Christians Placing Hands on People - Healing

[Mitspa]

I think it could be very helpful if we who claim the purity and truth of these spiritual gifts, would seperate ourselves from that which is not of the heart and intention of the Lord.
There is a false charismatic movement, one should not doubt that! There is that which is real and even some involved with the real have some issues. I have not nor do I see any great harm in expressing this fact. I also have some very wonderful gifts from God. I hope I would never bring shame upon these things through the desire for worldy gain.
I think it could be helpful to allow others who are not sure of these things express thier concerns and maybe help assure them, that they would also ask God for these good things?

 

[ezra]

the Gifts are there some feel they went out with the apostles .. to many today use the Gifts to boast of themselves not of What God is doing through them. the Gifts are for the edifying of the Body ..facts is not even the apostles by them self healed. God used them through the Holy Spirit . the miracles that took place was of God NOT of man... we should worship the giver of the Gifts-----> Christ instead some not all worship the gift

 

[reba]

Seems to me mankind tries to limit God, If mankind does not limit God it shows how weak our faith is in this area or that.

 

[Mitspa]

Paul said I thank my God, I pray in tongues more than you all!
Was he boasting in himself or in His God? In His God!
Be strong in the Lord and the power of His Might, can look a little prideful to a carnal christian.

 

[ezra]

Paul said I thank my God, I pray in tongues more than you all!
Was he boasting in himself or in His God? In His God!
Be strong in the Lord and the power of His Might, can look a little prideful to a carnal christian.

you posted you prayed in tongues was you boasting?

Be strong in the Lord and the power of His Might, can look a little prideful to a carnal christian

so know your saying we can be in the flesh as a Christian? i have no problem with tongues done decently and in order... 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best[d] gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.totopic

 

[vocalyocal]

No. God provides all healing. "Laying on of hands" for the purpose of healing is an invalid gift, and has been since the first century. It was part of the "signs and wonders" ministry Jesus used and provided to His the apostles so their message could be confirmed. But once the complete word of God, the Bible, was canonized -- not by man, but by God -- there was no further need for that ministry, as the confirmation of the message was the changed hearts of the men, women and children who heard it, and the Word which gave the evidence to the unbeliever for salvation, and then sanctification once he/she believed.

this is the most unbiblical statement completely unsubstantiated by scripture and points directly to Pauls warning to 2 Timothy 3:5

having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!



instead be a believer in Gods word and remember the words of Jesus Himself He said



And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they[a] will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.â€

 

[vocalyocal]

I've visited this issue over and over again on this forum in regards to tongues and prophecy. 1 Corinthians 13 clearly teaches these gifts were ending even as Paul was writing, and did end when the canon was closed with John's completion of The Revelation, though Paul may or may not have known which work it was that would bring the canon to completion ("perfection" in 1 Corinthians 13:10).

the perfection was not the bible but Jesus Himself why on earth would He say when we see Him face to face

more importantly notice what he follows the verses you believe concludes the operation of the gifts ......"EAGERLY DESIRE SPIRITUAL GIFTS!!!!!!!!

what gifts? and he goes on to indentify tongues and prophecy


the question you really should be asking yourself is why do you resist the power of God

 

[vocalyocal]

look its just a commentary he has his opinion just like nay body else .. its not salvation threatening i listen to MacArthur every know and then but i do not agree with Calvinism. yet i still enjoy listening to him. if he throws in his Calvinism teaching i ignore that part
i could post about 9 more commentaries on the subject if i desired

why throw in commentaries, isn't the bible a good enough source for truth

 

[reba]

When ever we post anything here that is about Scripture but not a quote it is a commentary.

 

[vocalyocal]

Telios or variations of it ("It is finished!" = to telestai, which also means "paid in full" appear over 50 times in the New Testament and not all refer to Jesus, or to words spoken by Jesus.

Hardly. The opinions are split virtually down the middle. Also, it is a neuter middle verb. Jesus cannot possible by described with a neuter middle verb. All verbs modifying the proper and personal pronouns of Jesus are masculine. This passage is not talking about Jesus. With that, I'm not going to go over this ground again. It is a lost cause where the gifts are concerned. People who believe the gifts are active will find any excuse to continue in that belief.

