CAN God do the the logically impossible? Why / why not?

[Fastfredy0]

It isntohical for a man to walk on water but Jesus did that.

Hey, I've walked on water. I use to bare foot behind a boot. (Aside: hurts your feet and I was not particularly good at it)

The grand daughter can also walk on water:
(she lacks faith, therefore the life jacket)
(the dog has yet to learn)

 

[Free]

The article rightly understood does not support your premise.

It's as though you're reading a different article. I even quoted and highlighted a portion of the article which states exactly what I have been consistently stating--logic is not something outside of God, God is logic.

God is the creator of the natural world and its laws. Those laws define reality. Everything is of and from God. Yet,God is outside of and above,beyond,his creation.

It is illogical to insist God must be conformed by,confined by,his creation.

Logic is our domain. Not God's. God created what defines in our world, Logic. The created does not limit the creator.

I agree, it would be illogical to insist that God must be conformed and confined by his creation, but you're assuming that logic is something God created. But, that isn't the case--God is logic, just as the article states.

 

[Free]

So, if logic was not part of God's nature then in theory God could create a rock too big for Him to lift and then He would lift it?

I think that would be the case if he created logic and so wasn't "bound" by it. But, if logic just existed apart from God, then I think he would be "bound" by it and so could do neither.

Why do you have to ask such questions? lol

The definition of a PERFECT God would change in a world where logic was not a foundation of knowledge.

I think so. If God could contradict his nature, then he could sin, which, as I have stated, would mean he is completely untrustworthy.

It is difficult to discuss this as it relies on the possibility that there could be an illogical world and we only have logic to postulate what that world might be like.
LOL ... philosophy is not my strong suit

Then just stop. lol You're making my head hurt. I actually do like trying to wrap my head around it, so thanks for the questions. It's good to ponder the nature of God, as who we think he is really matters (as you know).

 

[jasonc]

Illogical world .that lies in automotive engineering.

Can't make it simple .

 

[Fastfredy0]

Why do you have to ask such questions?

Like doing a puzzle .... you sort it all out for some reason, then scrabble it up and put it back in the box.
"what if" questions can be entertaining

Then just stop. lol You're making my head hurt.

LOL

I actually do like trying to wrap my head around it, so thanks for the questions.

Me too .. though this question is above my pay grade

It's good to ponder the nature of God, as who we think he is really matters (as you know).

Agreed ... but then there was Job who was chastened for doing something similar. I often pray for forgiveness for what I think that is in error. His thoughts aren't our thoughts so my batting average must be mighty low.

Have a good day ... bundle up

 

[KV-44-v1]

If God could contradict his nature, then he could sin, which, as I have stated, would mean he is completely untrustworthy

This makes zero sense. We have His Will to rely on. I could destroy my keyboard right now, does that mean i'm "untrustworthy" with it, merely because i can destroy it? Absurd.

We can trust God because of His record, regardless of if He can or can't sin.

 

[Free]

I could destroy my keyboard right now, does that mean i'm "untrustworthy" with it, merely because i can destroy it? Absurd.

Yes, that is absurd, but that is because it's a false analogy.

This makes zero sense.

On the contrary, it makes perfect, logical sense.

We have His Will to rely on.

We can trust God because of His record, regardless of if He can or can't sin.

But, these are fallaciously begging the question. Why do you think you "have His Will to rely on"? How do you actually know that "We can trust God because of His record"? Is it because the Bible says so, which you believe is his revelation to us?

If God can go against his nature, then that means he can act in whatever way he so chooses. Among the numerous sins he could commit, he could lie. That means the whole Bible could be a lie, including what he supposedly reveals about himself. He could also be unjust, which means that in the end, if there even is a Great White Throne Judgement, he could just say "Gotcha!" and then send every single human to hell to be tortured for all eternity, or just cause us all to cease to exist. At any point in time, he could simply just choose to end it all or commit any evil act he wanted.

