Call No Man Father

[TheDeafMan]

Apparently we've strayed off topic so I'll close my part with this. Because I've accepted Jesus as my savior and trusted in the assurance of that salvation completed totally by his death on the cross, I know of absolute certainty that I will live with him in Heaven. Hope to see all of you there. Again, adios.

 

[donadams]

No graven images. (10 commandments which I know RCs alter)

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zechariah 11:13
And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

KJV call it pottery

What statues? Graven images?

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her


If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!

I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!

Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!

Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!

Jesus depicted still on the cross?

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

We live in the power of the resurrection but conform to His passion and death till He returns in glory, we share in His suffering.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


Images commanded by God!

Brazen serpent

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 25:18
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to context or subject matter there are nine in the content provided in ex 20

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes Ten Commandments!

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbors goods.

Tenth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbor’s wife.

Thanks

 

[Mungo]

Apparently we've strayed off topic so I'll close my part with this. Because I've accepted Jesus as my savior and trusted in the assurance of that salvation completed totally by his death on the cross, I know of absolute certainty that I will live with him in Heaven. Hope to see all of you there. Again, adios.

Good to know you are now infallible and impeccable.

 

[TheDeafMan]

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[donadams]

Salvation is only through the RC church. (it's not)
No graven images. (10 commandments which I know RCs alter)
Perpetual virginity of Mary. (She wasn 't, she was a sinner as we all are and had other children)
Purgatory. (Doesn't exist, never has, it is a mis-application of Luke story of rich man)
Bible is only authority. (So, no man made traditions, apocroprpha.)
Peter as first Pope. (He wasn't, the rock refers to belief in Jesus, that belief)

I've been warned to stop the apologetics against RCs, so I may be dropped from this thread, so if no response, that's why.

Perpetual virginity see post in catholic forum “Mary

“Bible only authority”

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

Wouldn't it be easier to just not call any man father than to look for ways to disobey the Lord ?

How is it disobedience?

Just condemned the pride of the Pharisee’s

Jesus doe’s not rebuke her for calling men father???

In Jn 4:20-24

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not just the Greek.
As I pointed out in the OP "The Collins Concise Dictionary gives 28 [yes, twenty eight] different meanings to the verb “call”. Some of these are specialist terms (e.g. to “call” at poker)"
But hey! Who bothers to read the OP before piling in?

Mungo,
The OP gets old after a while and posters begin to reply to each other.
The OP is spot on.

I would have liked to also explain the word CALL better, but I have visitors and am tight for time.

And....I like that persons find out for themselves.
They don't always trust other posters.

Later.

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is only through the RC church. (it's not)
No graven images. (10 commandments which I know RCs alter)
Perpetual virginity of Mary. (She wasn 't, she was a sinner as we all are and had other children)
Purgatory. (Doesn't exist, never has, it is a mis-application of Luke story of rich man)
Bible is only authority. (So, no man made traditions, apocroprpha.)
Peter as first Pope. (He wasn't, the rock refers to belief in Jesus, that belief)

I've been warned to stop the apologetics against RCs, so I may be dropped from this thread, so if no response, that's why.

The problem was that you called the doctrine of the CC NONSENSE.
We try to respect each other here even though we may disagree.
Do it with love and respect and you'll have no problem.

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is only through the RC church. (it's not)
No graven images. (10 commandments which I know RCs alter)
Perpetual virginity of Mary. (She wasn 't, she was a sinner as we all are and had other children)
Purgatory. (Doesn't exist, never has, it is a mis-application of Luke story of rich man)
Bible is only authority. (So, no man made traditions, apocroprpha.)
Peter as first Pope. (He wasn't, the rock refers to belief in Jesus, that belief)

I've been warned to stop the apologetics against RCs, so I may be dropped from this thread, so if no response, that's why.

I'd like to reply to the above, but just can't right now.
Later.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo,
The OP gets old after a while and posters begin to reply to each other.

I don't think that's an excuse. If there is nothing more to say on a topic then it should just die.

 

[Mungo]

The problem was that you called the doctrine of the CC NONSENSE.
We try to respect each other here even though we may disagree.
Do it with love and respect and you'll have no problem.

And that he said "The RC church has so many errors in their belief system that it's hard to find the biblical truth".

That contained no examples, no evidence, just a very negative comment.

TOS 1.4 says "Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)".

Just raising an issue is one thing. Being totally negative is another.

 

[donadams]

Spiritual fathers

And that he said "The RC church has so many errors in their belief system that it's hard to find the biblical truth".

That contained no examples, no evidence, just a very negative comment.

TOS 1.4 says "Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)".

Just raising an issue is one thing. Being totally negative is another.

then jumping off when we actually respond from scripture!

Few there are who practice the golden rule or the royal virtues of Jesus Christ!

Thanks

 

[Hopeful 2]

Let's try another approach to this.

Catholics don't call their priests father they address them as father. So no problem!

Semantics won't get me to heaven.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Do a study on what the word CALL means in this case. There are different words in Greek for the English CALL.

Thanks, but no thanks.
Were that the only issue with catholicism, you might be on the right track.
But the other several dozen points accumulate into a tsunami.

 

[Hopeful 2]

How is it disobedience?

Just condemned the pride of the Pharisee’s

Jesus doe’s not rebuke her for calling men father???

In Jn 4:20-24

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Thanks

She probably wasn't present when Jesus taught that men ought not call men "father".

 

[Mungo]

Semantics won't get me to heaven.

But all you are doing is playing semantics, or more accurately indulging in the error of equivocation.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But all you are doing is playing semantics, or more accurately indulging in the error of equivocation.

Even if calling someone "father" was OK, which Jesus said was not OK, the catholics would still have dozens of other things needing manipulation in similar fashion in order to seem in compliance with God.

 

[Mungo]

Even if calling someone "father" was OK, which Jesus said was not OK, the catholics would still have dozens of other things needing manipulation in similar fashion in order to seem in compliance with God.

It is perfectly acceptable to address priest as father. Jesus didn't say addressing a man as father that was not OK.

There is no manipulation. That is just your prrjudices showing.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It is perfectly acceptable to address priest as father. Jesus didn't say addressing a man as father that was not OK.

There is no manipulation. That is just your prrjudices showing.

I think I will follow Jesus' directives.

 

[Mungo]

I think I will follow Jesus' directives.

So do I, so that's OK then.