bible. There is nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 that teaches acceptance of indirect teaching “traditionally” attributed to the apostles.

 

[Rodger]

Is the perpetual virginity of Christ “an article of faith” necessarily for salvation?

WOW!

You can not how you are blessing me! You are makeing comments and posts and I do not even have to ask you this stuff.

There IS NO SUCH THING AS THE PERPETUAL VIRGINITY OF CHRIST.

If you mad a mistake and meant Perpetual Virginity of Mary.......NO.

Since the Perpetual Virginity is not found anywhere in the Bible, it can not therefore bean article of faith in salvation.

Again.....realize that I am teaching you from the Bible and you are only able to grasp Catholic teachings,
however I feel as though I need to tell you that the Apostles Matthew and Mark, Both state that Mary had other sons and daughters in Matt. 13:55-56.........
“Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?”

Mark 6:3.....
“Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him”.

Now, before you try to use the Catholic theology to say that BROTHERS mean "Cousins".........
May I say again to you that neither Matthew or Mark used the original Greek words for "cousins"!

WHY NOT??? Why didn’t they use the Greek words for cousins which is anepsios or relatives = suggenes? ??

The Greek word for “cousin” was used in the NT in Colossians 4:10 and “relative” was used in Luke 1:36? Instead, both Matthew and Mark used the words for brothers (adelphos) and sisters (adelphe).

Please do not accept my understanding of the Greek. YOU do the same work that I have done and YOU find out for yourself.

Matthew mentioned that Jesus had siblings (ch. 12:46–50).
Luke in the book of Acts also mentioned Jesus’ brothers (Acts 1:12–14).

Also, Jesus in Mark 3:32–35 and Luke 8:19–21 differentiated between His physical brothers and mother and His spiritual brothers and mother.

In addition, the apostle Paul stated that Jesus had a brother (Galatians 1:19).

 

[Rodger]

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
It’s

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17

The “rule of faith” for Christians:
Revealed by Christ!
Taught by His apostolic church!

Cannot believe scripture without believing the apostolic councils!
only the apostolic councils decree’s what is sacred scripture and what is not!

Rule of faith is not scripture alone but Christ and the apostles in holy church. Acts 2:42

NOPE.

Again.....you are only posting Catholic doctrine as a good Catholic. Nothing you said is Biblical and I do not accept Catholic teaching outside of the Word of God.

 

[Rodger]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!



Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Members of the communion of saints must submit to the teaching of the apostles: “the light (truth) of the world” and the pillar of truth! Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15

Again.......way tooooo many words to be assmilated.

 

[Rodger]

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles
Also Christ is the source of grace and truth! Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6

And this must extend to his church for Christ and his church are one and accomplish the same purpose “the salvation of souls! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Thks

Agreed but it does not extend to the church.

Jesus is the way the truth and the life!

There is NO SCRIPTURE THAT SUGGESTS.....
"the church for Christ and his church are one and accomplish the same purpose “the salvation of souls! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 eph 5:32"

None of those posted Scriptures say or mean what you want them to say.

 

[Rodger]

Sacred scripture? yes!
The doctrine of “scripture alone? No!

How do we know what is sacred scripture since the Bible does not say?

Do you accept the Bible as the written word of God? (73) complete books

Thanks fro the questions.

Are the Scriptures sacred......YES.

Are the Scripture all we need to be saved?.......YES!

You asked....
"How do we know what is sacred scripture since the Bible does not say?"

Now.......The Bible does not say TRINITY but you believe it! So why the difference????
INCONSISTANCY is the prescription for disaster and delusion!

Is the Bible the written word of God......YES!

The 66 books of the accepted canon are the Words of God.

The others that make up the Apocrypha are unbiblical, uninspired and are in fact Occultic!

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you would like to make ONE comment of your opinion I will be glad to read it and respond.

Morning Roger...
Here is my one question/comment.
Are Christians "in Christ" ?
As there is no sin in Christ, there can't be any sin in those who walk in Him either.

If you choose to continue to post these He said, You said posts I will have to say goodbye and leave you to your Bible ignorance.

You are a saved sinner but still a sinner. If you choose to believe otherwise, God bless you as in the Bible, there is NO SUCH CONSEPT.

