CAN God do the the logically impossible? Why / why not?

[Ritajanice]

To say that “God can do anything he chooses to do,” but that “he also can’t lie,” is a contradiction. Either “God can do anything he chooses to do,” which means he can lie, or God “can’t lie” and therefore cannot “do anything he chooses to do.”

If there is just one thing that God cannot do, it follows that he cannot do anything he chooses. And, if there is one thing, there are likely more.

God cannot lie, he cannot learn, he cannot sin, he cannot be unjust, he cannot be unfaithful, he cannot make a square circle, he cannot make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it, etc.

All the things God cannot do can be summed up by saying that God cannot do anything that goes against his nature—“he cannot deny himself” (2 Tim. 2:13)—which includes the logically impossible.

Sorry , I did’ not say any of the above,I said God can do whatever is pleasing to Him.

He can do anything “ HE” chooses to do, you can’t thwart the will of God.

Psalm 115:3-8​

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King James Version​

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3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them

Matthew 6:10​

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King James Version​

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10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

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◄ Hebrews 13:21 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. New Living Translation may he equip you with all you need for doing his will. May he produce in you, through the power of Jesus Christ, every good thing that is pleasing to him. All glory to him forever and ever! Amen. English Standard Version equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

I’m not sure what you mean by that since every believer has the Holy Spirit and so is “in direct contact.

What does, everyone has the Holy Spirit? Mean.as it’s not biblical Free

That’s not what God’s word says.

Of course.


Yes.


That verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible. Also, you’re again contradicting what you said earlier in your post—“he can’t lie.” If “he can’t lie,” then by definition he cannot do all things.

It says, what it says, what ever God speaks out of his mouth, it will never come back void.

saiah 55:11

King James Version

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11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[Fastfredy0]

If there is just one thing that God cannot do, it follows that he cannot do anything he chooses.

That does not follow in my mind.

For example: There are 5 things to do... let's call them A,B,C,D,E where E is His choice to 'not lie'
God chooses to do A,B,C,D,E ... everything He wants to do

You can look at it another way. Anything contrary to what God chooses to do He cannot do, which does not mean He can't do everything He chooses to do. Choosing to not do a thing falls within the definition of Him doing what every He chooses.

 

[Free]

Sorry , I did’ not say any of the above,I said God can do whatever is pleasing to Him.

You said: "God can do anything he chooses to do, he also can’t lie,there is nothing that God can’t do."

He can do anything “ HE” chooses to do,

Can he choose to do the logically impossible? Can he choose to go against his nature? Can he choose to sin?

you can’t thwart the will of God.

Of course. What does this have to do with the discussion? The discussion is whether or not God can do what is logically impossible.

Psalm 115:3-8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them

Matthew 6:10​

​

King James Version​

​

​

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

​

◄ Hebrews 13:21 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. New Living Translation may he equip you with all you need for doing his will. May he produce in you, through the power of Jesus Christ, every good thing that is pleasing to him. All glory to him forever and ever! Amen. English Standard Version equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

What does this have to do with the discussion?

What does, everyone has the Holy Spirit? Mean.as it’s not biblical Free

That’s not what God’s word says.

I didn't say "everyone," I said "every believer." Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation; every believer can pray in the Spirit and to the Spirit. So, what did you mean by saying that you are "in direct contact with the Holy Spirit"?

It says, what it says, what ever God speaks out of his mouth, it will never come back void.

saiah 55:11​

​

King James Version​

​

​

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Okay, but that verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is in relation to this discussion.

 

[Free]

That does not follow in my mind.

For example: There are 5 things to do... let's call them A,B,C,D,E where E is His choice to 'not lie'
God chooses to do A,B,C,D,E ... everything He wants to do

You can look at it another way. Anything contrary to what God chooses to do He cannot do, which does not mean He can't do everything He chooses to do. Choosing to not do a thing falls within the definition of Him doing what every He chooses.

I was tired when I wrote that so I'm not quite sure what I was thinking, and my wording is a bit ambiguous. lol I think maybe the statements I was addressing changed slightly and I was still thinking about the last two clauses of this: "God can do whatever pleases him, he can’t lie though,there is nothing that God can’t do." There is some confusion between arguing "God can do whatever pleases him" as we all "there is nothing that God can't do." Those are two different arguments.

