Christmas, Biblically sound, or Catholic baggage?

[Klee shay]

Sorry CJ, my reply (last on page 4) was not meant to diminish the truths you have spoken about however. Just my personal interpretation of Christmas and the walk I'm travelling at the moment.

Hope you have a safe and happy New Year. :D

 

[cj]

I sense what you're trying to say CJ, I'm just not that cynical.

What you call cynical I call truthful.

Fact is, the Son had no problem leaving everything in the Father's hands; a pattern we should follow.

I still have many more faults to reckon with however.

We all do, and will untill the day we die or are taken up.

I actually had a conversation with my mother recently about my sudden change of heart, and she tried to tarnish what was good and pure with the hazards of such actions. In the end I had to tell her I felt like she was taking something wonderful Jesus had shown me and trying to twist my heart into focussing on the enemy.

I wonder, did you temper your emotions with the principle of the commandment which says to honor your parents?

I do have an issue with pride (vs confidence) because that's what tends to happen when you've been trodden on as a child. When you're old enough to start defending yourself however pride becomes a real issue. God has made me aware of this and he continues to do so.

Pride is the essence of Satan's mind and is what we were infected with when we allowed Him into our being.

I suspect you have an issue with Christmas though.

Then allow me to make it very clear,.... I do, and it results from coming to see it for what it really is, something that is absolutely against God.

Nothing sinister in your intentions - you just haven't found any evidence to support celebrating his birthday. Maybe there is none? Maybe it's just another Pagan holiday dressed up as something holy?

Actually, I'm not looking to justify my thoughts with human reasoning.

Christmas is not of God, never was and never will be.

That's enough for me, and should be enough for any humble believer.

Christmas is here to stay however - like the enemy and like the poor - they will be with us always.

Actually its not,.... or so the bible says.

Christmas, like all things of fallen humanity will pass away.

And I don't think that God celebrates the human birthday of the Son, His only Son, whom He allowed to be murdered by men.

Perhaps you should consider the scripture that declares.... "The last Adam... became... the life giving Spirit." as it might help you understand where God is at regarding His Son.

Do you know what is forever?.... The blood His Son shed in His death; it sits forever on the mercy seat of God. Meaning this, God will forever be reminded of His Son's horrible death.

But hey, maybe you think that's a good reason to celebrate His human birth.

What you do with it determines what Christmas can actually achieve to defy the enemy and help the poor.

Vanity.... pure and simple vanity.

My Lord acheive everything on the cross.

Have you not read this in the scriptures?

Satan is defeated. Death is defeated. Sin is defeated. Or do you not believe what scripture says?

And the poor,.... the best way to help them is to hasten the Lord's return.

Are you hastening the Lord's return? Do you even know how to hasten the Lord's return? Did you even know we could hasten the Lord's return?

Do you want to know my favourite memory of Christmas this year? It was over breakfast Christmas morning and our two and a half year old daughter started to sing "happy birthday baby Jesus." We told her that it was baby Jesus's birthday and she knows the birthday song - so rather spontaneously she started to sing "happy birthday baby Jesus." She still walks around the house - even after Christmas - singing happy birthday to baby Jesus.

That's wonderful, but what if you had taught her to say "Hallelujah, He has risen and He lives in me!", which do you think will become more meaningful in her life.

Honestly, I wish someone had taught me to say "Hallelujah, He has risen and He lives in me!" when I was two and a half. It might have saved me a whole lot of heartache, pain, and suffering.

In fact, it might have saved many in my family from these things. But "Happy Birthday Jesus",..... not much came out of learning that.

From the mouth of babes comes praise. And that to me, is the joy of it all.

See, that's not a proper thing to do, just take a scripture and apply it any 'ol way you feel.

When Jesus spoke of praise coming out of the mouths of babes and sucklings it was according to a type/shadow of what the church is, children of God who are just new-born and in need of te care one would give a baby.

Yet, these new-born children can praise Him even in their infancy.

Fact is, the scripture has nothing to do with a two year old saying "Happy Birthday Jesus."



Please understand that I am not saying this to offend you; love and enjoy your child to the fullest, but at the same time love God to the fullest and in doing so be truthful.