I disagree.
Peter wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John wrote..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:15)
Paul wrote..." 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6)

Even without studying what the Bible says about the possibility of sinlessness, simple observation of people has caucused me to reject the idea completely. Simple Observation of people who claim sinlessness absolutely reinforces my opinion and the fact that you are saying you do not sin IS THE SIN OF PRIDE!

Don't make 'people' your reference point.
Make Jesus your reference point.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Walk as Jesus walked !

 

[Rodger]

Morning Roger...
Here is my one question/comment.
Are Christians "in Christ" ?
As there is no sin in Christ, there can't be any sin in those who walk in Him either.

I disagree.
Peter wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
John wrote..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:15)
Paul wrote..." 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6)

Don't make 'people' your reference point.
Make Jesus your reference point.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Walk as Jesus walked !

Of course, saved people are "In Christ".
The Bible truth is that every believer in the gospel is then "in Christ". That means when God looks at us He sees us in Christ, the only sinless One, who died and was raised from the dead so that we could be accepted as righteous in God’s sight ( John 8:46; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:17-23).

However....why do you think that means you do not sin???

I do knoe where that idea comes from and may I say to you that it is a heresy. What I do not know is whether or not someone has taught you that or if you are on your own, but in either case my friend it is a wrong teaching and you are misuderstanding those Scriptures.

I will add to that, if a person is born again, then that believer will see a decreasing pattern of sin in his life
as he lives for Christ he will then stop committing KNOWN sin in his life.

1 John 3:6.........
“No one who lives in Christ keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him”.

1 John 5:18.......
“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them” .

John IS NOT REACHING SINLESS PERFECTION and to think so is a total misunderstanding.

We know that. You see, when John writes that believers do not continue to sin, he is not referring to sinless perfection because of what he writes elsewhere in the same epistle. To believers John says, in 1 Jn 1:8.....
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"..

Do you just pretend that Scripture does not exist?????

So, we are all sinners, and we continue to struggle with sin even after we are saved. We will never know a total absence of sin until we are with the Lord in glory: “When Christ appears, we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).

If John is not referring to sinless perfection, what does he mean that believers do not continue to sin?

Very simply, he means that believers will not continue practicing sin as a way of life. as I have posted to you!

There will be a difference between the old life without Christ and the new life in Christ.
The thief who was characterized by his theft is a thief no more; he has a different way of life.
The adulterer who was characterized by his immorality is an adulterer no more; his behavior changed.

The child of God who was a former thief may still struggle with covetousness, but he no longer lives according to the pattern of stealing.

The child of God who was a former adulterer may still struggle with lust, but he has broken free from the old life of immorality.

“All who have this hope in [Christ] purify themselves, just as he is pure” (1 John 3:3).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Of course, saved people are "In Christ".
The Bible truth is that every believer in the gospel is then "in Christ". That means when God looks at us He sees us in Christ, the only sinless One, who died and was raised from the dead so that we could be accepted as righteous in God’s sight ( John 8:46; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:17-23).
However....why do you think that means you do not sin???

If we are righteous in God's eyes, we must actually be righteous.
God doesn't lie to Himself.

I do knoe where that idea comes from and may I say to you that it is a heresy. What I do not know is whether or not someone has taught you that or if you are on your own, but in either case my friend it is a wrong teaching and you are misuderstanding those Scriptures.

In essence, you are saying the ability to obey Christ is impossible.
I know that isn't true.

I will add to that, if a person is born again, then that believer will see a decreasing pattern of sin in his life
as he lives for Christ he will then stop committing KNOWN sin in his life.

Why will he see a decrease, but not a complete repentance from sin ?
If man has the power to slow down on some disobedience, what forces him to keep just some sin in his allegedly reborn life ?
You are saying that God's seed can bring forth liars, thieves, and adulterers.
That cannot be right !

1 John 3:6.........
“No one who lives in Christ keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him”.

Doesn't that nullify your first POVs above ?

1 John 5:18.......
“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them” .

Same thing.
God's word says "does not continue to sin" !

John IS NOT REACHING SINLESS PERFECTION and to think so is a total misunderstanding.

How can you read the scriptures you just posted, and actually believe what you wrote ????

We know that. You see, when John writes that believers do not continue to sin, he is not referring to sinless perfection because of what he writes elsewhere in the same epistle. To believers John says, in 1 Jn 1:8.....
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"..

