Christian, why do you believe you'll go to Heaven?

[Grappler]

Like I told George it amazes me the people who don't understand allegorisms and metaphors.

No we just dont accept that you decide what is "allegorism" especially when one believes such nonsense as that Christians will not be with Christ.

So did Paul write Ephesians in heaven? Did Lazarus have a conversation with a man burning in hell while sitting on Abraham's lap?

 

[Grappler]

No smaller I am not literally a sheep nor are you...but hey dude if you want to pretend like you are a sheep then go ahead and baaa all you like. Like I told George it amazes me the people who don't understand allegorisms and metaphors.

I never said you were a 'literal sheep.' I said the allegories are REAL, not fantasy stories.

Did Pharisees have real WOLVES inside of them? Uh no. They did however have 'wolves' in them.

Believers are 'allegorized' as sheep.

Does this make us 'real' sheep? No. We are however 'real believers' and stated as such in terms of 'sheep' and 'wheat' and other allegorical connections.

Is this a difficult concept for you?

A parable of sheep is a parable of 'real believing people' and not some fantasy story.

Jesus is A Shephard of sheep. Does that mean He tends sheep?

Uh, no. He tends our souls. Does that mean we have no real Shepherd? Uh, no. He is a real Shepherd tending allegorical sheep, those being US.

These matters of 'reality' are conveyed allegorically because they concern unseen matters of spiritual nature, but those matters are REAL nevertheless.

Baa on that for awhile and get back to me.

s

You really don't understand parables do you? So did Lazarus literally have a conversation with a man burning in Hell while he sat on Abraham's lap? or maybe jus maybe this was all a fictional story to teach a spiritual truth? And remember as you are deciding this....rationality and logic should be applied.

 

[Guest]

 

[George Muller]

Not with my eyes but I did "see" the light of truth and felt his prescence but I have always felt his prescence.

What do you mean "His prescence" do you mean God can be with you in spirit, and that He can yet be in Heaven upon the throne of His Glory?
You mean spiritual truth, such as being saved is not the same as physical truth that one can see? That the things that are not seen are eternal, and the things which are seen are temporal?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power

aints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I think you are missing a large part of the gospel and what the term "in Him" or "in Christ" means.

These things are "eternal" truth. They are facts that cannot be changed nor seen by man.

1Co 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Sorry if you cannot believe the truth, but it will remain the truth.

 

[George Muller]

No smaller I am not literally a sheep nor are you...but hey dude if you want to pretend like you are a sheep then go ahead and baaa all you like. Like I told George it amazes me the people who don't understand allegorisms and metaphors.

I never said you were a 'literal sheep.' I said the allegories are REAL, not fantasy stories.

Did Pharisees have real WOLVES inside of them? Uh no. They did however have 'wolves' in them.

Believers are 'allegorized' as sheep.

Does this make us 'real' sheep? No. We are however 'real believers' and stated as such in terms of 'sheep' and 'wheat' and other allegorical connections.

Is this a difficult concept for you?

A parable of sheep is a parable of 'real believing people' and not some fantasy story.

Jesus is A Shephard of sheep. Does that mean He tends sheep?

Uh, no. He tends our souls. Does that mean we have no real Shepherd? Uh, no. He is a real Shepherd tending allegorical sheep, those being US.

These matters of 'reality' are conveyed allegorically because they concern unseen matters of spiritual nature, but those matters are REAL nevertheless.

Baa on that for awhile and get back to me.

s

You really don't understand parables do you? So did Lazarus literally have a conversation with a man burning in Hell while he sat on Abraham's lap? or maybe jus maybe this was all a fictional story to teach a spiritual truth? And remember as you are deciding this....rationality and logic should be applied.

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I think you might want to reconsider what you have been taught?

 

[Grappler]

Not with my eyes but I did "see" the light of truth and felt his prescence but I have always felt his prescence.

What do you mean "His prescence" do you mean God can be with you in spirit, and that He can yet be in Heaven upon the throne of His Glory?
You mean spiritual truth, such as being saved is not the same as physical truth that one can see? That the things that are not seen are eternal, and the things which are seen are temporal?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power

aints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I think you are missing a large part of the gospel and what the term "in Him" or "in Christ" means.