 

[Little Owl]

To say that “God can do anything he chooses to do,” but that “he also can’t lie,” is a contradiction. Either “God can do anything he chooses to do,” which means he can lie, or God “can’t lie” and therefore cannot “do anything he chooses to do.”

If there is just one thing that God cannot do, it follows that he cannot do anything he chooses. And, if there is one thing, there are likely more.

God cannot lie, he cannot learn, he cannot sin, he cannot be unjust, he cannot be unfaithful, he cannot make a square circle, he cannot make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it, etc.

All the things God cannot do can be summed up by saying that God cannot do anything that goes against his nature—“he cannot deny himself” (2 Tim. 2:13)—which includes the logically impossible.


I’m not sure what you mean by that since every believer has the Holy Spirit and so is “in direct contact.”


Of course.


Yes.


That verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible. Also, you’re again contradicting what you said earlier in your post—“he can’t lie.” If “he can’t lie,” then by definition he cannot do all things.

You strive overmuch fixating on what you insist God cannot do.

 

[Free]

You strive overmuch fixating on what you insist God cannot do.

Because it’s the answer to the question posed by the OP. We must have right thoughts about God and not diminish who he is by stating that he can do that which he absolutely cannot do.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Small list of thing God cannot do:
can't lie
can't be ignorant of anything
can't change
can't create another God
can't know what nothing will do
can't make a mistake
can't lose at poker (giggle) ... least wise, not in the long run ... gee, wouldn't want Him to cut the deck

 

[jasonc]

Small list of thing God cannot do:
can't lie
can't be ignorant of anything
can't change
can't create another God
can't know what nothing will do
can't make a mistake
can't lose at poker (giggle) ... least wise, not in the long run ... gee, wouldn't want Him to cut the deck

Be Arminian, lol

 

[Ritajanice]

You said: "God can do anything he chooses to do, he also can’t lie,there is nothing that God can’t do."

Indeed, and he can.

Can he choose to do the logically impossible? Can he choose to go against his nature? Can he choose to sin?

That makes no sense to me, your first sentence, because it’s coming from your own reasoning.

Are you saying God can lie, I already answered that question, no God can’t lie.

Of course. What does this have to do with the discussion? The discussion is whether or not God can do what is logically impossible.

What’s logically impossible to God, His logic isn’t our logic is it?

What does this have to do with the discussion?


I didn't say "everyone," I said "every believer." Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation; every believer can pray in the Spirit and to the Spirit. So, what did you mean by saying that you are "in direct contact with the Holy Spirit"?

Scripture please?

If we are Born Of the Spirit, then we are spirit children, therefore in direct fellowship with God, via his Holy Spirit, God communicates with our spirit, via the Holy Spirit . How do we know that we are Born Again?..by whose witness,?

Okay, but that verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is in relation to this discussion.

Brother, as I explained, his logic isn’t our logic is it..his thoughts and ways are much higher than our logic, remember that he knows every thought that every person is thinking in the world, is that his logic?

It’s certainly not my logic.

 

[Free]

That makes no sense to me, your first sentence, because it’s coming from your own reasoning.

It's coming from the thread title, which is the subject of this thread. It's a legitimate question.

Are you saying God can lie, I already answered that question, no God can’t lie.

No, I am certainly not saying God can lie. I clearly asked: Can he choose to go against his nature? Can he choose to sin?

What’s logically impossible to God,

I listed several things.

His logic isn’t our logic is it?

Yes, it is. It is the basis of our logic; we just use it imperfectly because we're fallen. God is logic and we're made in his image. Without logic we couldn't even survive one day nor could we communicate meaningfully.

Scripture please?

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)

2Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us,
2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. (ESV)

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (ESV)

Brother, as I explained, his logic isn’t our logic is it..his thoughts and ways are much higher than our logic, remember that he knows every thought that every person is thinking in the world, is that his logic?

It’s certainly not my logic.

You're conflating thinking with logic. They are not one and the same. Yes, his thoughts and ways are higher than ours, and his logic perfect and complete, but that doesn't mean that our logic doesn't derive from his. Nor does it mean that he can do the logically impossible.

 

[Ritajanice]

It's coming from the thread title, which is the subject of this thread. It's a legitimate question.


No, I am certainly not saying God can lie. I clearly asked: Can he choose to go against his nature? Can he choose to sin?

I listed several things.

Do you understand the nature of God, because I certainly don’t .,I only know of his Love because he first loved me in my heart/ Spirit, when the Spirit birthed my spirit,

Yes, it is. It is the basis of our logic; we just use it imperfectly because we're fallen. God is logic and we're made in his image. Without logic we couldn't even survive one day nor could we communicate meaningfully.

