Christian's & Labor Unions??

[Elijah674]

I thought this was different as far as this Site's Threads have mentioned, at least lately? Labor Unions are the subject from another site seen below, maybe it might be discussed here?
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Re: Re: Re: Racketeering in Bentonville: The unionization of Walmart
By: Elijah674 Gender: M

insular926 wrote:

Eliyahu wrote:

My convictions prod me to be bold and stand up to the wicked on behalf of who they oppress and fear no one accept my Maker. I use this as a means of correcting them. Right now, our union activity is pretty much nothing more than a waarning shot to Bentonville to straighten up or face correction.
I could very easily be Wal-Mart's worse nightmare as far as unions go, because I got a hold of their strategy book for dealing with unions and read it cover to cover. But if they will turn, then I will ask YHWH to not send me against them and to allow me to stay my hand.

Eliyahu,
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insular wrote:


I'm glad that you're standing up for what's right, people really don't understand Walmart and how bad they treat many of their employee's, for most of my life I didn't believe it when people told me that Walmart was NOT good so one day I decided to work for Walmart, setting out to prove that they were wrong and/or full of BS and to my horror, I found out that they were 100 percent correct, what a tragedy.
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Elijah here:
No dis/respect meant. But what has that got to do with 'c'hristians using satans methods to fight back?? That is the point! Note 1 Cor. 3:1-3 'and walk as men.'??

[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

And Paul is surely speaking to us as well? And what will we now do????

--Elijah

 

[Pizzaguy]

I have a hard time with unions. I know that, way back decades ago, they had their place.

But today I still say, "If an employer is so terrible, just walk away and work somewhere else." The employer sets the rules, defines the job, etc.

Have I had problems with employers over the past 30 years? SURE! I find the way to deal with them, is to hang in there and learn all I can - then walk in a annouce I have accepted a job with (would is usually described as) the competition. :yes

If I am offered what I want, I will stay (has happened once) if not, I leave (has happened three times.)

Strong arm tactics are fine for others, but they don't feel right inside of me.

 

[heymikey80]

To me there're two sides to this coin.

Labor unions should be treated like corporations of workers. Because frankly, that's what they are. Corporations with monetary interests should not be allowed to monopolize the market.

Labor unions have powerful weapons of exposure and unified action; but their pursuit of a profit also makes them no better (nor worse) than a corporation also seeking profit.

 

[farouk]

So often, years ago, it was unions themselves, particularly their bosses, who discredited unions in the minds of Christians and conscientious people. I'm sure we can all tell of disturbing behavior by union representatives.

What is also unfortunate, however, is that in reaction to the truly bad behavior of some union bosses, many Christians have seemed to assume automatically that their interests coincide with the interests of big corporations and the political candidates that are supported by corporate interests.

And so you get political candidates, many of whom who are basically about getting government contracts for big corporations, who in some electoral areas will parade a trophy wife, with immaculate teeth, hair, lips and stilettos, being photographed attending a convenient Bible study someplace near election time. This is demeaning, too. (Who are they kidding? and who is kidding whom?)

So are Christians likely to support the strong-arm tactics, restrictive practices and monopolizing tendencies of some labor unions?

No.

But is it right just to assume that powerful corporations who themselves are too close to politicians are the automatic allies of Christians?

Again, no.

Christians need to keep their fingers — and stilettos — clean.

 

[Mike]

I have a hard time with unions. I know that, way back decades ago, they had their place.

But today I still say, "If an employer is so terrible, just walk away and work somewhere else." The employer sets the rules, defines the job, etc.

Have I had problems with employers over the past 30 years? SURE! I find the way to deal with them, is to hang in there and learn all I can - then walk in a annouce I have accepted a job with (would is usually described as) the competition. :yes

If I am offered what I want, I will stay (has happened once) if not, I leave (has happened three times.)

Strong arm tactics are fine for others, but they don't feel right inside of me.

I've always felt this way. A century ago, when many working conditions were hazardous to the health of the workers, okay. But companies in our times wouldn't survive if they treated their employees like they did back then. There would be a mass-exodus.

I live near the Motor City, where the UAW is still so powerful, it critically hampers the mouth that feeds them. What's the sense in that? The unions have less power than they used to (or maybe they're afraid of the backlash from society if they wielded it) when they would hold their employer hostage 30 years ago. It's ridiculous to me that they forced their own companies to pay their members full wages when they laid them off in order to "right-size" themselves. I've known plenty of UAW workers who used to pray to be laid off. What a life!! Some ended up working another job during long stretches, or they just enjoyed the LONG paid vacation.

And somehow U.S. corporations are supposed to compete in a global marketplace.

 

[jasoncran]

not always the case. in florida its useful to have them at times.here they republicans that control the city i work for are willing to demote cops and expect them to stay when larger cities want them or also they will retire if able to do so. they dont pay much so keeping rookies is hard for them.

here its the goverment or mcds or some local niche or if lucky some small industry and these industries depend on the federal goverment for funding. ie nasa the military.

welcome to florida. be old with money and die or young and poor and serve the old geezers. pessmistic or jaded ? yes i am. im tired of the sharad of its better for small govt here and raping the citizens so that the millioniares can make even more!

 

[Elijah674]

Pizzaguy says...'Strong arm tactics are fine for others, but they don't feel right inside of me.'

This is more of what I think we need to think about as Christians. Surely no Christian is without the Rom. 8:14 verse of being Led of the Holy Spirit. And surely no one is led differently than another in being led in ones obedience. Yet, we would be united with non/christians & even paying 'membership' dues.