These things are "eternal" truth. They are facts that cannot be changed nor seen by man.

1Co 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Sorry if you cannot believe the truth, but it will remain the truth.

Getting off the topic a little aren't we George? totopic Oh, by the way was Paul sitting in heaven as he wrote Ephesians? I mean if you take absolutely everything literal and out of context in scripture then he must have been....was he George?

 

[Grappler]

No smaller I am not literally a sheep nor are you...but hey dude if you want to pretend like you are a sheep then go ahead and baaa all you like. Like I told George it amazes me the people who don't understand allegorisms and metaphors.

I never said you were a 'literal sheep.' I said the allegories are REAL, not fantasy stories.

Did Pharisees have real WOLVES inside of them? Uh no. They did however have 'wolves' in them.

Believers are 'allegorized' as sheep.

Does this make us 'real' sheep? No. We are however 'real believers' and stated as such in terms of 'sheep' and 'wheat' and other allegorical connections.

Is this a difficult concept for you?

A parable of sheep is a parable of 'real believing people' and not some fantasy story.

Jesus is A Shephard of sheep. Does that mean He tends sheep?

Uh, no. He tends our souls. Does that mean we have no real Shepherd? Uh, no. He is a real Shepherd tending allegorical sheep, those being US.

These matters of 'reality' are conveyed allegorically because they concern unseen matters of spiritual nature, but those matters are REAL nevertheless.

Baa on that for awhile and get back to me.

s

You really don't understand parables do you? So did Lazarus literally have a conversation with a man burning in Hell while he sat on Abraham's lap? or maybe jus maybe this was all a fictional story to teach a spiritual truth? And remember as you are deciding this....rationality and logic should be applied.

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I think you might want to reconsider what you have been taught?

Are you smaller?? This post was for smaller. Getting a little excited there aren't we George? I can see that you took rationality and logic and threw it out the window didn't you?

 

[Eugene]

This thread is very close to being closed. Please discontinue personal attacks and address the topic. Good natured banter in a discussion can be good, but sarcasm is not a godly spiritual gift I'm aware of. Thanks.

 

[smaller]

You really don't understand parables do you? So did Lazarus literally have a conversation with a man burning in Hell while he sat on Abraham's lap?

There are rules from the text to be applied to parables.

In the account Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham are all 'real' entities. I don't see 'hell' anywhere in the account fwiw.

or maybe jus maybe this was all a fictional story to teach a spiritual truth? And remember as you are deciding this....rationality and logic should be applied.

I agree with the 'logic' text provides for the dissection of parables, yes. Very much so. They are all remarkably consistent in both construct and design.

s

 

[George Muller]

Not with my eyes but I did "see" the light of truth and felt his prescence but I have always felt his prescence.

What do you mean "His prescence" do you mean God can be with you in spirit, and that He can yet be in Heaven upon the throne of His Glory?
You mean spiritual truth, such as being saved is not the same as physical truth that one can see? That the things that are not seen are eternal, and the things which are seen are temporal?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power

aints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I think you are missing a large part of the gospel and what the term "in Him" or "in Christ" means.

These things are "eternal" truth. They are facts that cannot be changed nor seen by man.

1Co 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Sorry if you cannot believe the truth, but it will remain the truth.

Getting off the topic a little aren't we George? totopic Oh, by the way was Paul sitting in heaven as he wrote Ephesians? I mean if you take absolutely everything literal and out of context in scripture then he must have been....was he George?

Well If Gods Words says it then it is true. You say you have Gods prescence with you? Am I to take that literal? Is God with you?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There seems to be some things in the scriptures that do not make sense to the natural mind of man?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Grappler]

You really don't understand parables do you? So did Lazarus literally have a conversation with a man burning in Hell while he sat on Abraham's lap?

There are rules from the text to be applied to parables.

In the account Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham are all 'real' entities. I don't see 'hell' anywhere in the account fwiw.

or maybe jus maybe this was all a fictional story to teach a spiritual truth? And remember as you are deciding this....rationality and logic should be applied.

