Christian, why do you believe you'll go to Heaven?

[George Muller]

every believer that has ever lived and died is in Heaven. When Jesus ascended, He gathered the Saints from paradise and took them to heaven.

What evidence from scriptures backs this claim? In Acts 1 we only see Jesus ascending, NO ONE else is with Him. He said Himself that he would RETURN to gather the elect unto himself (Mark 13:26-27).

Paul is dealing with church age believers in this verse and we are in the Church age. the 1000 years and eternity it is like this: Church age believers= heaven Israel = new earth How He arranges and places people in these matters is beyond me and my studies. But most assuredly the Church age, the people Paul is addressing in this verse is me and you and all in the Church age.

Where does the scriptures speak of this mystical "church age?" I contend that the people Paul was addressing was his contemporaries that like him were 1st century saints that were expecting the soon return of the Christ in their generation to ransom them (Hebrews 10:25).

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Butch5]

How do these verses apply? I can read it a couple different ways. Is Christ saying the risen will be like the angels (which are) in heaven or is he saying the risen will be in heaven like the angels?

From Mark 12, KJV

23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

The angels are in Heaven not the resurrected.

 

[Butch5]

George, this has been addressed. The word places is "NOT" in the Greek texts, it was added by the translators. Heavenly is an adjective, it's being used as a substantive, is in the neuter gender and has the definite article. The neuter gender indicates things, not places. It should read 'made us to sit together in the heavenly things.'

Well you just replaced "things" for "places" and tried to explain away the word; "heaven" which is not a adjective but a noun.
epouraniov epouranios, ep-oo-ran'-ee-os
from 1909 and 3772; above the sky:--celestial, (in) heaven(-ly), high
the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity):--air, heaven(-ly), sky

The word "together" was used three times in Eph 2:5-6. It is describing our union with Christ in being "quickened" (Eph 2:5), "raised" (this verse), and seated "in heavenly places" (this verse). None of these things are possible on our own. It is only through our union with Christ that any of this is attainable. Our victory in the Christian life is dependent on our dependency on Christ and not on ourselves. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to live for Christ. Instead, we need to recognize our weaknesses and let Him live through us.
"Made us sit" (this verse), "raised" (Eph 1:20 and this verse), and "quickened" (Eph 2:1 and 5) are all in the aorist tense. This indicates something that God has already accomplished in Christ, not something that is off in the future.

I'm sorry George but you're incorrect. "Heavenly" is an adjective not a noun, that why it has an "ly" on the end. Here are the morphological codes.

ἐπουράνιος adjective normal dative neuter plural no degree from ἐπουράνιος

Notice it is an adjective in the neuter gender. It's being used as a substantive and in the neuter gender means things, not places.

How can it be a adjective? what does it descibe? a word that does not exist? And what is the definition of a noun? Person, place or thing?
So you ignore the word because the translators translated it in the position of a adjective. No, sorry it does not work that way. If you call it a adjective, then explain what is is descibing? Besides all that the scripture says "we are raised with Him" and seated with Him. Now you know very well where the scriptures declare He is seated. IN HEAVEN.


ADJECTIVE OR NOUN? it does not matter, here is its clear intention;

1. existing in heaven
2. things that take place in heaven
3. the heavenly regions
   1. heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
   2. the lower heavens, of the stars
   3. the heavens, of the clouds
4. the heavenly temple or sanctuary
5. of heavenly origin or nature

George,

You're rejecting the Greek text and grammar. I showed you what the Greek text says. The adjective being translated "Heavenly" is being used as a substantive. A substantive is an Adjective that stands in the place of a noun. The adjective Heavenly needs a noun to modify, however, Paul didn't supply one thus, he used the adjective as a noun, a substantive. Now, the adjective is in the neuter gender therefore any noun that it would modify needs to be in the neuter gender also. Since it is a substantive and in the neuter gender, it means things, Heavenly things, not places.

Here is a link where you can read about the Adjectival Substantive.

Substantival Use of Greek Adjectives


The adjective can also be used alone (with or without the article) as a noun (

 

[Eugene]

The angels are in Heaven not the resurrected.

