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Catholicism and Infant Baptism

How can God be grieved at them going to hell, if they are not part of the elect he sent them there, no?
 
dancing queen said:
How can God be grieved at them going to hell, if they are not part of the elect he sent them there, no?
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For the same reason that we parents are grieved to have to punish our children. :wink:
 
So all 50 million babies who have been aborted in the United States go to hell even though they committed no sin? They go there because their mothers choose to have them aborted and not give them a chance to know Christ? We are told in Titus that God desires that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. But I guess that doesn't include babies who he does nothing to save. Nowhere in scripture does it say that any baby went to hell.
 
thessalonian said:
So all 50 million babies who have been aborted in the United States go to hell even though they committed no sin? They go there because their mothers choose to have them aborted and not give them a chance to know Christ? We are told in Titus that God desires that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. But I guess that doesn't include babies who he does nothing to save. Nowhere in scripture does it say that any baby went to hell.
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No, because as Jesus said in Luke 12:48 "...But the one who does not know his master's will and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows." And since aborted babies have not done anything deserving punishment, nor have they been born into the world (where sin exists) then they will not go to hell. So since they have not been born into a sinful world, there is no judgment or conviction on them, i.e. no hell, no heaven. It will thus be as if they were never born. :)

So you have to make sure you read every word in the bible because it's easy to miss phrases that are sometimes the most important phrases in the bible. That's also why it's so important not to change any word in the bible. :) I have to meet someone for lunch now so I'll be back later. :)
 
Heidi said:
And since aborted babies have not done anything deserving punishment, nor have they been born into the world (where sin exists) then they will not go to hell. So since they have not been born into a sinful world, there is no judgment or conviction on them, i.e. no hell, no heaven. It will thus be as if they were never born. :)
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Oh but they have!

Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Infants need a savior just as much as you or I do!
 
Heidi said:
No, because as Jesus said in Luke 12:48 "...But the one who does not know his master's will and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows." And since aborted babies have not done anything deserving punishment, nor have they been born into the world (where sin exists) then they will not go to hell. So since they have not been born into a sinful world, there is no judgment or conviction on them, i.e. no hell, no heaven. It will thus be as if they were never born. :)

So you have to make sure you read every word in the bible because it's easy to miss phrases that are sometimes the most important phrases in the bible. That's also why it's so important not to change any word in the bible. :) I have to meet someone for lunch now so I'll be back later. :)
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So abortion is okay in your book? They are anihilated or what? You have your own theology on all of this Heidi. However did you figure all this out when noone else has? Truly amazing. The second that baby leaves the birth canal and dies it's off to hell for it. You hyperparse english words and think you have the truth. The Bible was not written in English and English translations do not capture all that the greek and hebrew speak. That is the nature of translation. It is your pride in your own understanding that guides you.
 
thessalonian said:
The second that baby leaves the birth canal and dies it's off to hell for it.
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How much would it cost someone to save this babies soul? :-?
You sound just like pope leo, selling indulgences...
 
jgredline said:
How much would it cost someone to save this babies soul? :-?
You sound just like pope leo, selling indulgences...
Click to expand...

So I guess you think babies go to hell or what?

You are clueless about indulgences and put it on display for all. Only those who are clueless like you will think your posts have value. They have none.
 
Heidi said:
For the same reason that we parents are grieved to have to punish our children. :wink:
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But surely this is more than that. The theory of election is that God is sending them to hell because he choose to not because of something they did. If God chooses before anything that they are going to hell, are not part of the elect, then he designed them for hell.

You are upset if your child does wrong and you have to punish them. How can God be upset for sending people he designed for hell to hell?

From your comments that the baby can't go to heaven or hell, does that mean you don't believe babies have a soul before birth?
 
thessalonian said:
So I guess you think babies go to hell or what?

You are clueless about indulgences and put it on display for all. Only those who are clueless like you will think your posts have value. They have none.
Click to expand...

You are the one who said ''when babies die, they go to hell''....

Since I am clueless about indulgences, please explain them to us...
 
STOP!

Jav, you misunderstood Thess. I know what he did. He was only echoing Heidi's "theology". I know he doesn't believe they go to Hell.
 
vic C. said:
STOP!

Jav, you misunderstood Thess. I know what he did. He was only echoing Heidi's "theology". I know he doesn't believe they go to Hell.
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No because he believes that they are saved when they are baptized as Catholics when they are infants.

Ask him about babies that are not baptized? If they do not go to hell, then why infant baptism?
 
jgredline said:
You are the one who said ''when babies die, they go to hell''....

Since I am clueless about indulgences, please explain them to us...
Click to expand...

Another careful reading of my posts (just like the billy graham question yesterday) by jgred. Bravo for your reading and comprehension. It supports your cluelessness. You are only looking at posts for angles to twist and distort the words of the Church and the Catholics. More malicious bearing of false witness. Vic has it right.
 
Michael, I'm not in here to defend him; my only concern was to clear up one misconception, before it turned into yet another spitting contest. That was all.
 
Solo said:
No because he believes that they are saved when they are baptized as Catholics when they are infants.

Ask him about babies that are not baptized? If they do not go to hell, then why infant baptism?
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The Church makes no pronouncement on the unbaptized but leaves them to the mercy and justice of God. I do not see that as unreasonable but of course you will twist it and tell me I don't know what my Church teaches. Infant baptism guaranttes the infant that dies salvation until the age of reason where they are culpable for mortal sin.

By the way non-catholic infants who are baptized are saved as well, contrary to your previous twistings of Catholic teachings.
 
vic C. said:
STOP!

Jav, you misunderstood Thess. I know what he did. He was only echoing Heidi's "theology". I know he doesn't believe they go to Hell.
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:oops: Thess, I humbly apologize for taking you out of context...
 
Sorry, according to solo I can't forgive your sin. :-D

Just kidding. Accepted.
 
thessalonian said:
Sorry, according to solo I can't forgive your sin. :-D

Just kidding. Accepted.
Click to expand...

oK, COOL...but there is this issue of infant baptism....Let us approach this a different way...

Now I assume you had your kids baptized as babies...
My Questions are ,

1) Why?
2) What do u believe would happen if you did not baptize them and one were to pass away?
 
thessalonian said:
I answered that question already.
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Well, I just finished reading your posts again in this thread and do not see where u answered..Why don't u humor me and give me some nice short answers.
 
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