For anything other than truth is not loving God. And if you are not loving God then in reality you are not giving even your child the best you could.


In love,
cj

 

[Klee shay]

It's your opinion based on a lack of scriptual evidence to support celebrating his birthday, and nothing more.

The difference you fail to see is that I'm celebrating my Lord - I've been inspired from indulging myself on Christmas to wanting to help others; and you say this is vain? Was Christ vain for healing the sick and maimed. Was Christ vain for feeding the multitude? Was Christ vain for raising the dead? What you attribute to my desire to help those in need - you also attribute to Christ who dwells in me.

Try and see beyond your own indignation for a second to see the real truth - the one you don't see here.

Matthew 26:7-10

7. There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8. But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9. For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10. When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

You have indignation because I want to waste what I have upon Jesus and his cause? The money I give will be going to those who may need it because it's been inspired of Jesus - not because it's my vain pride. I'm only sharing it here to encourage others to see beyond themselves on Christmas to celebrate a more wondeful meaning. The poor will be with us always but does that mean we do not have the compassion and generosity Christ did; to wrought a good work in his name?

Does my giving offend thee, or the occassion I choose to give?

I wonder, did you temper your emotions with the principle of the commandment which says to honor your parents?

When did it become dishonourable to disagree with your parents? I'm supposed to pick my mother's fears over the Lord's love? I don't think you want to accept my logic because it offends your position. Yet I am not doing any wrong by loving God and by giving to others - that's my focal point, not anything else.

You're trying to attribute your fears into my vanity when that is not the condition of my heart. I'm besotted with the Lord Jesus and I kind of thought that was the idea. I love Jesus for coming and I love God for sending him. This is just cause for celebration to me. Were the three wise men vain for spoiling the Lord with gifts on his day of birth too?

We got it wrong when we thought Christmas was about us and spoiling ourselves.

 

[cj]

It's your opinion based on a lack of scriptual evidence to support celebrating his birthday, and nothing more.

Its not an opinion its a fact..... whether you like it or not.

The difference you fail to see is that I'm celebrating my Lord - I've been inspired from indulging myself on Christmas to wanting to help others; and you say this is vain?

Never did say that.

But I'll say this,..... check your offences at the door or you will never be allowed into the light. (And yes, I can provide the necessary backup scripture.)

All I'm saying is take this truth all the way home. You didn't need Christmas to reveal this truth to you, you needed the Spirit, and the Spirit has no need of Christmas. In fact, Christmas is a hinderance to the work of the Spirit.

Was Christ vain for healing the sick and maimed. Was Christ vain for feeding the multitude? Was Christ vain for raising the dead? What you attribute to my desire to help those in need - you also attribute to Christ who dwells in me.

The tree Eve ate from contains both good and evil knowledge, and even Jesus said that an unbeliever knows not to give his son a snake.

Doing humanity is nothing great,.... doing divinity is.

When Christ did all that He did He was already one with the Father.

I doubt you and I are one with the Father, so we must account for the part of us that is one with the Father. Do you know how we do this? An it ain't by playing Jingle Bells.

Try and see beyond your own indignation for a second to see the real truth - the one you don't see here.

Look Kleeshay, I have no problem with your silly comments about my "indignation", but perhaps you would look a lot less silly if you centered on the substance rather than the useless.

Matthew 26:7-10

7. There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8. But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9. For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10. When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

You have indignation because I want to waste what I have upon Jesus and his cause?

Error #1..... Jesus followers have nothing of their own, it all belongs to Him.

How then can you waste what isn't yours?

The money I give will be going to those who may need it because it's been inspired of Jesus - not because it's my vain pride. I'm only sharing it here to encourage others to see beyond themselves on Christmas to celebrate a more wondeful meaning. The poor will be with us always but does that mean we do not have the compassion and generosity Christ did; to wrought a good work in his name?

KleeShay, do you even know the true meaning of the alabaster box?

By your speaking I doubt it.

Mary's alabaster box contained what, something she had worked for, something she had sacrificed for?

No.

Everything Mary had in that box was given to her by God. Humanly she may have worked and sacrificed, but God was still the one who allowed her to possess it. And for good reason, so that His Son could be annointed before His death.

