Can women teach God's word.

[jaybo]

Christians follow the orders of God.
God is the head of Christ.
Christ is the head of the man.
Man is the head of the woman. (1 Cor 11:3)

Nobody can "take" power, as it must be given.
I will not give power to women in a teaching capacity over me.
I wonder why you would?
Why are you so eager to serve women when it is so unbiblical?

It is very tragic that you can write something like this: I will not give power to women in a teaching capacity over me. It's not yours to give, buddy!

Also, writing "Why are you so eager to serve women..? is clearly twisting my words.

Why are you so into dominance??? What are you so afraid of? A woman knowing more than you?

Twisting my words is proof that your argument is false. Men and women are equal in the eyes of God. There is a verse that sums the principle of all being equal in Christ...

"There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

 

[jaybo]

"My" doctrine, with scriptural backing.

No .. your doctrine. It's obvious that you're just plain afraid of women! Very sad!!!

 

[Tenchi]

I agree when you run out of reasoned argument. You are caught up in erroneous legalism. There is no reason why women can't teach God's word (the OP subject).

But I haven't argued otherwise. In fact, in this thread I have actually explicitly remarked that they can teach God's word. Just not in the role of Pastor/Elder.

You are just employing legalism to justify male dominance. Very sad! I have zero respect for you and others like you who think that dominance is Scriptural.

Dominance? God reserving the Pastor/Elder role for men is about dominance? You need to read the Bible more, it seems. The Pastor/Elder role is about responsibility and service, not dominance.

It seems, too, that you aren't clear on what legalism is.

Fortunately, whether or not you respect me is of no concern to me whatever. So long as I'm walking well with my Maker, it couldn't matter less to me who does or doesn't respect me.

 

[for_his_glory]

The subject of 1 Corinthians 14:1-25 is about prophecy and tongues, not speaking in general. Vs. 26-40 is about orderly worship. Paul is giving a number of regulations for the proper use of the gift of tongues.

When we go back and read 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 Paul gave rules for women praying and prophesying in the church, and also rules for the men about covering their heads so this shows that women were allowed to give prophecy and also speak in tongues for the purpose of edifying the body of Christ and also giving God's revelations to the body of Christ

Many have been taught that only a man is allowed to exercise the gifts of tongues and to give prophecy in the church, but we can clearly see by those verses that God also uses women to to exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Also, according to 1 Corinthians 12 it only states that the Holy Spirit gives these gifts to those who make up the body of Christ (church), not just men only, and to possess with sincere and intense conviction, or in other words to take these gifts seriously.

1 Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I do need to add that there is a difference between speaking in tongues as that is for the edification of the Church body and speaking words of prophecy are revelations of God spoken for the Church body.

Now let's go read 1 Corinthians 14:33-34 that is about orderly worship. Man and brethern is just a masculine term, but also includes women as both are made in the image of God.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing His creation.

Back to 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 that is about orderly worship as I want to point out vs. 33-35.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Why would Paul say that God is not the author of confusion. I'm not seeing Paul saying a women is not to speak in tongues or to give prophecy, as all of this comes by the Holy Spirit working through whom He chooses as even I have done both as well as many women, but that there was no orderly fashion within these women as they were becoming confusing being out of order probably all trying to speak at the same time. I also see many women in the Corinth Church asking many questions during the service and being told to hold their questions till they got home and to ask their husbands these questions they had.

 

[jaybo]

But I haven't argued otherwise. In fact, in this thread I have actually explicitly remarked that they can teach God's word. Just not in the role of Pastor/Elder.



Dominance? God reserving the Pastor/Elder role for men is about dominance? You need to read the Bible more, it seems. The Pastor/Elder role is about responsibility and service, not dominance.

It seems, too, that you aren't clear on what legalism is.

Fortunately, whether or not you respect me is of no concern to me whatever. So long as I'm walking well with my Maker, it couldn't matter less to me who does or doesn't respect me.

You're still arguing legalism (the law) when you write that women can teach God's word. Just not in the role of Pastor/Elder. Why not???

So long as I am walking well with my Maker, those who doesn't respect me are not important to me. It does matter to me if those whom I respect discuss my behavior, attitude, and faith.

 

[Tenchi]

You're still arguing legalism (the law) when you write that women can teach God's word. Just not in the role of Pastor/Elder. Why not???

As I said, I haven't asserted that women can't teach God's word; I've only pointed out from the Bible that they aren't permitted by God to do so in the Pastor/Elder role, exerting spiritual authority over men within a church community.