So in bottom/line are we to be united using force to obtain higher wages & the like?

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

@ elijah i stood with the union when we told city hall if you are going to take our jobs.look at us in the face when you do it. one man took the podium and told of how he was nearly killed four times while repairing the power their homes. one time the fire fighters being afraid to help over possible ptfes let him sit in pain for two hours till one of them acted and risked his health for him. the old pole pigs have pcds in their cooling oil. its likely to kill you in a few years of exposure.

the ups is all unionised and well who is the best at getting cargo to and from? UPS!

 

[heymikey80]

@ elijah i stood with the union when we told city hall if you are going to take our jobs.look at us in the face when you do it. one man took the podium and told of how he was nearly killed four times while repairing the power their homes. one time the fire fighters being afraid to help over possible ptfes let him sit in pain for two hours till one of them acted and risked his health for him. the old pole pigs have pcds in their cooling oil. its likely to kill you in a few years of exposure.

Corporations can be sensitive and careful on both sides. Unions can be, too. But both can be more interested in politics or pocket-lining than people.

In Virginia one union struck against a chemical company for higher wages. After months of inactivity the company buckled and gave 'em what they asked for. A year and a half later, the plant was idled again: the company couldn't make money on the plant's product and closed it.

If you want a company rep to look you in the eye when they lay you off, I'd suggest you get the union leaders in that same room looking you in the eye as well. It's their responsibility every bit as much, sometimes even more, than the company.

the ups is all unionised and well who is the best at getting cargo to and from? UPS!

Actually ups used to be an employee-owned business, and as many employees still own a great deal of the company, they're following a largely different model. I almost started to work for ups.

They also used to require everyone -- top to bottom -- work in the field during Christmas crush.

 

[jasoncran]

here the union for both the ups and goverments is the same branch. teamsters!
im non-union and will remain so since the union decided to give us all here coverage and actually here the union is kinda powerless with the govt as we cant strike. i understand that law for good reasons. imagine you needed a cop and emt and or a firemedic. and they all were on strike over wages!


contrary to what the right leaning media says , some unions will concede to save jobs. that is done here but there comes a point where one must take a stand. such is the case where i live as the elite rich that well are in control seem to think that the city is for them that have $$ only and also dont mind spending others money for themselves on things they want when in fact they could afford it themselves easily. but the biggest clincher for me is when the wealthy councilmembers has the city pay for consultants to tell them how much the electric grid is for sale and yet say the city is broke. all the while wanting to sell said grid to only one bidder at the lowest bid. one power grid came forward and offered 30 million more then a larger grid was willing to give and wanted to save jobs for those affected, they werent even offered a chance. the council minds are made up. in the end if it sells the residents will pay more electric despite what the council says and they will get less service when a hurricane comes or they need light repaired.

 

[heymikey80]

The company I worked for went out of their way to find me another job.

I've even worked with companies that went out of their way to find people jobs in other companies.

Both unions and companies are corporations. The question of what they will do depends entirely on what they're interested in doing.

A government is a monopoly, however. That's a very different situation, when the group of people has exclusive power over its community. The proposals of one monopoly (electric company) proposing to another monopoly (the government) does have very anti-free-enterprise effects.

 

[jasoncran]

yes by its nature but there was a law in the books that would have changed that in the state senate. it would have allowed what has been done with the cable companies here. i can get dish, comcast and att for cable and phone. electric grids are all linked and when you pay them they might not be giving your that power from their plants but have bought it from another grids plants and selling it to you.

 

[Elijah674]

Still no reply to the question of us following Christ's example. Would He endorse any of His followers to 'join a labor union'???? Personally for me, no answer to that question is surely Rev. 3:16LUKEWARM at best!

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

Still no reply to the question of us following Christ's example. Would He endorse any of His followers to 'join a labor union'???? Personally for me, no answer to that question is surely Rev. 3:16LUKEWARM at best!

--Elijah

here? i would if i had to well lets see. its no job that pays for what i do have and work at wally mart for nothing or fight to save what i can for myself. i wouldnt kill for money like that.

 

[heymikey80]

yes by its nature but there was a law in the books that would have changed that in the state senate. it would have allowed what has been done with the cable companies here. i can get dish, comcast and att for cable and phone. electric grids are all linked and when you pay them they might not be giving your that power from their plants but have bought it from another grids plants and selling it to you.

Power competition is available here, too. But the power company still owns the means of transmission, and the monopolistic power company owns that transmission and charges power producers to ride on it.

In college I worked on something entirely different, a local power production cell. I noticed it got a little airplay a few years ago, too. No power company would appreciate it; but then, neighborhoods can probably gain some independence there. It burns natural gas at a very high temperature, and so it's very efficient. I don't know much about the lifetime of the cells, but they're solid state.

 

[heymikey80]

Still no reply to the question of us following Christ's example. Would He endorse any of His followers to 'join a labor union'???? Personally for me, no answer to that question is surely Rev. 3:16LUKEWARM at best!

--Elijah

I believe Jesus would endorse some of His people to join a union, yes.

I also believe Jesus would oppose others of His people from joining a union. Unions are groups of people with a common cause, not people with specific tactics.

Jesus is primarily interested in redemption for His people. When unions advocate redemption of the situation, I expect Jesus would support them. When they set up barriers and opposition, or even collusion in wrong, I expect Jesus would oppose them. Human nature being what it is, I don't think Jesus would advocate special protection of unions -- but would advocate enforcement of protections that any assembly of people is afforded, including for-profit corporations.