No hope for me? How did Jesus' angel get to heaven? Were Elias and Moses that appeared on the mount with Jesus counted as the resurrected? Is there the possibility them of Matthew 27:52 had to die again or were resurrected? Thanks.

 

[George Muller]

Ever hear of a hyperbole? Paul is speaking hyperbolically when he said that we are sitting together in heaven with Jesus. How do I know that? From rightly dividing the word.

What? So if you run into a scripture that goes against your doctrine, just call it "hyperbole" Was it "hyperbole'' when Christ died for our sins and was raised?
What else do you call "hyperbole" Gods love? Gods grace? Gods justice? Gods power?

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No this is biblical fact!

 

[Butch5]

The angels are in Heaven not the resurrected.

No hope for me? How did Jesus' angel get to heaven? Were Elias and Moses that appeared on the mount with Jesus counted as the resurrected? Is there the possibility them of Matthew 27:52 had to die again or were resurrected? Thanks.

At the transfiguration the apostles saw a vision. They were seeing a vision of Christ's future coming. Jesus stated this just prior to the event. He said, some standing here will not see death before they see the kingdom coming with power. Those in Mat 27 did die again as did Lazarus.

 

[George Muller]

I'm sorry George but you're incorrect. "Heavenly" is an adjective not a noun, that why it has an "ly" on the end. Here are the morphological codes.

ἐπουράνιος adjective normal dative neuter plural no degree from ἐπουράνιος

Notice it is an adjective in the neuter gender. It's being used as a substantive and in the neuter gender means things, not places.

How can it be a adjective? what does it descibe? a word that does not exist? And what is the definition of a noun? Person, place or thing?
So you ignore the word because the translators translated it in the position of a adjective. No, sorry it does not work that way. If you call it a adjective, then explain what is is descibing? Besides all that the scripture says "we are raised with Him" and seated with Him. Now you know very well where the scriptures declare He is seated. IN HEAVEN.


ADJECTIVE OR NOUN? it does not matter, here is its clear intention;

1. existing in heaven
2. things that take place in heaven
3. the heavenly regions
   1. heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
   2. the lower heavens, of the stars
   3. the heavens, of the clouds
4. the heavenly temple or sanctuary
5. of heavenly origin or nature

George,

You're rejecting the Greek text and grammar. I showed you what the Greek text says. The adjective being translated "Heavenly" is being used as a substantive. A substantive is an Adjective that stands in the place of a noun. The adjective Heavenly needs a noun to modify, however, Paul didn't supply one thus, he used the adjective as a noun, a substantive. Now, the adjective is in the neuter gender therefore any noun that it would modify needs to be in the neuter gender also. Since it is a substantive and in the neuter gender, it means things, Heavenly things, not places.

Here is a link where you can read about the Adjectival Substantive.

Substantival Use of Greek Adjectives


The adjective can also be used alone (with or without the article) as a noun (

Well it is clear that no Greek scholar agrees with your conclusion, and the word is describing "heaven" no matter if you make it a adjective or what gender or anything else. Even the context says aorist tense that we are raised up together and "seated with Him" in the heavens. I find no greek scholar that would come to your conclusion? I find that many attempt to use the Greek as a way to explain away the truth.

Eph 2:6 (KJV) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (ASV) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly [places], in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (BBE) So that we came back from death with him, and are seated with him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (DBY) and has raised [us] up together, and has made [us] sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MKJV) and has raised [us] up together and made [us] sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MNT) together with him He raised us from the dead, and together with Christ Jesus seated us in the heavenly realm,
Eph 2:6 (NKJV) and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (Oracl) and has raised us up together, and has set us down together in heavenly places with Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (RSV) and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (TCNT) And, through our union with Christ Jesus, God raised us with him, and caused us to sit with him on high,
Eph 2:6 (WEB) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (WNT) raised us with Him from the dead, and enthroned us with Him in the heavenly realms as being in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (YLT) and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,

 

[Eugene]

At the transfiguration the apostles saw a vision. They were seeing a vision of Christ's future coming. Jesus stated this just prior to the event. He said, some standing here will not see death before they see the kingdom coming with power. Those in Mat 27 did die again as did Lazarus.

