James 2: Claiming Salvation without works

[JLB]

I believe Jesus is the son of God died for our sins and I make a hash of trying to live as He asks us to live. I throw myself on His mercy daily.

Thank you for sharing this. You seem to have a good heart, and I believe you are sincere.

 

[JLB]

The desire of God is to have a relationship with people and save them from Hell. Not to make their lives better here on earth though that is a byproduct of His work.

Well said.

I believe that any time you are saying something other than we are saved by grace through faith you are adding works

Going back to the topic of this thread which refers to James and works.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

The “work” James is referring to is obedience.

Abraham obeyed the Lord when He told Abraham to sacrifice his son on the altar.

This is not good works, or the works of the law.

This is called the obedience of faith.

 

[onlysaved]

Well said.



Going back to the topic of this thread which refers to James and works.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

The “work” James is referring to is obedience.

Abraham obeyed the Lord when He told Abraham to sacrifice his son on the altar.

This is not good works, or the works of the law.

This is called the obedience of faith.

I agree but the obedience of faith as you call it is the outward display of the inward decision to trust. It is that decision to trust that brings salvation.

As an aside years before God came to Abraham as an old man and told him he'd be the father of a great nation. He believed God's promise long before his son was even born and before God told him to sacrifice his son.

 

[donadams]

You're twisting those verses to make them say what you want...

now we are into authority

who has authority to decide what is and what is not the truth or the christian faith?

 

[donadams]

Not human effort.

Jesus Christ living His life through you by the Spirit.

This is the life that is fruitful.

This is the life that is pleasing to Him.

Prayer: "the key of heaven"!

He who prays shall be saved, he who does not pray is lost!
Alphonse De Liguori
(Doctor of the church)

(heaven holds a place for those who pray)

The universal law of Christ!

ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE!

Faith & Prayer!

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Ask and you shall receive!

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

God's gifts are free if we fulfill His requirements!

"watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation"

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Its not automatic!

God promises eternal life to those who are faithful to prayer!


Humble prayer of the publican!

Lk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Humble prayer of the thief at the cross!

Lk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Daily perseverance (abiding in Christ Jn 15:5) and final perseverance (endure to the end matt 10:22) are gifts that we cannot earn and don't deserve, and they are not automatic!

So ask and you shall receive!

 

[donadams]

No, no works at all can save. Period. That is the message of the NT.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. (ESV)

So, you still have this problem in your position:

Paul says "by grace you have been saved through faith . . . it is the gift of God, not the result of works" (Eph. 2:8-9, ESV). You say that "it is the works that give life to faith." But, if works "give life to faith," then in order to have faith, we have to do works. That means Paul is wrong and it actually is works that gives us the faith to be saved.

you must ignore a large part of scripture?

here's a few

 

[JLB]

Daily perseverance (abiding in Christ Jn 15:5) and final perseverance (endure to the end matt 10:22) are gifts that we cannot earn and don't deserve, and they are not automatic!

The gift we cannot earn and is not automatic and requires our effort is grace; the Spirit of grace the Holy Spirit.

And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32


The Spirit empowers us to do what we can not do without Him.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body

 

[donadams]

sorry

here's a few

Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (must choose to abide)

matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (must choose to endure)

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[donadams]

more

The supernatural virture has of Charity or love of God!

who says the commandments & worship are part of salvation?

deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Titus 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent
charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

[donadams]

more

Prayer: "the key of heaven"!

He who prays shall be saved, he who does not pray is lost!
Alphonse De Liguori
(Doctor of the church)

(heaven holds a place for those who pray)

The universal law of Christ!

ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE!

Faith & Prayer!

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Ask and you shall receive!

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

God's gifts are free if we fulfill His requirements!

"watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation"

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Its not automatic!

God promises eternal life to those who are faithful to prayer!


Humble prayer of the publican!

Lk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Humble prayer of the thief at the cross!

Lk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Daily perseverance (abiding in Christ Jn 15:5) and final perseverance (endure to the end matt 10:22) are gifts that we cannot earn and don't deserve, and they are not automatic!

So ask and you shall receive!

 

[donadams]

the gospel verses the anti-gospel!

The Gospel

narrow road leads to life:

anti-gospel

life leads unto to narrow road
"saved unto works"

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

I don't care how you slice and dice these verses, you will never make them come out as "faith alone "!

matt 5:3
matt 10:39
matt 19:29
mk 16:16
1 cor 13:2
1 cor 13:13
phil 1:29

 

[donadams]

2:1
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
James 2 is not about having no faith without works. James 2 is about not having the faith of the Lord Jesus, without doing His good works.

The error of James 2 is not about claiming any faith, but rather is specifically about claiming to have the faith of the Lord Jesus.