Fact is God provided what was in the alabaster box tha Mary had. It all belonged to God. God was who gave it to the Son.

As it is with all things.

And even more, what the box contained was in type, the Son Himself as a sweet aroma. For what is worthy of annointing God? Only God can annoint God.


KleeShay, don't listen to silly "Christian" songs about alabaster boxes and be lead to believe what is being said.

Does my giving offend thee, or the occassion I choose to give?

Not at all, but your ignorance of the truth I mourn.

I wonder, did you temper your emotions with the principle of the commandment which says to honor your parents?

When did it become dishonourable to disagree with your parents? I'm supposed to pick my mother's fears over the Lord's love?

No,... you're suppose to trust God in the parents He gave you to.

I don't think you want to accept my logic because it offends your position.

My position is Christ, how can I be offended?

As for your "logic", God calls it foolishness. So again, I ask, how can I be offended?

Yet I am not doing any wrong by loving God and by giving to others - that's my focal point, not anything else.

John the Baptist continued his ministry even though he himself declared that God had arrived.

Who cares about wrong or right, jus give me God. That's my focal point.

But you don't see this truth. And if you don't see it then you are unable to reflect it.

You're trying to attribute your fears into my vanity when that is not the condition of my heart.

My only fear is that you remain in your darkness.

I'm besotted with the Lord Jesus and I kind of thought that was the idea. I love Jesus for coming and I love God for sending him.

Then, if you love Him so much how come He is so unknown to you?

When you love someone don't you give your all to know them?

Peter also thought he loved the Lord, until confronted that is.

This is just cause for celebration to me. Were the three wise men vain for spoiling the Lord with gifts on his day of birth too?

The wise men were men,.... fallen unperfected men. What do you think.

We got it wrong when we thought Christmas was about us and spoiling ourselves.

No, we got it right. That's all Christmas is about.


In love,
cj

 

[Klee shay]

You judge me yet your heart knows nothing. Amen. :D

You would rather condemn me for my flaws than see the intent in my heart.

 

[cj]

You judge me yet your heart knows nothing. Amen. :D

You would rather condemn me for my flaws than see the intent in my heart.

Don't worry so much about me, consider your own words and the condemning they do.

In love,
cj

 

[Free]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald...l?id=2a82558b-1b34-4eac-ab21-908217390859&p=1

 

[Klee shay]

Don't worry so much about me, consider your own words and the condemning they do.

Let me let you in on a lesson about condemnation. God used you yesterday friend - but not for your knowledge. It was your arrogance and indignation in believing you had perceived the Lord's instruction and I had it wrong.

Yesterday I discovered something in my husband's possession which was part of his old life - before God. Now I was righteously angry and I wanted to let him know how wrong he was according to God's word. He was wrong, it says in God's word - I can find it in the scriptures to point it out and condemn his wrong doing. But God didn't intend for me to act in this fashion.

So he allowed your righteous knowledge to sting me this day as a warning how not to treat others when administering God's knowledge. For it is not righteous to administer the scriptures to turn people away from God.

Having felt your righteous condemnation according to God's word yesterday, I prayed to God to help me convey to my husband what he wanted me to say. And I did - nothing more. I didn't quote scripture at him...I didn't tell him how sad I was with his inability to know and/or follow God the way I do. I merely asked him on behalf of God; what keeping those things (even if he didn't actively use them) has benefited his life. His Holy Spirit did the rest in convicting him.

After talking with my husband afterwards he thanked me for sharing. It gave him something useful to contemplate other than my righteous understanding of the scriptures. Yes - he isn't perfect but God uses that. While you feel you are perfecting others with your understanding of the bible and God; he uses you to perfect others. This was the folly of Peter adn I believe each and every Christian MUST experience it to be humbled by God.

My knowledge doesn't define my relationship with God. His knowledge defines my life according to his good will. It was his good will that you condemn the inspiration he gave me regarding Christmas; so I could understand how it felt when righteousness was administered without the hand of God behind it.

It was your indignation which I saw yesterday - not your knowledge of God. For if I was meant to see the truth in what you know, God certainly would have inspired me to see it. You judged my inspiration but your heart does not know from where it comes. For if it did you would understand it came from God and that he was working in me.