What of Jesus' angel?

 

[Butch5]

At the transfiguration the apostles saw a vision. They were seeing a vision of Christ's future coming. Jesus stated this just prior to the event. He said, some standing here will not see death before they see the kingdom coming with power. Those in Mat 27 did die again as did Lazarus.

What of Jesus' angel?

Jesus' angel?

 

[Butch5]

I'm sorry George but you're incorrect. "Heavenly" is an adjective not a noun, that why it has an "ly" on the end. Here are the morphological codes.

ἐπουράνιος adjective normal dative neuter plural no degree from ἐπουράνιος

Notice it is an adjective in the neuter gender. It's being used as a substantive and in the neuter gender means things, not places.

How can it be a adjective? what does it descibe? a word that does not exist? And what is the definition of a noun? Person, place or thing?
So you ignore the word because the translators translated it in the position of a adjective. No, sorry it does not work that way. If you call it a adjective, then explain what is is descibing? Besides all that the scripture says "we are raised with Him" and seated with Him. Now you know very well where the scriptures declare He is seated. IN HEAVEN.



ADJECTIVE OR NOUN? it does not matter, here is its clear intention;

1. existing in heaven
2. things that take place in heaven
3. the heavenly regions
   1. heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
   2. the lower heavens, of the stars
   3. the heavens, of the clouds
4. the heavenly temple or sanctuary
5. of heavenly origin or nature

George,

You're rejecting the Greek text and grammar. I showed you what the Greek text says. The adjective being translated "Heavenly" is being used as a substantive. A substantive is an Adjective that stands in the place of a noun. The adjective Heavenly needs a noun to modify, however, Paul didn't supply one thus, he used the adjective as a noun, a substantive. Now, the adjective is in the neuter gender therefore any noun that it would modify needs to be in the neuter gender also. Since it is a substantive and in the neuter gender, it means things, Heavenly things, not places.

Here is a link where you can read about the Adjectival Substantive.

Substantival Use of Greek Adjectives


The adjective can also be used alone (with or without the article) as a noun (

Well it is clear that no Greek scholar agrees with your conclusion, and the word is describing "heaven" no matter if you make it a adjective or what gender or anything else. Even the context says aorist tense that we are raised up together and "seated with Him" in the heavens. I find no greek scholar that would come to your conclusion? I find that many attempt to use the Greek as a way to explain away the truth.

Eph 2:6 (KJV) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (ASV) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly [places], in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (BBE) So that we came back from death with him, and are seated with him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (DBY) and has raised [us] up together, and has made [us] sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MKJV) and has raised [us] up together and made [us] sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MNT) together with him He raised us from the dead, and together with Christ Jesus seated us in the heavenly realm,
Eph 2:6 (NKJV) and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (Oracl) and has raised us up together, and has set us down together in heavenly places with Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (RSV) and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (TCNT) And, through our union with Christ Jesus, God raised us with him, and caused us to sit with him on high,
Eph 2:6 (WEB) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (WNT) raised us with Him from the dead, and enthroned us with Him in the heavenly realms as being in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (YLT) and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,

George,

I'm not sure what part of this is the problem. Translators simply translate the text the way they understand it. If one believes he goes to Heaven then that's the way he translates it. No matter what you post the word "places" simply is not in the Greek text and Heavenly is "NOT" an noun, it's an adjective. Find someone who knows Greek and ask them if what I said is correct.

 

[Eugene]

What of Jesus' angel?

Jesus' angel?

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Butch5]

I'm sorry George but you're incorrect. "Heavenly" is an adjective not a noun, that why it has an "ly" on the end. Here are the morphological codes.

ἐπουράνιος adjective normal dative neuter plural no degree from ἐπουράνιος

Notice it is an adjective in the neuter gender. It's being used as a substantive and in the neuter gender means things, not places.

