Christ Mythicism: Recommended Reading

[jasonc]

Mormonism ,you choose to .now I didn't

I choose my gender ,my dad or mother


Why would I choose a Jew whose lineage fled the purges of Russia?

 

[jasonc]

Restoration to what you lost ,in that we are cursed by birth to sin and it's our base nature .
your logic would mean God formed each of us to sin .he didn't but he allows the curse of sin to affect all

Not here you learned why I'm God and my precepts.

 

[jasonc]

Edward you case is weak .

Why on earth would a man who existed for eons ,choose to learn why God is just when he can see what man on earth does from heaven?

No one would choose to learn .angelic beings ,greater then us choose to fall and we're offered no chance .
Men being lower then them ,Adam choose to fall before the creation of man in earth ?


I see why Paul warned of this

 

[Edward]

Mormonism ,you choose to .now I didn't

I choose my gender ,my dad or mother


Why would I choose a Jew whose lineage fled the purges of Russia?

I don't know. Maybe it has a special prize at the end if you complete the assignments that you wanted?! How many credits are we getting for this class, if we live through it? Lol.

I believe you chose Brother. I'll bet you one heavenly dollar to be paid Heaven after we arrive.
But answer me this then, Does God give you a choice to go to Him or to reject Him? Yes/No

 

[jasonc]

I don't know. Maybe it has a special prize at the end if you complete the assignments that you wanted?! How many credits are we getting for this class, if we live through it? Lol.

I believe you chose Brother. I'll bet you one heavenly dollar to be paid Heaven after we arrive.
But answer me this then, Does God give you a choice to go to Him or to reject Him? Yes/No

Why would you choose to forget God ?

 

[jasonc]

I'm not going to entertain this.there are mysteries .

But I am overthinker.what is known we are to do . I refuse to make a doctrine on silence .

I could go into the Zohar on the creation of light or how the talmud calls marriage selfish .

Yet these things don't edify and are fables

 

[T. E. Smith]

It's very weird to me that when I try to share some of my experiences, to be called a liar or wrong by both Believers and unbelievers! (Wow!) I'm not even Paul. If Paul were alive today, you guys would go picket his house, huh?

LOL you called me a liar on another thread when I said I wasn't atheist just so I could have sex. Wow, what a great guy you sure are. You think you can slander anyone whenever you want and say all kinds of false stuff and that nobody should call you out for it. And you don't understand why you're called out. It's "very weird to" you.

No wonder you don't understand any of it. What you have said here is essentially, if I can not understand it carnally then I wont believe it.

And so you will never understand it. Because it doesn't work that way. It is writen, that the carnal mind is unable to understand or receive the things of God...because God is a spirit so is spiritually discerned. So you would have had to lay down your reason to be open to spiritual discernment just to be able to receive the truth.

Benjamin Franklin agrees. He said, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Of course, he rejected faith. And so do I.

 

[Edward]

Edward you case is weak .

Why on earth would a man who existed for eons ,choose to learn why God is just when he can see what man on earth does from heaven?

No one would choose to learn .angelic beings ,greater then us choose to fall and we're offered no chance .
Men being lower then them ,Adam choose to fall before the creation of man in earth ?


I see why Paul warned of this

I never said pre-existed for eons. Just pre-existed. Maybe we only a week old there? But if we were created in Heaven in Spirit by God, could be two ways?
We're old already and since we were born and raised in heaven then we have no knowledge of evil or good because what is good if there is no bad? And daddy was like, oh, you curious and want to know death and decay? To understand what makes good, good?

So God created a virtual reality video game teaching tool called earth. (Scientific American Magaizine June 2005)

Barrow, John D., and John K. Webb. “<em>INCONSTANT</Em> CONSTANTS.” Scientific American, vol. 292, no. 6, 2005, pp. 56–63. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/26061034. Accessed 2 Jun. 2022.

That article says that our reality is but a shadow of a larger reality that as yet we can not see. And this is what the Bible has been saying all along! The Kingdom of God is at hand, look to the unseen, and all that.
We live in the Matrix. For real.

I mean, doesn't your scripture say, we are seated in Heavenly places with Christ? Do you believe that?
I once read a scientific rticle that said they can't find where our consciousness resides in our body. And concluded with we are starting to suspect that everything we can see is an illusion and the only real tangible thing that we own are our thoughts....
Whoa.

Like a movie that we can sort of step into and it seems real but it's really just a VR game the Lord owns and uses as a teaching tool. How would you like to take the googles off and find out all the bad stuff that happened in your life never happened,but you had the experience as if it had happened? Wow, you learned a lot huh?!

He said it is beyond our comprehension and imagination. I imagined this much already lol. It makes so much sense. Convince me otherwise, lol.

 

[XRose]

The Christ Myth theory, which I hold to, states that no prophet named Jesus ever existed and that the man is fully mythical. This position is a minority one among scholars, and is not well understood. The following list of resources is a selection of the books considered most authoritative on the subject of Christ Mythicsm.