Be right all you want CJ...God will use that indignation to reach others where you are incapable of going. Let me admit I am wrong about Christmas if that is all that is standing between us. Being right isn't important to me any more. Listening to God is though.

Understanding God's scriptures does not make us righteous. It's only when we apply it according to his good will; through his inspiration and not our own.

 

[Imagican]

Klee shay,

I admire your revelation. But I think what CJ is saying without saying is; why Christmas? Why not as you see one in need, help?

And CJ, I agree 100 percent with your sentiments towards the falseness of Christmas. However, IF, and it's a BIG IF, we could simply celebrate the birth of Christ on this date, it wouldn't be a 'bad' thing. The date really doesn't matter. What matters is that we've simply continued a pagan festival and inserted Christ's name into it.

But, it's really not Christ's birth that is important. It's His death and resurrection. We should now celebrate the LIVING Christ EVERYDAY and abandon all that is against Him.

 

[Vic C.]

Klee shay,

I admire your revelation. But I think what CJ is saying without saying is; why Christmas? Why not as you see one in need, help?

And CJ, I agree 100 percent with your sentiments towards the falseness of Christmas. However, IF, and it's a BIG IF, we could simply celebrate the birth of Christ on this date, it wouldn't be a 'bad' thing. The date really doesn't matter. What matters is that we've simply continued a pagan festival and inserted Christ's name into it.

But, it's really not Christ's birth that is important. It's His death and resurrection. We should now celebrate the LIVING Christ EVERYDAY and abandon all that is against Him.

Good post overall, expacially that last 'part'. I do feel the need to comment on this though:

What matters is that we've simply continued a pagan festival and inserted Christ's name into it.

That's what irks me the most, not the fact that is isn't God-ordained Holy Day, but that we kept all the pagan "baggage". Let go of that baggage and Dec. 25th. means little, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Imagican]

Vic,

Yes, I do agree, and that's why I thought that this thread might be worthy of everyone's comments. I sometimes think that 'the reason' that we 'don't' have Christ's 'actual' birthdate was deliberately planned so that it 'wouldn't' be made shame of as it has. At least this way it is OUR choice to bastardize such a holy occasion, and it's date is man-made instead of the 'actual' date that Christ was born. Shame on man for his infinitely evil intent. And thank God, that He loves us regardless of our selfish and thoughtless desires.

Good job guys and thanks for the participation.

 

[Free]

Apparently no one read my link. Oh well, think what you will.

 

[guibox]

Apparently no one read my link. Oh well, think what you will.

Here is the main part of Free's post for people to see:

Then Zechariah "was chosen by lot, by the custom of the priesthood, to go into the Temple of the Lord and burn the incense," Luke continues.

Priests burned incense at the Holy of Holies on only one important day, Doll says: Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement, 10 days after Rosh Hashana, the New Year. That year (4 BC, he argues) Rosh Hashana was Sept. 15.

"Then appeared to him an angel of the Lord . . . and when Zechariah saw him, he was startled and gripped with fear," Luke greatly understates the situation. "The angel said, 'Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son. You will call him John...'"

Temple priests were celibate for their 10-day appointments, says Doll. So Zechariah is away from Elizabeth from Sept. 15 to Sept. 24. He then goes home, and John is conceived Sept. 25.

The same Angel Gabriel later appears to young Mary of Nazareth, saying, "Hail, full of grace." He promises she will bear a Son "whose kingdom will never end."

Mary asks, How? since she "does not know man."

The angel replies "the Holy Spirit will come upon you . . ."

As proof, Gabriel tells her, "Even Elizabeth your cousin is having a child in her old age; she who was barren is in her sixth month. For with God, nothing is impossible."

Six months from John's conception, Sept. 25, is March 25, henceforth known as the Annunciation or conception of Jesus. From 500 AD until 1582 (and the new Gregorian calendar), it was also the Christian New Year. And: Nine months after Jesus' conception, March 25, is Dec. 25, his birth

There are a few things that must be assumed and a few others that are ignored for this to be true.

You must assume:

* That the dates are accurate to the day
* That Jesus was in the womb exactly 9 months to the day

You end up ignoring:

* That the shepherd didn't tend their sheep in the winter but in the fall
* That December 25 IS a pagan holiday in celebration of the Sun god Tammuz

So it just happened that these deity celebrations fell on the exact same day??

