Changed from pretribulation to post-tribulation view of the rapture

[John Prewett]

............... The anti-christ will be a human man. ............

Amen ! A highly significant oft disputed fact.

Satan wants all to think the BEAST is most anything except a man.

Rev 17:11 says the Beast is a King, and a king is a man.

Then in Rev 13, immediately after the Beast is revealed,
the Rev repeatedly refers to the Beast by pronouns that refer to a MAN.

"his, his, his, his, him,his,his,his,him,he,he,he,his,his,his,him,him,him

 

[dianegcook]

Amen ! A highly significant oft disputed fact.

Satan wants all to think the BEAST is most anything except a man.

Rev 17:11 says the Beast is a King, and a king is a man.

Then in Rev 13, immediately after the Beast is revealed,
the Rev repeatedly refers to the Beast by pronouns that refer to a MAN.

"his, his, his, his, him,his,his,his,him,he,he,he,his,his,his,him,him,him

I believe most folks think it will be a man, probably with 666 engraved on his head like the movie "The Omen", lol
I just can't get pass the point that, that the whole world will worship a mere man.

 

[JLB]

I believe most folks think it will be a man, probably with 666 engraved on his head like the movie "The Omen", lol
I just can't get pass the point that, that the whole world will worship a mere man.

A man who claims to be God.


I worship the Lord Jesus Christ; God who became a Man.



JLB

 

[DiscipleDave]

I believe most folks think it will be a man, probably with 666 engraved on his head like the movie "The Omen", lol
I just can't get pass the point that, that the whole world will worship a mere man.

he will not have 666 on his forehead. Tell me something. If the earth is spinning faster and we have 9 hour days and 9 hour nights. and the Earth is wobbling in its orbit around the sun, and a mere man seems to be the one responsible for making it all stop and return back to normal, would the whole world praise and glorify this man, yes or no?

The whole world will put this man on a pedestal, you can count on that.

 

[DiscipleDave]

A man who claims to be God.


I worship the Lord Jesus Christ; God who became a Man.



JLB

Nay, He never professes (says) he is God, for he does not even believe in all those things. But if the people want to profess him to be their God, he will not prevent them from doing so. he does not believe in any kind of God whatsoever, but if they want to think he is, he will not stop them from calling him a god. He will think himself to be a type of God, not that he believes he is one, but if the whole world wants to think he is a god, he will not say otherwise to correct them.

 

[JLB]

Nay, He never professes (says) he is God, for he does not even believe in all those things. But if the people want to profess him to be their God, he will not prevent them from doing so. he does not believe in any kind of God whatsoever, but if they want to think he is, he will not stop them from calling him a god. He will think himself to be a type of God, not that he believes he is one, but if the whole world wants to think he is a god, he will not say otherwise to correct them.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4





JLB

 

[dianegcook]

A man who claims to be God.


I worship the Lord Jesus Christ; God who became a Man.



JLB

Yes, He was God in the flesh.
But, will He return as God in the flesh?
No
I believe Satan will try to be like Him.

Rev.13:11
And He had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon...trying to imitate Christ.

Christ was rejected by His own people, because He was man.

John 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?
How is it then, that He Saith, I came down from heaven?
Mark 6:3,4
Matt.13:55-58

 

[dianegcook]

he will not have 666 on his forehead. Tell me something. If the earth is spinning faster and we have 9 hour days and 9 hour nights. and the Earth is wobbling in its orbit around the sun, and a mere man seems to be the one responsible for making it all stop and return back to normal, would the whole world praise and glorify this man, yes or no?

The whole world will put this man on a pedestal, you can count on that.

No
Same scenario.
If you see a supernatural being, looking like a man, possibly have crucifixion marks on his hand and feet, doing miracles, claiming to be God, would you worship him?

And I agree, no 666 on his head.

 

[John Prewett]

"I saw a beast rising out of the sea, .............
The dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
"I saw one of his heads as if it was mortally wounded, but his deadly wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast.
They worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast.
And they worshiped the beast,....."

If one just believes/heeds the Revelation, it's not complicated.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

JLB

None of that verse says or teaches that he says he is God. he exalts himself above all that is called God, because he does not believe any Gods exist, they are children tales. he sits as God in the temple. Not because he himself calls himself a God, but because the people think he is. And because the people think he is a God, he shows himself as one to those people. But you should understand. this man is human, and this man knows full well that he is human. he does not believe in any kind of God whatsoever, But he will think that he is the most powerful human being on the planet, and in that sense, he will most certainly think he is a God. But only in the flesh, as a human. Spiritualism, religion, spirits, all will be condemned by him. God's of that kind are children tales.

 

[JLB]

None of that verse says or teaches that he says he is God.

who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:5

• showing himself that he is God.

• that he is God

JLB

 

[DiscipleDave]

who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:5

• showing himself that he is God.