How can it be a adjective? what does it descibe? a word that does not exist? And what is the definition of a noun? Person, place or thing?
So you ignore the word because the translators translated it in the position of a adjective. No, sorry it does not work that way. If you call it a adjective, then explain what is is descibing? Besides all that the scripture says "we are raised with Him" and seated with Him. Now you know very well where the scriptures declare He is seated. IN HEAVEN.


ADJECTIVE OR NOUN? it does not matter, here is its clear intention;

1. existing in heaven
2. things that take place in heaven
3. the heavenly regions
   1. heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
   2. the lower heavens, of the stars
   3. the heavens, of the clouds
4. the heavenly temple or sanctuary
5. of heavenly origin or nature

George,

You're rejecting the Greek text and grammar. I showed you what the Greek text says. The adjective being translated "Heavenly" is being used as a substantive. A substantive is an Adjective that stands in the place of a noun. The adjective Heavenly needs a noun to modify, however, Paul didn't supply one thus, he used the adjective as a noun, a substantive. Now, the adjective is in the neuter gender therefore any noun that it would modify needs to be in the neuter gender also. Since it is a substantive and in the neuter gender, it means things, Heavenly things, not places.

Here is a link where you can read about the Adjectival Substantive.

Substantival Use of Greek Adjectives


The adjective can also be used alone (with or without the article) as a noun (

Well it is clear that no Greek scholar agrees with your conclusion, and the word is describing "heaven" no matter if you make it a adjective or what gender or anything else. Even the context says aorist tense that we are raised up together and "seated with Him" in the heavens. I find no greek scholar that would come to your conclusion? I find that many attempt to use the Greek as a way to explain away the truth.

Eph 2:6 (KJV) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (ASV) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly [places], in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (BBE) So that we came back from death with him, and are seated with him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (DBY) and has raised [us] up together, and has made [us] sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MKJV) and has raised [us] up together and made [us] sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MNT) together with him He raised us from the dead, and together with Christ Jesus seated us in the heavenly realm,
Eph 2:6 (NKJV) and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (Oracl) and has raised us up together, and has set us down together in heavenly places with Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (RSV) and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (TCNT) And, through our union with Christ Jesus, God raised us with him, and caused us to sit with him on high,
Eph 2:6 (WEB) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (WNT) raised us with Him from the dead, and enthroned us with Him in the heavenly realms as being in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (YLT) and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,

George,

Where are you right now, In Heaven or on earth?

 

[Butch5]

What of Jesus' angel?

Jesus' angel?

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Angelos (angel) means messenger. Jesus was the messenger that brought the message to John.

 

[Grappler]

Ever hear of a hyperbole? Paul is speaking hyperbolically when he said that we are sitting together in heaven with Jesus. How do I know that? From rightly dividing the word.

What? So if you run into a scripture that goes against your doctrine, just call it "hyperbole" Was it "hyperbole'' when Christ died for our sins and was raised?
What else do you call "hyperbole" Gods love? Gods grace? Gods justice? Gods power?

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No this is biblical fact!

So it appears that you don't know what a hyperbole is. So it is a biblical fact that as Paul wrote Ephesians he was sitting in heaven??? Wow. So let me get this straight. Paul wrote Ephesians from heaven and Lazarus had a conversation with a man burning in hell while he sat on Abraham's lap???

 

[Larry H]

Where did God say people go to Heaven when they die? Where is this clear text?

Romans 6:5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

Philippians 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Neither of these passages even mention Heaven.

I asked if Jesus or the Apostles ever mention a paradise earth where mankind will live forever. I’m waiting for your answer J

“The Bible never uses the terms "resurrected body," "resurrection of the body," or "physical resurrection”

Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great isyour reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

2 Corinthians 5:2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling,

Heaven NT:3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'); heaven as the abode of God specifically, the Gospel(Christianity): New Exhaustive Strong's

heav·en

/ˈhɛv

ən/ Show Spelled [hev-uh

n] Show IPA noun

the abode of God, the angels, and the spirits of the righteous after death; the place or state of existence of the blessed after the mortal life


Webster Dictionary

heav·en

noun \ˈhe-vən\
Definition of HEAVEN

The dwelling place of the Deity and the blessed dead

 

[George Muller]

Ever hear of a hyperbole? Paul is speaking hyperbolically when he said that we are sitting together in heaven with Jesus. How do I know that? From rightly dividing the word.