I think the article is creative at best but not very stable.

 

[Georges]

Apparently no one read my link. Oh well, think what you will.

Here is the main part of Free's post for people to see:

Then Zechariah "was chosen by lot, by the custom of the priesthood, to go into the Temple of the Lord and burn the incense," Luke continues.

Priests burned incense at the Holy of Holies on only one important day, Doll says: Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement, 10 days after Rosh Hashana, the New Year. That year (4 BC, he argues) Rosh Hashana was Sept. 15.

"Then appeared to him an angel of the Lord . . . and when Zechariah saw him, he was startled and gripped with fear," Luke greatly understates the situation. "The angel said, 'Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son. You will call him John...'"

Temple priests were celibate for their 10-day appointments, says Doll. So Zechariah is away from Elizabeth from Sept. 15 to Sept. 24. He then goes home, and John is conceived Sept. 25.

The same Angel Gabriel later appears to young Mary of Nazareth, saying, "Hail, full of grace." He promises she will bear a Son "whose kingdom will never end."

Mary asks, How? since she "does not know man."

The angel replies "the Holy Spirit will come upon you . . ."

As proof, Gabriel tells her, "Even Elizabeth your cousin is having a child in her old age; she who was barren is in her sixth month. For with God, nothing is impossible."

Six months from John's conception, Sept. 25, is March 25, henceforth known as the Annunciation or conception of Jesus. From 500 AD until 1582 (and the new Gregorian calendar), it was also the Christian New Year. And: Nine months after Jesus' conception, March 25, is Dec. 25, his birth

There are a few things that must be assumed and a few others that are ignored for this to be true.

You must assume:

* That the dates are accurate to the day
* That Jesus was in the womb exactly 9 months to the day

You end up ignoring:

* That the shepherd didn't tend their sheep in the winter but in the fall
* That December 25 IS a pagan holiday in celebration of the Sun god Tammuz

So it just happened that these deity celebrations fell on the exact same day??

I think the article is creative at best but not very stable.

I read the link (it was posted on another forum). I found it flawed and lacking any serious background study....As I had addressed it because it was bought to my personal attention, I will post what I had responded there, here.

From another thread.....:

yesha wrote:
Georges,

Did you notice this post from Free?

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/new ... 390859&p=1


Yesha...I did not, haven't been on a lot in the last couple of weeks. The thing that trips the timing up in that article is the time that Zecharias priestly duty (according to his family) was to be performed....

An Excerpt From the Book:
Rosh HaShanah and the Messianic Kingdom to Come
copyright © 1989, Joseph Good, all rights reserved

An easy to document, but not well known fact, is the date of the birth of Yeshua. This is done by establishing several things:

The date that Gabriel the angel tells Zechariah, the soon to be father of Yochanan, about his son's birth. (The birth date of Yochanan (John) is established by going forward nine months, the term of pregnancy).

The approximate date of Miriam's (Mary's) conception.

The date of Herod's death.

The date that Gabriel the angel told Zechariah that he and his wife were going to have Yochanan is established from the following. Luke 1.5 states that Zechariah is a priest of the course of Abijah. King David, according to I Chronicles twenty-four, had divided the priestly families into twenty-four groups. Each group was called a course, and named after the head of that particular family. Each course served for one week in the first half of the year, and for another week the second half of the year. This was in addition to the weeks of Hag haMatzah, Shavuot, and Sukkot, when all the courses were required to be present (Deuteronomy 16.16). Therefore, the first course served the first week of the year (Aviv); the second course, the second week; then all the courses, the third, because it was Hag haMatzah, and so on. I Chronicles 24.10 lists the course of Abijah as the eighth course. This course would serve the tenth week of the first half of the year, having allowed two weeks for Hag haMatzah and Shavuot. It is at this time that Zechariah receives the prophecy of Yochanan's birth.

.....according to the above article, if Z served in the 8th course, he would have been serving 8 weeks after the Jewish Religious New Year which is usually late March or early April. Passover occurs 14 days after the Jewish Religious New Year begins, so Z served his week approx 6 weeks after Passover.