John is addressing those who walk in darkness-sin with that verse.
Why not look at the verse before it ?
1 John 1:7..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Those walking in the light, which is God, have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ !
They can say they have no sin!
Of course we must remain in the light to be able to continue to honestly say we have no sin.

Do you just pretend that Scripture does not exist?????

I have posted several, and you try to refute them.

So, we are all sinners, and we continue to struggle with sin even after we are saved. We will never know a total absence of sin until we are with the Lord in glory: “When Christ appears, we shall be like him” (1 John 3:2).

When He appears, those walking in darkness sin will not be like Him.
Only those who walk in the light will be like Him, before and at His arrival.

If John is not referring to sinless perfection, what does he mean that believers do not continue to sin?

Nor sure which verses you are referring to here ?

Very simply, he means that believers will not continue practicing sin as a way of life. as I have posted to you!
There will be a difference between the old life without Christ and the new life in Christ.
The thief who was characterized by his theft is a thief no more; he has a different way of life.
The adulterer who was characterized by his immorality is an adulterer no more; his behavior changed.

How little of a change will crucifying the old man, with the affections and lusts, produce ? (Gal 5:24)
10%, or 25% ?
It can only produce a 100% change !

The child of God who was a former thief may still struggle with covetousness, but he no longer lives according to the pattern of stealing.
The child of God who was a former adulterer may still struggle with lust, but he has broken free from the old life of immorality.

Doesn't that mean that both are not committing the sins of older times ?
If the child is of God, he isn't a thief anymore.
That which was of Adam was killed and buried with Christ, and a new man was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life (Rom 6:3-6)

“All who have this hope in [Christ] purify themselves, just as he is pure” (1 John 3:3).

That sounds like no one who is walking in darkness-sin.

 

[Rodger]

If we are righteous in God's eyes, we must actually be righteous.
God doesn't lie to Himself.

In essence, you are saying the ability to obey Christ is impossible.
I know that isn't true.

Why will he see a decrease, but not a complete repentance from sin ?
If man has the power to slow down on some disobedience, what forces him to keep just some sin in his allegedly reborn life ?
You are saying that God's seed can bring forth liars, thieves, and adulterers.
That cannot be right !

Doesn't that nullify your first POVs above ?

Same thing.
God's word says "does not continue to sin" !

How can you read the scriptures you just posted, and actually believe what you wrote ????

John is addressing those who walk in darkness-sin with that verse.
Why not look at the verse before it ?
1 John 1:7..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Those walking in the light, which is God, have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ !
They can say they have no sin!
Of course we must remain in the light to be able to continue to honestly say we have no sin.

I have posted several, and you try to refute them.

When He appears, those walking in darkness sin will not be like Him.
Only those who walk in the light will be like Him, before and at His arrival.

Nor sure which verses you are referring to here ?

How little of a change will crucifying the old man, with the affections and lusts, produce ? (Gal 5:24)
10%, or 25% ?
It can only produce a 100% change !

Doesn't that mean that both are not committing the sins of older times ?
If the child is of God, he isn't a thief anymore.
That which was of Adam was killed and buried with Christ, and a new man was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life (Rom 6:3-6)

That sounds like no one who is walking in darkness-sin.

Please.....lets do one at a time.

You said..
"If we are righteous in God's eyes, we must actually be righteous.....".

What makes us right or righteous in God’s eyes is not anything that we have done. It is our response to His grace by believing through faith that what God has told us about salvation through His Son, Jesus Christ is true and we accept that by faith.

You said......
"In essence, you are saying the ability to obey Christ is impossible."

No sir I did not say that. I actually said that we must try our best to obey God.
What I said to you was we are unable to live a life without sin.
Until we are glorified in God’s presence in heaven, though, we will still inhabit a sin-infected body. The struggle against our flesh is constant, even for the most mature Christian (Romans 7:15–24). In the Christian life, we should progressively achieve greater and greater victory over sin, but our battle against sin will not end this side of eternity.

You said.........
"God's word says "does not continue to sin" !
Exactly. What part of that translates as "SINLESS-I can not sin"?

In short, you have said that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did.

However, you have ingored completely that the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ in 1 John 1:8.

I am sure you mean well, but you do not seem to understand that Sin is not an enemy that is ‘out there’.
It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

My dear friend, I enjoy the conversation but I have to say to you that your comments and lack of Bible understanding on this subject gives yourself away. You are betraying yourself with an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God.