I agree with the 'logic' text provides for the dissection of parables, yes. Very much so. They are all remarkably consistent in both construct and design.

s

Small....please....hell is not a real place either....i just used the word 'hell' because that is what we typically call a place where the dead are burning...don't be so nitpicky. My point is that the story is a fictional account that Jesus used to convey a spiritual lesson. Jesus did not use this parable to describe the condition of the afterlife...why is that so hard to accept??

 

[Grappler]

Not with my eyes but I did "see" the light of truth and felt his prescence but I have always felt his prescence.

What do you mean "His prescence" do you mean God can be with you in spirit, and that He can yet be in Heaven upon the throne of His Glory?
You mean spiritual truth, such as being saved is not the same as physical truth that one can see? That the things that are not seen are eternal, and the things which are seen are temporal?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power

aints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I think you are missing a large part of the gospel and what the term "in Him" or "in Christ" means.

These things are "eternal" truth. They are facts that cannot be changed nor seen by man.

1Co 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Sorry if you cannot believe the truth, but it will remain the truth.

Getting off the topic a little aren't we George? totopic Oh, by the way was Paul sitting in heaven as he wrote Ephesians? I mean if you take absolutely everything literal and out of context in scripture then he must have been....was he George?

Well If Gods Words says it then it is true. You say you have Gods prescence with you? Am I to take that literal? Is God with you?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There seems to be some things in the scriptures that do not make sense to the natural mind of man?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Oh i agree...God's word is true. So whats up?? How you take my relationship with my heavenly Father means literally nothing to me.

 

[BibleDroid]

This is a great subject - eating popcorn while reading it

 

[smaller]

Small....please....hell is not a real place either....

sez who and on what basis is that determination made?

i just used the word 'hell' because that is what we typically call a place where the dead are burning...don't be so nitpicky.

If you are speaking of gehenna that is 'one' term in the text sometimes called hell. Most often it's the grave. Hell itself is not used in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

My point is that the story is a fictional account that Jesus used to convey a spiritual lesson. Jesus did not use this parable to describe the condition of the afterlife...why is that so hard to accept??

Your imagination merely turns parables used to convey spiritual realities into 'things persons or places that are not real.'

How far do you want to go to school on this to see that the deployments of parables engage real entities and not merely fictional stories about people or entities who don't/didn't exist?

I know where you're going to land before we even start but hey, it's entertainment. You won't find me sentencing you to hell for a difference in sights...;)

s

 

[George Muller]

Getting off the topic a little aren't we George? totopic Oh, by the way was Paul sitting in heaven as he wrote Ephesians? I mean if you take absolutely everything literal and out of context in scripture then he must have been....was he George?

Well If Gods Words says it then it is true. You say you have Gods prescence with you? Am I to take that literal? Is God with you?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There seems to be some things in the scriptures that do not make sense to the natural mind of man?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Oh i agree...God's word is true. So whats up?? How you take my relationship with my heavenly Father means literally nothing to me.

You mean God is with you? Can you see Him? Do you open the car door for Him to ride with you? How Can God be with you and be in heaven at the same time? That does not make any sense to my natural mind

 

[Grappler]

Small....please....hell is not a real place either....

sez who and on what basis is that determination made?

i just used the word 'hell' because that is what we typically call a place where the dead are burning...don't be so nitpicky.

If you are speaking of gehenna that is 'one' term in the text sometimes called hell. Most often it's the grave. Hell itself is not used in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

My point is that the story is a fictional account that Jesus used to convey a spiritual lesson. Jesus did not use this parable to describe the condition of the afterlife...why is that so hard to accept??

Your imagination merely turns parables used to convey spiritual realities into 'things persons or places that are not real.'

How far do you want to go to school on this to see that the deployments of parables engage real entities and not merely fictional stories about people or entities who don't/didn't exist?

I know where you're going to land before we even start but hey, it's entertainment. You won't find me sentencing you to hell for a difference in sights...;)

s

I guess a better way to put it is no human is in hell yet....hows that? Exactly. The parable is not about hell at all. Talk about imagination. Your imagination makes Lazarus sitting on Abraham's lap talking to a man being tormented in flame as a literal real event.