The general Bible principle is that any faith without works, is dead. The doctrine of Christ is that any faith in God without good works, is dead to God.

2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Trying to say James 2 is only about having dead faith without any works, is an error and a diversion from the specific rebuke in James 2: Which is against having one's own faith in God, that is not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, because it has not the good works of Christ.

James e acknowledges some having faith in God, but their faith is their own alone, if it is without doing His good will. It's not the faith of Jesus. And therefore they are trusting in their own faith alone, apart from doing His good works, to save them.

2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Ps 12:3-4
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

And so, the faith they do have in God cannot save their own soul, because it is not the saving faith of Jesus, that is always doing those works pleasing to the Father.

James 2 is specifically against having any salvation without works. It rebukes anyone naming the name of Christ, and claiming to be saved by one's own faith apart from Christ's works.

Any faith one has in God, that is apart from His good works, is apart from His Christ.

Therefore, anyone preaching any gospel of having salvation only by faith alone, apart from doing Christ's good works, is preaching one's own gospel alone, and claiming to be saved by having their own faith in God, apart from the saving faith of Jesus.

Anyone on earth having faith without works, has dead faith. Anyone having faith in God without doing His good works, has faith of his own alone and dead to God.

Eph 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus to them that repent of sinning against God, to receive His Son and His saving faith always do the Father's good will.

Any faith in God apart from doing His works, is of oneself alone. It is not the gift of the God of Christ Jesus.

The Christian Life!

Members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:5) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life

 

[donadams]

The Christian Life!

Members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:5) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life

 

[Free]

sorry

here's a few

Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (must choose to abide)

matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (must choose to endure)

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

more

The supernatural virture has of Charity or love of God!

who says the commandments & worship are part of salvation?

deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Titus 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent
charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

more

Prayer: "the key of heaven"!

He who prays shall be saved, he who does not pray is lost!
Alphonse De Liguori
(Doctor of the church)

(heaven holds a place for those who pray)

The universal law of Christ!

ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE!

Faith & Prayer!

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Ask and you shall receive!

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

God's gifts are free if we fulfill His requirements!

"watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation"

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Its not automatic!

God promises eternal life to those who are faithful to prayer!


Humble prayer of the publican!

Lk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Humble prayer of the thief at the cross!

Lk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Daily perseverance (abiding in Christ Jn 15:5) and final perseverance (endure to the end matt 10:22) are gifts that we cannot earn and don't deserve, and they are not automatic!

So ask and you shall receive!

This isn't at all helpful. If you think I am ignoring any of those, which I am not, then you need to show exactly how I am ignoring them.

the gospel verses the anti-gospel!

The Gospel

narrow road leads to life:

anti-gospel

life leads unto to narrow road
"saved unto works"

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

I don't care how you slice and dice these verses, you will never make them come out as "faith alone "!

matt 5:3
matt 10:39
matt 19:29
mk 16:16
1 cor 13:2
1 cor 13:13
phil 1:29

You have yet to show that you even understand what is meant by "faith alone," despite it having been repeated numerous times. None of those passages prove that justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone is false.

 

[donadams]

This isn't at all helpful. If you think I am ignoring any of those, which I am not, then you need to show exactly how I am ignoring them.


You have yet to show that you even understand what is meant by "faith alone," despite it having been repeated numerous times. None of those passages prove that justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone is false.

faith alone is just that "faith alone" nothing added!

not grace
not repentance
not hope
not charity
nothing!

you can believe "faith alone" or scripture but not both!

thanks

 

[Free]

faith alone is just that "faith alone" nothing added!

not grace
not repentance
not hope
not charity
nothing!

you can believe "faith alone" or scripture but not both!

thanks

Why are you even in this discussion if you're not going to even bother trying learn the very thing you're arguing against? I already dealt with your straw man, HERE.

 

[donadams]

Why are you even in this discussion if you're not going to even bother trying learn the very thing you're arguing against? I already dealt with your straw man, HERE.

please explain how "alone" does not mean alone?

thks

 

[JLB]

I agree but the obedience of faith as you call it is the outward display of the inward decision to trust. It is that decision to trust that brings salvation.

A trust that leads to obedience is a beautiful thing.

 

[onlysaved]

now we are into authority

who has authority to decide what is and what is not the truth or the christian faith?

Who has authority? God. How do we determine what that is? We study the Bible in it's context.
There is no human authority determine what is true Christian faith..

 

[Free]

please explain how "alone" does not mean alone?

Again, this just shows that you don't even know what you're arguing against. Did you re-read the post I linked to? If not, please do so, and re-read the definitions of justification that were provided, HERE.