Here is the link that provides the rest of the information on the timing of Jesus' birth.

http://www.hatikva.org/articles/birth-o ... ukkot.html

also, there are other items wrong with free's link.....including the remark about the incense burning....that was an everyday event. The article is very misleading...
_________________

 

[Vic C.]

also, there are other items wrong with free's link.....including the remark about the incense burning....that was an everyday event. The article is very misleading...

Good job George. I was in the process of checking my notes and sources when I decided to read the rest of the thread. Not only was it a daily event before prayer, I believe, from memory and without checking my sources any further, it was a twice-a-day event. The daily occurrence of burning incense can be seen throughout the OT.

 

[Klee shay]

Klee shay,

I admire your revelation. But I think what CJ is saying without saying is; why Christmas? Why not as you see one in need, help?

What confounds me is, why not Christmas as a lesson about good will towards all men? If you learn the lesson of generocity does it matter what day it falls on or what God uses around you to do it?

From this one day (this so called objectionable day of Christ's birth) God taught me something about giving which will last me the rest of my life. So now I can give whenever I'm inspired to by God and not just on that one day in Decemeber.

I don't know where you or CJ got the idea that God's inspiration was only going to last until Janurary. If you're going to believe in the death and resurrection you have to first believe in his birth. When you believe in his birth; you also believe in his death and resurrection.

All this debating about a day God uses regardless of how men use it. Did God not create every hour in the day; number them accordingly and pass them onto mankind to use until his return? It doesn't matter what we call those days; how we signify their importance one from another. All that matters is that we are inspired by God every day and speak when he tells us to speak.

I'm sorry that my testimony got caught up in this heated debate because the meaning has lost it's importance now. I was pointing to God and others told me to focus on the day God wouldn't use to signify his Son's birth. Sorry, but God uses this day like every other one. Perhaps everyone needs to stop finding the division of interpretation over insignificant things less; and look for the purpose of God in EVERYTHING.

Even in a Pagan holiday.

 

[Free]

This was from earlier in the thread:

First and foremost, I don't see a command telling us we should be celebrating His birthday.

Is there a command to celebrate His death and resurrection or should we should we be thinking twice about that one too?

Two days of the year that non-Christians are likely to enter a church and hear the gospel...how pagan...

 

[Georges]

Klee shay,

I admire your revelation. But I think what CJ is saying without saying is; why Christmas? Why not as you see one in need, help?

What confounds me is, why not Christmas as a lesson about good will towards all men? If you learn the lesson of generocity does it matter what day it falls on or what God uses around you to do it?

From this one day (this so called objectionable day of Christ's birth) God taught me something about giving which will last me the rest of my life. So now I can give whenever I'm inspired to by God and not just on that one day in Decemeber.

Klee....here is probably the most important reason why it shouldn't be celebrated in Dec (conception yes...Hannukah, birth no...that would be Sukkot). It has to do with the Feast Days of the Lord, and the First and Second comings of the Messiah. As seen in other posts and in Messianic Studies of the Feast Days...you (anyone) will find that the most important events in Jewish (and Christian) history occur on these days, including the birth of Christ.

Why does this matter? It matters because the Jewish Feast Days form a timeline of events, past and future. The events and customs of the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is a picture of the Messianic Millennium (a time of great joy). To celebrate Christ's birth on Dec 25 is to forget about this very important reason of the Feast's God commanded us to observe. The Feast Days prepare us for the actual prophetic event.

The simplest of Bible verses indicate and suggest that Christ was born on a Feast day....

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

The Feast Day of Tabernacles is celebrated in late Sept to Oct depending on the year.

 

[Georges]

and one more added item in regard to the post above. It is the same principle as why we should observe Sabbath worship instead of Sunday worship. The Sabbath is the 7th day, which represents the 7000th year. The 7th day represents the Messianic Millennial kingdom rest. That is why it is important to observe Sabbath worship, keeps the eyes on the future kingdom, and that is why it is important to observe Christ birth when it without a doubt happened. It happened on a feast day because of the prophetic implications it had.

wups....here come the Christians thinking to change the times and seasons......from God's command time to theirs....... :roll:

 

[Lewis]

I'm with Vic, who voted yes?