 

[Grappler]

Getting off the topic a little aren't we George? totopic Oh, by the way was Paul sitting in heaven as he wrote Ephesians? I mean if you take absolutely everything literal and out of context in scripture then he must have been....was he George?

Well If Gods Words says it then it is true. You say you have Gods prescence with you? Am I to take that literal? Is God with you?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

There seems to be some things in the scriptures that do not make sense to the natural mind of man?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Oh i agree...God's word is true. So whats up?? How you take my relationship with my heavenly Father means literally nothing to me.

You mean God is with you? Can you see Him? Do you open the car door for Him to ride with you? How Can God be with you and be in heaven at the same time? That does not make any sense to my natural mind

Are you questioning my Christianity? That is a no no on this site George believe me I know...better be careful. You know it is strange....He just gets in and buckles up without my help at all...I wouldn't expect you to understand that relationship. God is able to be in the 3rd heaven and with us on Earth George. Wow...I thought that not being able to understand hyperboles and allegories and how they are used in basic language and writing was your problem but it appears from the questions that you are asking me you have bigger problems than hyperboles and allegories.

 

[smaller]

I guess a better way to put it is no human is in hell yet....hows that? Exactly.

That's perhaps a better way to put it for purposes that are allowed to be discussed here.

The parable is not about hell at all.

I agree.

Talk about imagination. Your imagination makes Lazarus sitting on Abraham's lap talking to a man being tormented in flame as a literal real event.

Oh, I believe the account is quite real.

I don't recall getting too far into any dissection with you as of yet so don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

I'll agree with you that the account is not about hell and that's as far as we've gotten so far.

For any dissection of parables I always refer to the basic components shown for the dissection of 'all parables' that Jesus provided in Mark 4:15. So if you'd like to refer to that text segment as a first step it's a good place to identify the critical parties to all parables.

s

 

[Grappler]

I guess a better way to put it is no human is in hell yet....hows that? Exactly.

That's perhaps a better way to put it for purposes that are allowed to be discussed here.

The parable is not about hell at all.

I agree.

Talk about imagination. Your imagination makes Lazarus sitting on Abraham's lap talking to a man being tormented in flame as a literal real event.

Oh, I believe the account is quite real.

I don't recall getting too far into any dissection with you as of yet so don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

I'll agree with you that the account is not about hell and that's as far as we've gotten so far.

For any dissection of parables I always refer to the basic components shown for the dissection of 'all parables' that Jesus provided in Mark 4:15. So if you'd like to refer to that text segment as a first step it's a good place to identify the critical parties to all parables.

s

Actually you began this discussion with me. So now what? You believe that Lazarus was sitting on Abraham's lap chit-chatting away with a dead man burning in torment and I do not. So I guess we agree to disagree and go on our way don't we? What else would you like to discuss?

 

[George Muller]

Oh i agree...God's word is true. So whats up?? How you take my relationship with my heavenly Father means literally nothing to me.

You mean God is with you? Can you see Him? Do you open the car door for Him to ride with you? How Can God be with you and be in heaven at the same time? That does not make any sense to my natural mind

Are you questioning my Christianity? That is a no no on this site George believe me I know...better be careful. You know it is strange....He just gets in and buckles up without my help at all...I wouldn't expect you to understand that relationship. God is able to be in the 3rd heaven and with us on Earth George. Wow...I thought that not being able to understand hyperboles and allegories and how they are used in basic language and writing was your problem but it appears from the questions that you are asking me you have bigger problems than hyperboles and allegories.

So you claim God is with you even though you cannot see Him? But the Apostle Paul is just making jokes, because these things cannot be seen by you?
Let me post these scriptures and then you can point out at what point it gets too hard for you to believe? Then you can explain when Paul starts joking so others can understand your biblical logic.

Eph 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) -Can you believe it this far?
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: - Then Paul tells a big joke
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.- How about now, is he still joking?
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now explain how Paul tells a big one, right in the middle of these passages? Now please be clear, so all can gain from your great biblical wisdom.