So long as I am walking well with my Maker, those who doesn't respect me are not important to me. It does matter to me if those whom I respect discuss my behavior, attitude, and faith.

That's fine.

 

[jaybo]

As I said, I haven't asserted that women can't teach God's word; I've only pointed out from the Bible that they aren't permitted by God to do so in the Pastor/Elder role, exerting spiritual authority over men within a church community.



That's fine.

That's what I said. I also asked why you're into legalism. Where does it say that God said that women aren't permitted to teach His word in the Pastor/Elder role? If you're going to quote 1 Timothy, a) the authorship of that letter is questionable, i.e., it probably was not written by Paul himself and b) the author was writing about his rules for a 1st century church. We are not living in a society like that any longer, when women were uneducated and the property of their husbands or fathers. That specific instruction is not applicable to the 21st Century US or other Western nations.

Look at what is happening in Iran if you want example of women being dominated for no reason except men's interpretation of God's law.

 

[Cooper]

Looking on the bright side, mothers are told to teach their children the things of God in their formative years. When some of those boys become pastors, they are influenced by what they learnt at their mother's knee. In this way, the message continues through the generations, spoken by men who owe the basics of their Christian education to their mothers. So when praying about the nation's state of health, say a special prayer for the mothers. They are the moral and Christian backbone of the country, with men, acting simply as their mother's mouthpiece, if they received a Christian education that is.
.

 

[jasonc]

I guess if women aren't equal in every jot and tittle of skills they are oppressed even in the church .

My wife's pastor isn't in any leadership role save the worship team as she sings but that's not an elder .she leads the women's classes . She is a physician assistant.highly educated .

Yet submits .
Once one blurs that command it's not far from saying way out there things

Seen it .

 

[jaybo]

I guess if women aren't equal in every jot and tittle of skills they are oppressed even in the church .

My wife's pastor isn't in any leadership role save the worship team as she sings but that's not an elder .she leads the women's classes . She is a physician assistant.highly educated .

Yet submits .
Once one blurs that command it's not far from saying way out there things

Seen it .

I agree with your first sentence "I guess if women aren't equal in every jot and tittle of skills they are oppressed even in the church."

However, you also wrote "Once one blurs that command it's not far from saying way out there things." This is a classic example of reductio ad absurdum. As soon as it begins to rain we can say that God will flood the earth as He did in Noah's time!

Here is a description of "submission": the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person. Do you think that is what God wants in His church? "... yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person."

 

[Tenchi]

That's what I said. I also asked why you're into legalism.

And I indicated to you that you don't seem to understand what "legalism" is - that, or our definitions of the term differ widely.

Where does it say that God said that women aren't permitted to teach His word in the Pastor/Elder role? If you're going to quote 1 Timothy, a) the authorship of that letter is questionable, i.e., it probably was not written by Paul himself

I don't believe this at all. Liberal "theologians" may be eager to cast doubt on the authorship of the Pauline epistles, as they are eager to do with all of the Bible, diminishing the supernatural nature of God's word in so doing, but I think their contentions are weak and spurious.

"Genuineness.—The ancient Church never doubted of their being canonical and written by Paul. They are in the Peschito Syriac version of the second century. Muratori's Fragment on the Canon of Scripture, at the close of the second century, acknowledges them as such. Irenæus [Against Heresies, 1; 3.3.3; 4.16.3; 2.14.8; 3.11.1; 1.16.3], quotes 1Ti 1:4, 9; 1Ti 6:20; 2Ti 4:9-11; Titus 3:10. Clement of Alexandria [Miscellanies, 2, p. 457; 3, pp. 534, 536; 1, p. 350], quotes 1Ti 6:1, 20; Second Timothy, as to deaconesses; Titus 1:12. Tertullian [The Prescription against Heretics, 25; 6], quotes 1Ti 6:20; 2Ti 1:14; 1Ti 1:18; 1Ti 6:13, &c. 2Ti 2:2; Titus 3:10, 11. Eusebius includes the three in the "universally acknowledged" Scriptures. Also Theophilus of Antioch [To Autolychus, 3.14], quotes 1Ti 2:1, 2; Titus 3:1, and Caius (in Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 6.20]) recognizes their authenticity. Clement of Rome, in the end of the first century, in his first Epistle to the Corinthians [29], quotes 1Ti 2:8. Ignatius, in the beginning of the second century, in Epistle to Polycarp, [6], alludes to 2Ti 2:4. Polycarp, in the beginning of the second century [Epistle to the Philippians, 4], alludes to 2Ti 2:4; and in the ninth chapter to 2Ti 4:10. Hegisippus, in the end of the second century, in Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 3.32], alludes to 1Ti 6:3, 20. Athenagoras, in the end of the second century, alludes to 1Ti 6:16. Justin Martyr, in the middle of the second century [Dialogue with Trypho, 47], alludes to Titus 3:4. The Gnostic Marcion alone rejected these Epistles."