Sorry, I don’t understand your meaning of logic, I only understand spiritual matters.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)

2Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us,
2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. (ESV)

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (ESV)


You're conflating thinking with logic. They are not one and the same. Yes, his thoughts and ways are higher than ours, and his logic perfect and complete, but that doesn't mean that our logic doesn't derive from his. Nor does it mean that he can do the logically impossible.

Sorry I don’t understand the way you understand , I understand in the spirit not in the logic, that makes no sense to me...anyway..I will move onto another thread, with respect, I honestly can’t follow your understanding of logic...or your understanding of the logic of God..I’m a spirit child as I already explained...I can only understand my Father God..which comes by divine revelation..

 

[Free]

Do you understand the nature of God, because I certainly don’t .,I only know of his Love because he first loved me in my heart/ Spirit, when the Spirit birthed my spirit,

You don't know of spirit, light, holiness, justice, mercy, grace, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, or logic? We can't fully understand the nature of God, of course, and no one is suggesting we can, but God has revealed much about himself in the Bible.

Sorry, I don’t understand your meaning of logic, I only understand spiritual matters.

While that may sound biblical and pious, it is neither of those things. From Jesus himself, about the most important commandment:

Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (ESV)

Being able to think and reason well, including using logic, is biblical and a Christian imperative.

Sorry I don’t understand the way you understand , I understand in the spirit not in the logic, that makes no sense to me...anyway..I will move onto another thread, with respect, I honestly can’t follow your understanding of logic...or your understanding of the logic of God..I’m a spirit child as I already explained...

And God is logic, in the same way he is love. Being a "spirit child" has nothing to do with whether or not one understands or uses logic.

 

[Ritajanice]

You don't know of spirit, light, holiness, justice, mercy, grace, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, or logic? We can't fully understand the nature of God, of course, and no one is suggesting we can, but God has revealed much about himself in the Bible.

You know nothing of the Spirit, not until he decides to birth our spirit.

While that may sound biblical and pious, it is neither of those things.

in your opinion.

From Jesus himself, about the most important commandment:

Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (ESV)

Tell me how do you know that God is who he says he is?

Being able to think and reason well, including using logic, is biblical and a Christian imperative.

Don’t agree, we reason in the spirit we also discuss in the spirit, we are Spirit led.

And God is logic, in the same way he is love. Being a "spirit child" has nothing to do with whether or not one understands or uses logic.

Being a spirit child is just that.. did you read my post..your understanding of logic, doesn’t make it the truth..it’s an opinion.

Please use scripture saying that God is logic in the same way he is love, it’s confusing, because it’s not biblical.

Also how would you know that God is Love, where does he love us first?

Off topic, but, you also went off topic, many threads go off topic.

 

[Ritajanice]

but God has revealed much about himself in the Bible.

Is that the only way we know God ,just by reading the Bible?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from?

 

[Ritajanice]

Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength

How would you know how to do this?

If we post scripture m we should be able to interpret it.

 

[jasonc]

Words have meaning .

If I can't understand sin and sin is a superfluous then how can I repent . That's logic as I must understand what good or evil is. God defined evil and good as He alone is the arbiter of justice .

If he can lie then lying isnt quite a sin

There would be now pure definition of good .since once God became evil all that Good can be evil and the reverse .

God won't do that .He isn't the author of confusion .

 

[Free]

You know nothing of the Spirit, not until he decides to birth our spirit.

I don't see how this addresses what I stated.

in your opinion.

Tell me how do you know that God is who he says he is?

In God's opinion, it would seem, but I don't see what this has to do with the verse I posted.

Don’t agree, we reason in the spirit we also discuss in the spirit, we are Spirit led.

Depending on precisely what you mean by "we reason in the spirit we also discuss in the spirit, we are Spirit led," similar sentiments are what lead to all manner of subjective and erroneous interpretations of Scripture. I've seen it numerous times on these forums where those who claim to only be led by the Spirit disagree with and contradict the interpretation of Scripture of others who claim to only be led by the Spirit.

We dishonor God by not loving him with all our minds and using our God-given intellect and reasoning as an aid to come to right understandings of Scripture, with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Being a spirit child is just that.. did you read my post..your understanding of logic, doesn’t make it the truth..it’s an opinion.

