quote by cybershark5886:
Alright Tim, I'm finally getting around to this. I'll try to break it down piece by piece and show the general idea behind this:
God says "Because of your faith I will impute the perfect righteousness of my only beloved Son on your account that you may be saved and as white as snow that you may dwell with me"
First of all,
God says
Lets look at what else God has said.
"Be Holy for I am Holy" (1 Peter 1:16; Leviticus 11:44, 19:2).
Why? "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God" (Hebrews 12:14-15).
God also said, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless" (Genesis 17:1). And Jesus said, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).
How? "Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus" (Phillipians 3:12-15).
And what did Paul say about attaining this perfection and righteousness just prior to that? And this is a key verse which actually answers almost all parts of that composite teaching I gave, it's more explicit than I remembered, "More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith" (Phillipians 3:8-9).
The object of his faith is what has changed. Paul once trusted in the works of the law. What are the works of the law? He lists them in the dung list: Circumcision, Israelite nationality, Being a Benjaminite, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, a Pharisee in doctrine and ceremonial works, a zealot in persecuting infidels, and having kept the laws perfectly by the letter. All those things were tossed away for the excellency of knowing the faith of Christ, the high calling of God, in the following of the way of the cross.
What is meant by this faith of Christ? It is trusting the taking up of our cross daily and setting aside our earthly gains to sacrificially give to others, in love and faith, that God will supply our needs as we supply the needs of others and that it is right to put others first and not seek for glory and rewards on earth.
The way you say it here is so esoteric that I can’t even relate to your words. It’s as if they are hollow words devoid of meaning. I’m not blaming you for this but making an observation here. They’re not real to me:
quote by cybershark5886:
It is something given only through Christ and in Christ, and it is not our righteousness but God's righteousness given to us on the basis that we have faith. And what else did Jesus say about pursuing God's righteousness? "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness" (Matthew 6:33).
It is clear that the only way we can be holy, and blameless, and perfect, and righteous is through Christ, and not coming from ourselves but through God on the basis of faith.
This also defines the nature of our salvation, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God " (Ephesians 2:8). The Greek makes it clear that it is talking about salvation as not being of ourselves, and we see also that we obtain that only as a gift "by grace" on the basis of faith, "through faith". Thus that also covers my note I interrupted with where I said about it all being grace, that God didn't have to do it.
Because of your faith I will impute the perfect righteousness of my only beloved Son on your account that you may be saved
You are not explaining Paul’s words and putting his religious terms into understandable examples. Instead, you’re driving it further from reality by making ‘faith’ sound like a menu item served on a plate or something that could be tied with a bow. You’re removing it away from it’s true definition, which is belief in the message that Jesus taught and trust in the way that he has shown us to live.
quote by cybershark5886:
I actually covered a bit of this above. How righteousness is on the basis of faith and it comes to us through Christ, that we may be saved "not of ourselves" but as "the gift of God".
The righteousness that we ‘get’ from Christ is the righteousness that we attain by walking in the light, according to the Spirit leading us to do the right things in the right attitude. The Spirit cleanses us from unrighteousness when we confess and forsake our sin daily. Since we are then clean from sin, we have this righteousness from God, not of ourselves, lest any man should boast.
The real problem is not the pride of man wanting to take credit for being good enough to attain salvation, but the laziness of man not wanting to do good works helping his neighbor, and the greed of man not wanting to give of his wealth, and the lust of man wanting to get at his neighbor’s wife. That’s why the true gospel is rejected and the gospel-lite is preferred. No works are required for salvation. They are an add on bonus we ‘give’ to God. Lucky God. He gets us and some ‘lovely parting gifts’ for his trouble of sending his son to save mankind.
quote by cybershark5886:
Other things which speak of this are:
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith" (Romans 9:30).
"But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption" (1 Corinthians 1:30). Christ becomes to us righteousness, sanctification (holiness), and redemption (salvation), which is the idea behind imputation.
Good, Josh. I think you tossed a few bones in every direction. I forget. Are you a minister or leader in a church? Most of them are pretty good politicians. Everyone thinks they’re in agreement with them but no one can pin them down to just one view. Give them something really vague to say, and they’ll stand firmly on it.
quote by cybershark5886:
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH" (Romans 1:17). The one who lives righteous cannot be apart from faith.
"But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:6-9). This is saying that we need not ask who will (or "how can I?") obtain righteousness (aka get to Christ - which here seems synonymous with obtaining righteousness and salvation - by "bringing him down" or "up"), but rather believe in the "word of faith" (the word & news that says Christ will save us on the simple & amazing basis of faith alone), and confess Jesus as Lord. And as a result we will experience the "righteousness based on faith".
I could go on and on.
I can't. That’s all I have to add here. The rest is more of the same, I'm quite disappointed.
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