If that be the case, then they also believe that there is further revelation to come, extrabiblically, which (strictly in my opinion) is ludicrous. God has given us everything we need in the canon of Scripture we have.

I understand that many do not see it as clear and convincing as I do. That's not my problem. They are free to believe as they choose. That belief, however, must be held in spite of what many consider overwhelming evidence, such as the fact of the verb tense and voice as I've mentioned above. Those who continue to believe the gifts are active never can overcome that fact, and rather choose to ignore it or rail against the reasoning without ever really overcoming the point or disproving the reasoning.

so at the end of the day, you are forced to come to either one or the other conclusion, because the over whelming amount of testimonies of people healed by the laying on of hands has to be attributed to some supernatural power,

 

[Mitspa]

you posted you prayed in tongues was you boasting?so know your saying we can be in the flesh as a Christian?

Boasting in the Lord!
You know very well that I have never taught that a christian cannot be in the flesh! Thats dishonest.
Some of the things you might see in a carnal chistian, are dishonesty, bitterness, envy and strife. If you see these things in a christian, you can pretty much know they are in the flesh.

But there is a better way! now lets get back to the topic! lol

 

[gr8grace]

this is the most unbiblical statement completely unsubstantiated by scripture and points directly to Pauls warning to 2 Timothy 3:5

having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!



instead be a believer in Gods word and remember the words of Jesus Himself He said



And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they[a] will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

One should be very careful with that accusation. The power denied is the cross and Its saving power in the verse you state. and THISNUMBERDIS has never denied that. We are talking about gifts that BELIEVERS have. I agree with TND and the gifts of healing and tongues being done.

The problem we have today is that believers are not being trained as disciples that are INDWELT with the Spirit. And we are being convinced by the world and religion that being INDWELT by God is not enough, we still need signs and wonders.

You believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen and have believed I am sticking with that, because we have NO idea the blessings we will have in the Church age for believing what we cannot see with our eyes and feel with our fingers.

And the Mark verses you quote,[ SOME OF THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT INCLUDE 16:9-20]

It is a hot button issue, and I will not debate, but from my studies the Gifts of healing and tongues are finished. But I will not Hinder a brother or sister who believes it, if they do believe Christ crucified.

 

[vocalyocal]

you can argue all day what the greek says and what it means in regards to the gifts coming to an end, but that does nothing to the blatent fact that people are still experiencing healing today through the laying on of hands by believers

this being said every person has only two choices of who they want to attribute this supernatural healing to its either the work of the Holy Spirit in the still present operation of spiritual gifts

or it is a deception and the work of satan..................NOTICE!!!!!! be very careful when answering this question as it can have long lasting eternal effects

I should also point out "the Gifts and God's calling are IRREVOCABLE!" (Romans 11:29) people can recieve them then abuse the gift in an ungodly way

 

[Mitspa]

One should be very careful with that accusation. The power denied is the cross and Its saving power in the verse you state. and THISNUMBERDIS has never denied that. We are talking about gifts that BELIEVERS have. I agree with TND and the gifts of healing and tongues being done.

The problem we have today is that believers are not being trained as disciples that are INDWELT with the Spirit. And we are being convinced by the world and religion that being INDWELT by God is not enough, we still need signs and wonders.

You believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen and have believed I am sticking with that, because we have NO idea the blessings we will have in the Church age for believing what we cannot see with our eyes and feel with our fingers.

And the Mark verses you quote,[ SOME OF THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT INCLUDE 16:9-20]

It is a hot button issue, and I will not debate, but from my studies the Gifts of healing and tongues are finished. But I will not Hinder a brother or sister who believes it, if they do believe Christ crucified.

So you believe that the bible cannot be taken for what its says, but after we have the bible it really does not mean what is says anymore? Think about that! So when a church got an epistle from Paul the espistle did not mean what it says??
Because they got the epistle? Or because a group got together and decided this epistle is from Paul, and now that we have it, it no longer means what is written in it?