You are setting yourself up for a fall because IMHO you have forgotten what sin is?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Please.....lets do one at a time.

If you hit "enter" on your key board at the end of my question or comment, you can answer underneath of it.

You said..
"If we are righteous in God's eyes, we must actually be righteous.....".
What makes us right or righteous in God’s eyes is not anything that we have done. It is our response to His grace by believing through faith that what God has told us about salvation through His Son, Jesus Christ is true and we accept that by faith.

Not true.
God will not lie.
Isn't "our response" something we do ?
If He makes us righteous, we must be righteous.
If we still are not righteous after hearing the messages of salvation, we are still unrighteous.

You said......
"In essence, you are saying the ability to obey Christ is impossible."
No sir I did not say that. I actually said that we must try our best to obey God.
What I said to you was we are unable to live a life without sin.

You just said, again, we cannot obey God.
If we are unable to live a life without sin, we are unable to obey God !

Until we are glorified in God’s presence in heaven, though, we will still inhabit a sin-infected body. The struggle against our flesh is constant, even for the most mature Christian (Romans 7:15–24). In the Christian life, we should progressively achieve greater and greater victory over sin, but our battle against sin will not end this side of eternity.

Our 'sin-infected body' can be circumcised by the circumcision made without hands.
As written..." In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
There is no excuse for remaining in a 'sin-infested body'.

You said.........
"God's word says "does not continue to sin" !
Exactly. What part of that translates as "SINLESS-I can not sin"?

If you don't sin anymore, you are sinless; as the truly repentant get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, their old sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. (Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:7)
If you have stopped sinning, (repented of sin), and been cleansed of past sins, you are "sinless".

In short, you have said that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did.

Amen...though what we can defeat is temptation to commit sin.
What is impossible for men who submit to God, and have the gift of the Holy Ghost after their repentance from sin ?

However, you have ingored completely that the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ in 1 John 1:8.

That verse addresses those not walking in the light-God.
Sinners cannot honestly say they have no sin.
The verse before that, addresses those who do walk in the light-God.
They have had all their previous sins cleansed by the blood of Christ !
If we remain in God-light, we won't sin again.
There is no darkness in the light.

I am sure you mean well, but you do not seem to understand that Sin is not an enemy that is ‘out there’.

Sin is the name give to disobedience to God.
Our actions can be considered as sinful if they are contrary to God's will.

It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15). That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

Sin doesn't have its own personality or will.
Those in Christ have the God given power to adhere to all that Jesus and His apostles have written for our good.

My dear friend, I enjoy the conversation but I have to say to you that your comments and lack of Bible understanding on this subject gives yourself away. You are betraying yourself with an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God.

All unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)
But there is no sin in God, in Whom I walk.
You could too, if you repent of sin permanently.

You are setting yourself up for a fall because IMHO you have forgotten what sin is?

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
Does Paul prescribe the impossible ?
No.

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor 5:21)
Isn't Paul telling the truth ?
Yes.

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
Was Paul wasting his time ?
As long as those like me exist on earth, the answer is NO.

 

[donadams]

Correct which I have stated here several times.

Do you realize, now I do not mean by what your RCC has told you, but when YOU actually read the Scriptures....
there is not one single Scripture in which Apostolic Succession is directed, suggested or even hinted at????

In other words, according to the Word of God, the Bible we both read.....there is NO direction that there is such a thing as an apostle TODAY! The Bible has NOTHING in it to make one believe that there is such a thing as Apostolic Succession!

Really? Succession is explicitly part of the kingdom authority!

Christ gives the apostles His authority and commands them to teach all men? Matt 28:19
To be his witnesses? Acts 1:8
To show the way of salvation? Acts 16:17
To bind on earth and it be bound in heaven Matt 16:19 & 18:18
To hear them? Lk 10:16 Matt 18:17
To be the light (truth) of the world? Matt 5:14
The pillar of truth? 1 Tim 3:15
God breathed with the same power and authority as Christ? Jn 20:21-23

Christians must be taught!
The gospel must be preached to the nations “all nations” Matt 28:19 and Christ must have apostles witnesses to the ends of the earth! Acts 1:8 disciples need to be administered the grace of justification by faith and baptism

Thks

 

[donadams]

Correct which I have stated here several times.