• that he is God

JLB

So if i showed myself as a Prophet, that makes me one?

 

[Randy]

Please explain in a common sense way, how posttribbers will get to the marriage and supper that will take place in heaven before Jesus descends to the battle?

Show in Rev 19 where those proclaiming joy were harvested before that great battle as there are already a great many in heaven who belong to Jesus. Those who died pre gospel and were grandfathered into Christ and all those who have died in Christ for the last 2000 years. There is nothing that states a pretrib rapture. And that rejocing is followed with Jesus the rider on the white horse who has the double edge sword appears like a thief in the night on the last day. He will conquer the beast and the beast armies visible and invisible and gather His elect. Those elect alive on the earth will be caught up and clothed with immortality. Just as Paul wrote.

This coming is the last day Rev 16:15 and its at the very end of the end. Immediately following the great tribulation that occurs during the reign of the beast. The beast that kills the two witnesses in Rev 11. Just as Jesus stated, "Immediately following the distress of those days.."

So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ b

30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

 

[John Prewett]

................. Matt 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

When Jesus returns as per Rev 19, the saved will be with Him.
He won't be coming to earth to "gather the elect" like He did in the era of ancient Israel.

"I saw another great and marvelous sign in heaven: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God." Rev 15:1-2

 

[Randy]

When Jesus returns as per Rev 19, the saved will be with Him.
He won't be coming to earth to "gather the elect" like He did in the era of ancient Israel.

"I saw another great and marvelous sign in heaven: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God." Rev 15:1-2

If anyone in those days is in heaven during or prior to the great tribulation, with the exception of the two witnesses who were caught up, its through the death of the body. They would be those noted in the 1st resurrection. Those who lost their lives only to save their lives. Victory by the blood of Jesus. For if anyone in those days willfully takes the mark of the beast an worships the beast their place will be the lake of fire. In this case they will save their lives yet lose their souls to the 2nd death.

Jesus will gather from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
The elect are those in Christ. "children born NOT of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God."

Randy

 

[Randy]

The only answer I can think of about "this generation" are those which are alive when those signs and events start to take place. Not a 1st century rapture of Israelite's.
. Matt 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

As we know from Zach 14 the mount of olives will be slit in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies. Armies that are destroyed by God not man. As in armies of the beast. I don't think that happened in AD70.

 

[John Prewett]

The only answer I can think of about "this generation" are those which are alive when those signs and events start to take place. Not a 1st century rapture of Israelite's.
. Matt 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

As we know from Zach 14 the mount of olives will be slit in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies. Armies that are destroyed by God not man. As in armies of the beast. I don't think that happened in AD70.

Two groups will come to be. The saved and the lost.

The Beast will own the camp of the lost.
The lost will worship the Beast/image and take his “mark.”

Jesus will lead the camp of the saved.
The saved will not worship the Beast/image nor take his “mark.”

During the reign the Beast, the saved will be beheaded.

When the time of beheading comes, the saved will not fear, flee nor fight.

To the saved the guillotine will be a ‘portal to paradise.’

All Christians should aspire to "reign with Christ" therefore all Christians SHOULD LOOK FORWARD to being beheaded by the minions of the Beast because Rev 20:4 reveals we who will "reign with Christ" will have been BEHEADED (and will then convene with Jesus in heaven as per Rev 15 ....then follow Jesus back to this earth and "reign with Christ".

 

[for_his_glory]

he will not have 666 on his forehead. Tell me something. If the earth is spinning faster and we have 9 hour days and 9 hour nights. and the Earth is wobbling in its orbit around the sun, and a mere man seems to be the one responsible for making it all stop and return back to normal, would the whole world praise and glorify this man, yes or no?

The whole world will put this man on a pedestal, you can count on that.

There is already approximately 1.30 million that have him on a pedestal and worship him every day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Nay, He never professes (says) he is God, for he does not even believe in all those things. But if the people want to profess him to be their God, he will not prevent them from doing so. he does not believe in any kind of God whatsoever, but if they want to think he is, he will not stop them from calling him a god. He will think himself to be a type of God, not that he believes he is one, but if the whole world wants to think he is a god, he will not say otherwise to correct them.

His number 666 can easily be worked out from his many titles, one of which is ‘Vicarius Filii Dei’ meaning ‘in the place of God.’

In Roman/Latin numerals, V=5, I=1, C=100, A=0, R=0, I=1, U=5 (same as V), S=0. Total= 112

F=0, I=1, L=50, I=1. I=1. Total=53

D=500, E=0, I=1. Total=501. Grand Total= 112+53+501=666

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, He was God in the flesh.
But, will He return as God in the flesh?
No
I believe Satan will try to be like Him.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The son of perdition being the man of sin will not reflect the glorious body of Christ, but he can literally project it in the sky as to deceive all nations.