In other words, if God can go against his nature, then you first have to assume that he is trustworthy and that what the Bible says is actually from him, in order to believe that he is trustworthy and that the Bible is from him and therefore true in what it reveals about him. Do you see how circular that is?

 

[KV-44-v1]

But, these are fallaciously begging the question.

Relying on God's Record is not "begging the question".
At no point has His Record been disproven.

Why do you think you "have His Will to rely on"?

Because He refuses to lie. always.

How do you actually know that "We can trust God because of His record"? Is it because the Bible says so, which you believe is his revelation to us?

And it's because of evidence after evidence backing the Bible.
What would God's motive for lying be, even? He's perfect.

If God can go against his nature, then that means he can act in whatever way he so chooses. Among the numerous sins he could commit, he could lie. That means the whole Bible could be a lie, including what he supposedly reveals about himself.

And I could spontaenously turn into a nuclear bomb and blow a crater in the planet. Actually, that's more likely than God sinning not simply because He "can't" , but "won't". His Will is perfect. It's proven.
The chance of God sinning is NONE. Whether your stance or my posts' stance is correct.

" He could also be unjust, which means that in the end, if there even is a Great White Throne Judgement, he could just say "Gotcha!" and then send every single human to hell to be tortured for all eternity,"

One great thing about God is, He always wants to do the right thing.
Why are we praising God if He has NO choice other than to follow a standard?

or just cause us all to cease to exist. At any point in time, he could simply just choose to end it all or commit any evil act he wanted.

One great thing about God is, He always wants to do the right thing. And does it.

"Yes, that is absurd, but that is because it's a false analogy."

THAT is what begs the question, because it assumes "God cant do logically impossible".

In other words, if God can go against his nature, then you first have to assume that he is trustworthy and that what the Bible says is actually from him, in order to believe that he is trustworthy and that the Bible is from him and therefore true in what it reveals about him. Do you see how circular that is?

Athiests also say it is circular if you think God CAN'T go against His Nature. You first have to prove He can ONLY follow It, and using the Bible to do so is "circular".

 

[KV-44-v1]

This is a nonsense argument that also is based on a lack of proper interpretation and understanding.

This is unfulfilling and the person can easily counter.

 

[Free]

Relying on God's Record is not "begging the question".
At no point has His Record been disproven.

Because He refuses to lie. always.

And it's because of evidence after evidence backing the Bible.
What would God's motive for lying be, even? He's perfect.

Again, if God can go against his nature, then that is all begging the question. You're assuming that it is God's record, that God refuses to lie, that God is perfect. Really, you can't even know what his nature is.

And I could spontaenously turn into a nuclear bomb and blow a crater in the planet.

What does that have to do with anything?

Actually, that's more likely than God sinning not simply because He "can't" , but "won't". His Will is perfect. It's proven.
The chance of God sinning is NONE. Whether your stance or my posts' stance is correct.

One great thing about God is, He always wants to do the right thing.
Why are we praising God if He has NO choice other than to follow a standard?

One great thing about God is, He always wants to do the right thing. And does it.

Again, if God can go against his nature, then that is all begging the question.

THAT is what begs the question, because it assumes "God cant do logically impossible".

He can't because such things are contradictory, as has been pointed out many times in this thread by various members.

Athiests also say it is circular if you think God CAN'T go against His Nature. You first have to prove He can ONLY follow It, and using the Bible to do so is "circular".

Atheists have a lot of wrong thoughts about God.

 

[Free]

This is unfulfilling and the person can easily counter.

Of course it's unfulfilling, because the argument was nonsense. My comment was not an argument to refute the nonsense argument, so of course a "person can easily counter."

 

[follower]

The Bible doesn't state God is bound by logic.

The Bible Does State that the Creator stands by/ honors / His Word . This is often not logical to men.