Do you realize, now I do not mean by what your RCC has told you, but when YOU actually read the Scriptures....
there is not one single Scripture in which Apostolic Succession is directed, suggested or even hinted at????

In other words, according to the Word of God, the Bible we both read.....there is NO direction that there is such a thing as an apostle TODAY! The Bible has NOTHING in it to make one believe that there is such a thing as Apostolic Succession!

The successors of Moses!
Successors are Explicitly included:

The successors of Moses have kingdom authority. ( bind and loose & keys)

Christ commanded them to be obeyed. (I know they were not impeccable but it does not diminish their office or authority)

Matt 23:1
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Matt 23:4
power to bind and loose
Matt 23:13
power of the keys of the kingdom

Taken from them!

***Matt 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Given to Peter and the apostles!
Same kingdom power and jurisdiction authority!

Lk 22:29
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matt 16:18-19
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Succession is included and provided
Acts1:15-26 Mathias successor of Judas
Timothy successor of Paul

The church is the mustard seed of the gospel growing and spreading all time and all places!

 

[donadams]

Correct which I have stated here several times.

Do you realize, now I do not mean by what your RCC has told you, but when YOU actually read the Scriptures....
there is not one single Scripture in which Apostolic Succession is directed, suggested or even hinted at????

In other words, according to the Word of God, the Bible we both read.....there is NO direction that there is such a thing as an apostle TODAY! The Bible has NOTHING in it to make one believe that there is such a thing as Apostolic Succession!

Is there a perpetual church established by Christ is yes then there are apostles who have care for our souls! Eph 4:11
Heb 13-7-17

 

[donadams]

Again..........Where in the Bible is the Word PURGATORY!

Purge does in fact mean "to cleanse or remove" in the Bible. Now to say that "Purge" means PURGATORY is the same as saying pornography is classical art.

Again.....It aint in the Bible and YES I believe in OT types but what you posted as Scripture to validate RCC PURGATORY aint one of them.

Purge is the root word of purgatory

If you believe the promised land is a type of heaven then the children of Israel in bondage in Egypt is a type of purgatory

 

[donadams]

Again..........Where in the Bible is the Word PURGATORY!

Purge does in fact mean "to cleanse or remove" in the Bible. Now to say that "Purge" means PURGATORY is the same as saying pornography is classical art.

Again.....It aint in the Bible and YES I believe in OT types but what you posted as Scripture to validate RCC PURGATORY aint one of them.

Biblical Purgatory:

Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.

This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)

St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.

Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)

St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.

Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.

Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.

St. Francis de Sales commented:

It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.

Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.

Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:

ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)

Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):

Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)

Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:

These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)

Good thief promised paradise yet is still suffering the just punishment of His sins.

Lk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Shall some sins can be forgiven in the world to come and it can’t be heaven cos no unclean thing can enter there.

Isa 6:3 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory!

 

[donadams]

TRINITY is not in the Bible. How can you in all good conciousness believe what is not openly said?

Mary had several other children, PHYSICALLY. Jesus had FOUR 1/2 brothers and at least TWO 1/2 sisters.

Mary is the mother of Jesus and here other children but she is not the mother of all Christians.

Do you believe that Christ is divine?
Do you believe in the blessed trinity?
One God in three persons

Thks

You said something about Luther and articles of faith


Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.

 

[donadams]

Did I say that?????
Is that what I said????

You do realize that what you posted is "Disingenuous"....dont you?????

What I said was that "all that is needed to be saved, to be born again is found in the Scriptures"!

Who wrote the Scriptures???????

So where in that do you get the idea that Christ is not the rule of faith!

Now, the absurdity of your question is that you believe and have said that TRADITIONS of the Catholic church and water baptism is the rule of faith.

Now........Whould you like to reconsider your question and try again?

No cos I believe Christ and his church are one unity! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

To reject the church is the same as rejecting Christ who established the church!

To reject the teaching of the church is to reject Christ who reveal it and commanded it be taught !

Christ established the church of the apostles to teach and sanctify of men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19
Matt 28:19 includes baptism

Covenants require an outward sign that signifies what it accomplishes
Washing both body water (outward) and soul (inward) by grace

Christ instituted the sacraments of the life of grace! Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10 Jn 14:6 eph 2:1 & 2:5 the life of God in us, grace!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration! Not salvation proper but the beginning of salvation, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!