Do you guys really accept this stuff that was made up by the RCC?

 

[vocalyocal]

One should be very careful with that accusation. The power denied is the cross and Its saving power in the verse you state. and THISNUMBERDIS has never denied that. We are talking about gifts that BELIEVERS have. I agree with TND and the gifts of healing and tongues being done.

The problem we have today is that believers are not being trained as disciples that are INDWELT with the Spirit. And we are being convinced by the world and religion that being INDWELT by God is not enough, we still need signs and wonders.

You believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen and have believed I am sticking with that, because we have NO idea the blessings we will have in the Church age for believing what we cannot see with our eyes and feel with our fingers.

And the Mark verses you quote,[ SOME OF THE EARLIEST MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT INCLUDE 16:9-20]

It is a hot button issue, and I will not debate, but from my studies the Gifts of healing and tongues are finished. But I will not Hinder a brother or sister who believes it, if they do believe Christ crucified.

again it doesn't matter what you believe or what you don't believe, PEOPLE ARE BEING HEALED!!!!!!!!

are you telling me you have never met a believer who hasn't given you testimony of how God healed them when people laid hands on them and prayed, what group of believers are you hanging out with, that no one has a testimony or an experience

I personally know of a family who's baby was born blind, not only blind but the xrays confirmed this baby did not even have the cords that go from the eye to the brain.......the baby was held up in front of the church and the people began to pray...........no this isn't one of those televised crazy theatric churches, just one where believers believe in a real and living God, who works miracles and answers prayers

yes today the baby see's perfectly, and a dumb founded doctor who can't explain what happened has to deal with the fact that something beyond all known medicine has happened.................................so for you again a choice must be made, was it God or was it a satanic deception

 

[gr8grace]

So you believe that the bible cannot be taken for what its says, but after we have the bible it really does not mean what is says anymore? Think about that! So when a church got an epistle from Paul the espistle did not mean what it says??
Because they got the epistle? Or because a group got together and decided this epistle is from Paul, and now that we have it, it no longer means what is written in it?

Do you guys really accept this stuff that was made up by the RCC?

Mitspa brother, it is beyond Christ Crucified and faith alone. so I am not worried about it. If I am wrong so be it.

 

[gr8grace]

again it doesn't matter what you believe or what you don't believe, PEOPLE ARE BEING HEALED!!!!!!!!

are you telling me you have never met a believer who hasn't given you testimony of how God healed them when people laid hands on them and prayed, what group of believers are you hanging out with, that no one has a testimony or an experience

I personally know of a family who's baby was born blind, not only blind but the xrays confirmed this baby did not even have the cords that go from the eye to the brain.......the baby was held up in front of the church and the people began to pray...........no this isn't one of those televised crazy theatric churches, just one where believers believe in a real and living God, who works miracles and answers prayers

yes today the baby see's perfectly, and a dumb founded doctor who can't explain what happened has to deal with the fact that something beyond all known medicine has happened.................................so for you again a choice must be made, was it God or was it a satanic deception

I have said what I said. And God still does miracles. I am Done with this.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa brother, it is beyond Christ Crucified and faith alone. so I am not worried about it. If I am wrong so be it.

I agree my brother? sister? not sure? You are a blessing!

 

[vocalyocal]

Mitspa brother, it is beyond Christ Crucified and faith alone. so I am not worried about it. If I am wrong so be it.

yes but you have to understand that the apostles were told to wait.........Now we all know they had the salvation gospel as we know it, they could of said "This gospel is good enough for us" lets go and start delivering it, its good enough to save anyone who listens

and would that not be true, didn't the apostles have the salvation gospel of Jesus dying on the cross for the redemption of sins


Acts 1:4
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[a] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”




seems these powers will be with real believers to the end of the earth! powerless christianity is by far the greatest deception ever conspired

 

[vocalyocal]

I have said what I said. And God still does miracles. I am Done with this.

well then believe your "perfection" which to you is the bible and do what Paul teaches "EAGERLY DESIRE SPIRITUAL GIFTS"!!!!!!

your Father will not give you a rock or a snake