 

[Little Owl]

Agreed



So, if logic was not part of God's nature then in theory God could create a rock too big for Him to lift and then He would lift it? The definition of a PERFECT God would change in a world where logic was not a foundation of knowledge.
It is difficult to discuss this as it relies on the possibility that there could be an illogical world and we only have logic to postulate what that world might be like.
LOL ... philosophy is not my strong suit

No worries. Free is replying to you later in this thread excepting parts of an article I posted earlier.

 

[Ritajanice]

God can do whatever pleases him, he can’t lie though,there is nothing that God can’t do.

Unfortunately because we are mere humans , we limit him, because he imo is 100% outside of our own understanding, his ways and thoughts are much higher than ours, just my thoughts.

 

[Free]

God can do whatever pleases him, he can’t lie though,there is nothing that God can’t do.

Do you see how this is a self-refuting sentence? Either "there is nothing that God can't do" or "he can't lie." Both statements cannot be true.

 

[follower]

Both statements are true. God could lie, but He won't. He is not a man that He should (nor would) lie like all men.

 

[Free]

Both statements are true.

They cannot be.

God could lie, but He won't. He is not a man that He should (nor would) lie like all men.

You diminish God and make him less than he is, and ignore Scripture in the process:

Heb 6:18 so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. (ESV)

Not he could but he won’t, rather, “it is impossible.” Stick to what the Bible says or you’ll go wrong again.

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you see how this is a self-refuting sentence? Either "there is nothing that God can't do" or "he can't lie." Both statements cannot be true.

I don’t actually,no, God can do anything he chooses to do, he also can’t lie, sorry, what is there God can’t do , if it pleases him to do so?

Are you aware of what pleases God?

What does he say about his will?

I’m in direct contact with the Holy Spirit.
He also can’t lie..

The Bible also isn’t God.. do you think God speaks to his children outside of the Bible?

Aren’t you in his will ,all day every day?

Are you led by the Spirit?

There is nothing that goes out of the mouth of God will come back void.

Do you understand this scripture.

Isaiah 55:11

King James Version

​

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.






Short commentary.

What scripture says God can do all things?
“Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus through out all ages, world without end. Amen.” Ephesians 3:20-21. Sometimes we have to be reminded that God is able to do all things.

 

[Ritajanice]

Continued.

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Free]

I don’t actually,no, God can do anything he chooses to do, he also can’t lie, sorry, what is there God can’t do , if it pleases him to do so?

To say that “God can do anything he chooses to do,” but that “he also can’t lie,” is a contradiction. Either “God can do anything he chooses to do,” which means he can lie, or God “can’t lie” and therefore cannot “do anything he chooses to do.”

If there is just one thing that God cannot do, it follows that he cannot do anything he chooses. And, if there is one thing, there are likely more.

God cannot lie, he cannot learn, he cannot sin, he cannot be unjust, he cannot be unfaithful, he cannot make a square circle, he cannot make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it, etc.

All the things God cannot do can be summed up by saying that God cannot do anything that goes against his nature—“he cannot deny himself” (2 Tim. 2:13)—which includes the logically impossible.

I’m in direct contact with the Holy Spirit.

I’m not sure what you mean by that since every believer has the Holy Spirit and so is “in direct contact.”

He also can’t lie..

Of course.

The Bible also isn’t God.. do you think God speaks to his children outside of the Bible?

Aren’t you in his will ,all day every day?

Are you led by the Spirit?

There is nothing that goes out of the mouth of God will come back void.

Do you understand this scripture.

Isaiah 55:11​

​

King James Version​

​

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Yes.

Short commentary.

What scripture says God can do all things?
“Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus through out all ages, world without end. Amen.” Ephesians 3:20-21. Sometimes we have to be reminded that God is able to do all things.

That verse doesn’t say that God can do anything and everything including the logically impossible. Also, you’re again contradicting what you said earlier in your post—“he can’t lie.” If “he can’t lie,” then by definition he cannot do all things.