A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments - Jamieson, Fawcett and Brown.

the author was writing about his rules for a 1st century church. We are not living in a society like that any longer, when women were uneducated and the property of their husbands or fathers. That specific instruction is not applicable to the 21st Century US or other Western nations.

I disagree and have already posted as to why in this thread. Feel free to go back to my first post in this thread and read what I wrote.

Look at what is happening in Iran if you want example of women being dominated for no reason except men's interpretation of God's law.

As I already pointed out, God's word does not allow for domination of men over women (1 Peter 5:1-3; Galatians 5:13; Romans 12:5; Galatians 3:28, etc.), though it does prohibit women from fulfilling a role God has reserved for men (ie. the office of Pastor/Elder). How this prohibition equates to domination - especially in light of the passages cited - I have no idea.

Islam is a false, anachronistic religion. Is it any surprise, then, that women are oppressed by it? No reasonable interpretation of the New Testament could ever arrive at the same oppressive treatment of them. But, again, this does not mean God has not established certain gender-specific roles. He has.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the answer is they CAN, but are they allowed to do so?

 

[Christ_empowered]

I came to see the wisdom of reserving some roles for men after seeing other arrangements in action. Along the same lines I came to see the value in following NT rules for minister selection and church governance too beyond the gender issue.

 

[Hopeful]

It is very tragic that you can write something like this: I will not give power to women in a teaching capacity over me. It's not yours to give, buddy!

It sure is.
You are only subjugated by those you allow to subjugate you.
God's word says not to allow women to teach or usurp authority over the male.
Why are you so against the word of God?

Also, writing "Why are you so eager to serve women..? is clearly twisting my words.

It was a question, not a "twisting of your words".
Have you no answer?

Why are you so into dominance??? What are you so afraid of? A woman knowing more than you?

I am "afraid" of women who walk after the flesh and manifest unGodliness by their disobedience to scripture.
I am "afraid" of men who allow it to occur.
I am "afraid" for their souls.

Twisting my words is proof that your argument is false. Men and women are equal in the eyes of God. There is a verse that sums the principle of all being equal in Christ..."There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Amen to that.
Men have only a part to play, but so do women.
Those parts don't cross-over.

 

[Hopeful]

No .. your doctrine. It's obvious that you're just plain afraid of women! Very sad!!!

I can only base my POVs on what God had written I my bible.
Thanks be to God for words that cannot be quashed by those living on the flesh instead of in the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree with your first sentence "I guess if women aren't equal in every jot and tittle of skills they are oppressed even in the church."

If obedience to Gods word seems like oppression, you may need to go worship someone else.

However, you also wrote "Once one blurs that command it's not far from saying way out there things." This is a classic example of reductio ad absurdum. As soon as it begins to rain we can say that God will flood the earth as He did in Noah's time!
Here is a description of "submission": the action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
Do you think that is what God wants in His church? "... yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person."

Yes.
God is the head of Jesus.
Jesus is the head of men.
Men are the head of women.
I don't feel at all oppressed by my status in relationship to God.
The devil did though, and we see what happened to him.

 

[electedbyHim]

I just finished watching this. I am pretty sure those who believe woman can be a leader in the church will not watch this. The woman in this thread who believe they are called to preach will be offended if they even watch this.

This is a man of God who tells it like it is.

 

[electedbyHim]

Scripture wins

 

[JLB]

But I haven't argued otherwise. In fact, in this thread I have actually explicitly remarked that they can teach God's word. Just not in the role of Pastor/Elder.



Dominance? God reserving the Pastor/Elder role for men is about dominance? You need to read the Bible more, it seems. The Pastor/Elder role is about responsibility and service, not dominance.

It seems, too, that you aren't clear on what legalism is.

Fortunately, whether or not you respect me is of no concern to me whatever. So long as I'm walking well with my Maker, it couldn't matter less to me who does or doesn't respect me.

I appreciate your comments and your attitude.

I may not agree with every single thing you say but most of it.


Thanks for sharing.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I just finished watching this. I am pretty sure those who believe woman can be a leader in the church will not watch this. The woman in this thread who believe they are called to preach will be offended if they even watch this.

This is a man of God who tells it like it is.

He doesn't even believe the bible he claims to follow.

Pretty sure he has blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

He is deceived.



JLB