I've read them all, and have organized the authors in order based on who I've found most helpful and/or who is considered most authoritative. However, don't think that an author in spot 4 or 5 is not worth reading.

The point of this thread is not to spark debate or contention, and it is not to provide a Christ Myth apologetic. It is a resource list. Though I'd love to debate the topic - not here.

1. Richard C. Carrier
   • On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt. This is the most comprehensive and scholarly work on the subject. This was the first book I read on the subject, but looking back, I would not recommend reading it first. Though it is extremely well-researched and makes an excellent case, it is a dense and difficult read.
   • Jesus from Outer Space: What the Earliest Christians Really Believed about Christ. This is basically a general-audience version of On the Historicity of Jesus. An easy read and preserves everything important in his previous book.
   • Not the Impossible Faith. This is a direct rebuttal to J.P. Holding's book The Impossible Faith. Carrier debunks the intriguing apologetics idea that Christianity's craziness makes it true.
2. Robert M. Price
   • The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable is the Gospel Tradition? An excellent book that systematically discusses the gospels and shows that they are not at all reliable. The ultimate conclusion is that if there ever was a man named Jesus, all we have about him is complete fiction.
   • The Case Against The Case for Christ. In this remarkable rebuttal of Lee Strobel's apologetics book, Price refutes every argument Strobel makes, and in so doing wipes out the general apologetics arguments and promotes a Christ myth theory.
3. Earl Doherty
   • Jesus: Neither God Nor Man - The Case For A Mythical Jesus. Superbly written, logical, well-documented. Much more well written than Carrier's book, but not nearly as scholarly (though still appropriately researched). Definitely get the revised and expanded edition.
4. Thomas L. Brodie
   • Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus: A Memoir of a Discovery. Jesus did not exist as a historical individual but is rather a literary model taken from Elijah and Elisha. He develops a metaphorical, iconic view of Jesus. Takes a very different angle from the books of most atheist mythicists, and will probably appeal most to Christians out of all these books. He is not a dogmatic thinker.
5. Thomas L. Thompson
   • Is This Not the Carpenter?: The Question of the Historicity of the Figure of Jesus. A collection of chapters edited by Thomas Thompson and Thomas Verenna. A helpful resource, but not general-audience friendly.
   • The Messiah Myth: The Near Eastern Roots of Jesus and David. Compares Jesus and King David to show that Jesus is essentially a metaphor and combination of various Near Eastern themes. He also argues that King David had almost no historical backing at all (one bit of evidence confirms that he was real, but only supports a minimal view of his historicity).

T E Smith need banning immediately.
The central feature of Christianity is belief in the reality of Jesus - and as John himself said all who doubt it are anti-christs. 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Jesus pronounced a sentence of eternal death on all liars at Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
TESmith declares himself a rabid dog fit for nothing but destruction.

 

[Edward]

I'm not going to entertain this.there are mysteries .

But I am overthinker.what is known we are to do . I refuse to make a doctrine on silence .

I could go into the Zohar on the creation of light or how the talmud calls marriage selfish .

Yet these things don't edify and are fables

But you said you never existed until earth and scripture says that Jesus knew you even before then.

Explain that if you can.

 

[XRose]

Such as the fat, jolly, geezer with a red suit and white beard, who lives in the North Pole!

Niblo, like TESmith is a doomed pagan destined for destruction when Jesus returns and then the second death on Judgment Day.
As a self confesssed anti-christ they both need banning from this forum

 

[XRose]

LoL. Gentlemen, don't you think it's stretching it a little to say these comments fall within the purview of "Biblical Growth"?

By responding to TESmith and Niblo you are ignoring Psalm 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him.

 

[T. E. Smith]

T E Smith need banning immediately... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son... TESmith declares himself a rabid dog fit for nothing but destruction.

1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.
1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

Niblo, like TESmith

1.2: Always tag a member that you mention in any thread.; (@ plus name)
Niblo

By responding to TESmith and Niblo you are ignoring Psalm 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him.

Also, "answer a fool according to his folly", as you'd see if you kept reading.

 

[jasonc]

But you said you never existed until earth and scripture says that Jesus knew you even before then.

Explain that if you can.

I guess Jesus does exist in time and isn't mortal

But you said you never existed until earth and scripture says that Jesus knew you even before then.

Explain that if you can.

Jesus isn't subject time ,he choose and only God can. The ability to give up their nature .we aren't immortal .we Need God,God didn't need us to feel while or know what love is .

Do you think God is subject to his own creation of time ?

He has lungs ,breathes and forms.

Meaning when your parents had sex they didn't have any part of that ?

You take the Bible too literally .
Wooden like .

 

[Edward]

LOL you called me a liar on another thread when I said I wasn't atheist just so I could have sex. Wow, what a great guy you sure are. You think you can slander anyone whenever you want and say all kinds of false stuff and that nobody should call you out for it. And you don't understand why you're called out. It's "very weird to" you.

Benjamin Franklin agrees. He said, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Of course, he rejected faith. And so do I.

I never said I was a great guy. I've said I am nobody. So what? Just some servant of God who doesn't have all the answers but does have some of them, and I'm at least somewhat wise. So...let's go post me opinion and me experience today. Why not?