Is just what, exactly? Yes, I read your post. Jesus said that the greatest commandment included loving God with all our mind. Does being a "spirit child" negate what Jesus said? To love God with all one's mind would mean to its fullest capacity and ability, would it not? Do you believe that we are made in God's image?

Please use scripture saying that God is logic in the same way he is love, it’s confusing, because it’s not biblical.

It's not confusing because it's not biblical, it's because it isn't explicitly stated. One has to consider the nature of God, the nature of language and communication, and the nature of man, to an extent.

Isa 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
...
Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
...
Act 18:19 And they came to Ephesus, and he left them there, but he himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

Act 24:25 And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, “Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you.”

(All ESV.)

Reasoning requires the use of logic; it is the application of logic.

Logic exists. So, either God created logic, logic just exists in the same way God exists, or God is logic, in that it is an aspect of his nature the same way he is love and light.

Also how would you know that God is Love, where does he love us first?

Because John wrote that "God is love" in 1 John 4:8, 16.

How would you know how to do this?

If we post scripture m we should be able to interpret it.

It's pretty simple. It means that we have to use our minds to the greatest capability that we each have in our submission to him, in our worship of and obedience to him, and to come to know him and his will. In so doing we show that we love him.

 

[Ritajanice]

I don't see how this addresses what I stated.


In God's opinion, it would seem, but I don't see what this has to do with the verse I posted.


Depending on precisely what you mean by "we reason in the spirit we also discuss in the spirit, we are Spirit led," similar sentiments are what lead to all manner of subjective and erroneous interpretations of Scripture. I've seen it numerous times on these forums where those who claim to only be led by the Spirit disagree with and contradict the interpretation of Scripture of others who claim to only be led by the Spirit.

We dishonor God by not loving him with all our minds and using our God-given intellect and reasoning as an aid to come to right understandings of Scripture, with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Sorry you can’t love God in our intellect, to love God back, you must know that he loved us first, in our heart/spirit..only the Spirit can witness the love of God to our heart,what’s God given intellect.?

Is just what, exactly? Yes, I read your post. Jesus said that the greatest commandment included loving God with all our mind. Does being a "spirit child" negate what Jesus said? To love God with all one's mind would mean to its fullest capacity and ability, would it not? Do you believe that we are made in God's image?

I believe we can only know how to love God back, once he has birthed us in the Spirit, his Spirit is Love, it’s so overwhelming it blows your mind.

It's not confusing because it's not biblical, it's because it isn't explicitly stated. One has to consider the nature of God, the nature of language and communication, and the nature of man, to an extent.

Isa 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
...
Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
...
Act 18:19 And they came to Ephesus, and he left them there, but he himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

Act 24:25 And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, “Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you.”

(All ESV.)

Reasoning requires the use of logic; it is the application of logic.

Logic exists. So, either God created logic, logic just exists in the same way God exists, or God is logic, in that it is an aspect of his nature the same way he is love and light.


Because John wrote that "God is love" in 1 John 4:8, 16.

You can only know the Love Of God in one’s spirit..his love overwhelms , or in my case it did, , his love for me, when I became Born Of The Spirit.blew my mind..

This logical stuff, I can honestly say I have no understanding of, I’m not saying it’s not true,just that I don’t understand it..neither do I have to, only God can bring me to understanding logic, so far he hasn’t.

It's pretty simple. It means that we have to use our minds to the greatest capability that we each have in our submission to him, in our worship of and obedience to him, and to come to know him and his will. In so doing we show that we love him.

The renewing of our minds..the Spirit teaches us obedience and he disciplines us, that at times can be agony to bear.

 

[jasonc]

Huh?

God revealing His nature to us then our minds are able to see the nature as revealed.

God being triune doesn't easily make sense to me but tht scripture is there .I accepted it .I can reason with anti trinitarian
God uses words and arguments via his Word to warn others to repent and to Judge .

His Judgement isn't guilty because nah I don't like you .but because I warned you of that sin and now I must execute justice because you are evil .

 

[KV-44-v1]

Okay, but that verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible, so I'm not sure what your point is in relation to this discussion.

If God claimed that He could do the logically impossible, He would not be lying? or would He? But He is COMPLETELY UNABLE to lie according to your belief.

So if God says that He can, the belief ""He cannot do the logically impossible "" crumbles to pieces.

Besides, the arguments for God being able to do the "logically impossible" RELY on logic in the first place! So technically everything is logically possible for God?