What? So if you run into a scripture that goes against your doctrine, just call it "hyperbole" Was it "hyperbole'' when Christ died for our sins and was raised?
What else do you call "hyperbole" Gods love? Gods grace? Gods justice? Gods power?

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No this is biblical fact!

So it appears that you don't know what a hyperbole is. So it is a biblical fact that as Paul wrote Ephesians he was sitting in heaven??? Wow. So let me get this straight. Paul wrote Ephesians from heaven and Lazarus had a conversation with a man burning in hell while he sat on Abraham's lap???

Well Im glad the scriptures seem to be a joke to you? Do you understand what the word "mystery" means?
and many things that Paul writes are hard to understand, just as he said in this same book.
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

You do understand that a believer is saved in spirit not in flesh? And Paul is teaching the "mystery" of the gospel throughout his epistles, and even teaches this very truth here and in other epistles.
So you may not understand? It could be be that instead of trying to prove the bible is not true, if some would spend that same time trying to understand and believe the bible, many would be able to understand the scriptures as they should.

 

[George Muller]

George,

You're rejecting the Greek text and grammar. I showed you what the Greek text says. The adjective being translated "Heavenly" is being used as a substantive. A substantive is an Adjective that stands in the place of a noun. The adjective Heavenly needs a noun to modify, however, Paul didn't supply one thus, he used the adjective as a noun, a substantive. Now, the adjective is in the neuter gender therefore any noun that it would modify needs to be in the neuter gender also. Since it is a substantive and in the neuter gender, it means things, Heavenly things, not places.

Here is a link where you can read about the Adjectival Substantive.

Substantival Use of Greek Adjectives


The adjective can also be used alone (with or without the article) as a noun (

Well it is clear that no Greek scholar agrees with your conclusion, and the word is describing "heaven" no matter if you make it a adjective or what gender or anything else. Even the context says aorist tense that we are raised up together and "seated with Him" in the heavens. I find no greek scholar that would come to your conclusion? I find that many attempt to use the Greek as a way to explain away the truth.

Eph 2:6 (KJV) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (ASV) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly [places], in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:6 (BBE) So that we came back from death with him, and are seated with him in the heavens, in Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (DBY) and has raised [us] up together, and has made [us] sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MKJV) and has raised [us] up together and made [us] sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (MNT) together with him He raised us from the dead, and together with Christ Jesus seated us in the heavenly realm,
Eph 2:6 (NKJV) and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (Oracl) and has raised us up together, and has set us down together in heavenly places with Christ Jesus;
Eph 2:6 (RSV) and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (TCNT) And, through our union with Christ Jesus, God raised us with him, and caused us to sit with him on high,
Eph 2:6 (WEB) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (WNT) raised us with Him from the dead, and enthroned us with Him in the heavenly realms as being in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6 (YLT) and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,

George,

Where are you right now, In Heaven or on earth?

Well it is clear what Gods word says, that a believer is seated in Christ in heaven. Now I know these things are hard to understand "for great is the mystery of godliness" but the bible is true, whether some understand it or can believe it.

Col 1:12 ¶ Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Its called the "mystery" Spend your time trying to believe the bible, not trying to disprove the bible and you might be allowed to understand the deeper things of God?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What was Paul speaking of being saved from in the context of this letter specifically?

 

[Eugene]

What of Jesus' angel?

Jesus' angel?

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Angelos (angel) means messenger. Jesus was the messenger that brought the message to John.

I believe you to be correct concerning what an angel is, but saints can also be messengers, and in this case I do believe Jesus' angel was just such a one due to the following scriptures.

Revelation 19:9 And he (the messenger) saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

 

[WIP]

How do these verses apply? I can read it a couple different ways. Is Christ saying the risen will be like the angels (which are) in heaven or is he saying the risen will be in heaven like the angels?

From Mark 12, KJV

23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

The angels are in Heaven not the resurrected.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we will never be in heaven?