And junior here doesn't like it. Well I aint asked anything from you. Unless you have paid into my personal Jumbo Jet yourself you have no foot to stand on in saying that I lie about anything. I have no motive to lie. What would it gain me to lie about anything? So I am not lying. I have not lied to you about anything. I wont, no need to. You have nothing I want. So go away, lol.

Dang it, he's stumbled onto my evil Master Plan. To make up fables about the Christian and Yeshua as our God, just to annoy the young little atheist dudes. I'm exposed so what can I do?

hehehehe.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I'm at least somewhat wise.

"Thinking themselves wise, they became fools."

let's go post me opinion and me experience today. Why not?

Go right ahead, but don't be surprised or offended when your posts are said to be false.

Unless you have paid into my personal Jumbo Jet yourself you have no foot to stand on in saying that I lie about anything.

???

 

[jasonc]

I never said pre-existed for eons. Just pre-existed. Maybe we only a week old there? But if we were created in Heaven in Spirit by God, could be two ways?
We're old already and since we were born and raised in heaven then we have no knowledge of evil or good because what is good if there is no bad? And daddy was like, oh, you curious and want to know death and decay? To understand what makes good, good?

So God created a virtual reality video game teaching tool called earth. (Scientific American Magaizine June 2005)

Barrow, John D., and John K. Webb. “<em>INCONSTANT</Em> CONSTANTS.” Scientific American, vol. 292, no. 6, 2005, pp. 56–63. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/26061034. Accessed 2 Jun. 2022.

That article says that our reality is but a shadow of a larger reality that as yet we can not see. And this is what the Bible has been saying all along! The Kingdom of God is at hand, look to the unseen, and all that.
We live in the Matrix. For real.

I mean, doesn't your scripture say, we are seated in Heavenly places with Christ? Do you believe that?
I once read a scientific rticle that said they can't find where our consciousness resides in our body. And concluded with we are starting to suspect that everything we can see is an illusion and the only real tangible thing that we own are our thoughts....
Whoa.

Like a movie that we can sort of step into and it seems real but it's really just a VR game the Lord owns and uses as a teaching tool. How would you like to take the googles off and find out all the bad stuff that happened in your life never happened,but you had the experience as if it had happened? Wow, you learned a lot huh?!

He said it is beyond our comprehension and imagination. I imagined this much already lol. It makes so much sense. Convince me otherwise, lol.

And on the seventh day God rested from creation

Meaning if you existed before your birth in heaven. He had to make you as your personality would be nothing like your parents,good or bad .

I'm out .

Heresies

The mormons teach much of what you say and I bet you are getting it from them


You can't ignore where this is going .
You have said we are Gods before

.

 

[jasonc]

And on the seventh day God rested from creation

Meaning if you existed before your birth in heaven. He had to make you as your personality would be nothing like your parents,good or bad .

I'm out .

Heresies

The mormons teach much of what you say and I bet you are getting it from them


You can't ignore where this is going .
You have said we are Gods before

.

He did say that, didn't He?! Maybe we are gods? We were created in His image, in His likeness...and are His body...and who knows? If we were to be able to walk with God close enough to take on His character and heart...maybe we could do some godly things? It's hard to overcome the flesh though.

Mormonism is very much that way .

 

[Edward]

I guess Jesus does exist in time and isn't mortal
Jesus isn't subject time ,he choose and only God can. The ability to give up their nature .we aren't immortal .we Need God,God didn't need us to feel while or know what love is .

Do you think God is subject to his own creation of time ?

He has lungs ,breathes and forms.

Meaning when your parents had sex they didn't have any part of that ?

You take the Bible too literally .
Wooden like .

What?! Do you think your kids belong to you? Can you not recognize that they are on loan to you from God so that you can learn how it is to be a parent? He's trusting you to babysit His Children during your time on earth, so be nice! Lol.

It may sound far fetched. Truth is stranger than fiction. Jesus is not subject to time, He is outside the realm of time. SO it's not only is He everywhere at once, but He is everywhere at every moment.
And there's jason, created in His image, wondering how can I be seated in Heaven with Jesus right now if I am on earth?

But it is true. Or do you not believe the scriptures? It's Ephesians 2:6

 

[jasonc]

What?! Do you think your kids belong to you? Can you not recognize that they are on loan to you from God so that you can learn how it is to be a parent? He's trusting you to babysit His Children during your time on earth, so be nice! Lol.

It may sound far fetched. Truth is stranger than fiction. Jesus is not subject to time, He is outside the realm of time. SO it's not only is He everywhere at once, but He is everywhere at every moment.
And there's jason, created in His image, wondering how can I be seated in Heaven with Jesus right now if I am on earth?

But it is true. Or do you not believe the scriptures? It's Ephesians 2:6

Jesus isn't bound by time .
We are .


Yet you say that Jesus didn't know us in past tense .quoted verse is to one was born already .

We don't say I know you before were born .

It's bad English .God knows us ,saw it all before it happens .