Bible Study Church Women Are to Be Well Behaved.

[for_his_glory]

Partnership with an apostle does not mean they act as an apostle. Is this a unique view? Maybe.

Thanks so much for sharing. Blessings.

Why so? Are we not all disciples of Christ? Aren't we all to learn and share with each other? Why do you not share?
A disciple is one who accepts and assists in the teaching the doctrines of Christ

 

[humble soul]

No wonder women quit Christianity. Maybe words like "patriarchy" are accurate after all.
Look out feminists! I might join your club after all. ?

 

[Fastfredy0]

A disciple is one who accepts and assists in the teaching the doctrines of Christ

Curious, where do you get this definition (specifically, a disciple assists in teaching)

The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-disciple.html

Disciples – disciples (“disciple” becomes a synonym for “believer” throughout the book of Acts; e.g., 6:1–2, 7; 9:1, 19, 26, 36, 38; 11:26, 29; 13:52; 15:10; 18:23, 27; 19:9, 30; 20:1; 21:4, 16), and that all true Christians pursue sanctification (1 Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:14–26; cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11).


Hermeneutics
Use didactic scripture to interpret narrative. For example, the narrative story of Jonah says the God repented but you will find that didactic scripture states God is immutable; that he cannot change His mind.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet [in the congregation]. This is an example of didactic scripture.

The following is an example of narrative interpretation:
Jesus was a man and he taught
God is a man and he teaches
The Holy Spirit is a man and He teaches
All the apostles were men (no women) and they taught
All the high priests were men and they taught
All the books of the Bible were written by men and inspired by a Man (the Spirit)
Jesus never said women should teach men
Thus, from these examples we can conclude that women should not teach men ... or rarely at most.
Aside: I see a danger in using narrative verse(s) as a source of doctrine. Example: They casts lots to determine a replacement for Judas ... therefore, when we want to know what God would have us do, we should casts lots. This is bad theology based on narrative scripture.

Aside 2: That being said, I do find For_His_Glory to have edifying and superior posts that I enjoy reading. (better than most of the men ...

 

[for_his_glory]

Curious, where do you get this definition (specifically, a disciple assists in teaching)

The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. The Greek term for “disciple” in the New Testament is mathetes, which means more than just “student” or “learner.” A disciple is a “follower,” someone who adheres completely to the teachings of another, making them his rule of life and conduct. https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-disciple.html

Disciples – disciples (“disciple” becomes a synonym for “believer” throughout the book of Acts; e.g., 6:1–2, 7; 9:1, 19, 26, 36, 38; 11:26, 29; 13:52; 15:10; 18:23, 27; 19:9, 30; 20:1; 21:4, 16), and that all true Christians pursue sanctification (1 Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:14–26; cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11).


Hermeneutics
Use didactic scripture to interpret narrative. For example, the narrative story of Jonah says the God repented but you will find that didactic scripture states God is immutable; that he cannot change His mind.

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet [in the congregation]. This is an example of didactic scripture.

The following is an example of narrative interpretation:
Jesus was a man and he taught
God is a man and he teaches
The Holy Spirit is a man and He teaches
All the apostles were men (no women) and they taught
All the high priests were men and they taught
All the books of the Bible were written by men and inspired by a Man (the Spirit)
Jesus never said women should teach men
Thus, from these examples we can conclude that women should not teach men ... or rarely at most.
Aside: I see a danger in using narrative verse(s) as a source of doctrine. Example: They casts lots to determine a replacement for Judas ... therefore, when we want to know what God would have us do, we should casts lots. This is bad theology based on narrative scripture.

Aside 2: That being said, I do find For_His_Glory to have edifying and superior posts that I enjoy reading. (better than most of the men ...

I looked the word discipleship up a long time ago in my topical index in my Bible and wrote an article on it. Says nothing about man or woman, but just being faithful servants of God. Here is the article I wrote from the definitions.

Discipleship:
Obedience
Faithfulness
Perseverance
Love
Humility
Bearing the Cross

Discipleship means those who follow the doctrines of Christ through Gods word and
Servitude means to wait on or serve. It often denotes people who dedicate themselves voluntarily to the service of another. The servants of God are devoted to his service. In this chapter you will learn what it takes to be a true servant of God through discipleship as the scriptures defines how we become that vessel of honor to God as we give him all the praise and glory for all we do for him in service.

DISCIPLESHIP

Obedience: Willing to do what one is asked according to the will of God

Gods will is for all of us to love unconditionally as Christ loves us this way. We need to be obedient to one another needs, concerns and passions through being true to God through obedience to his word and to know his greatest commandment is love. God will put people in our path, but it is up to us to reach out to those people with the word of God and not only through word, but through action of his word as we humble ourselves to reach out to others.
(John 14:15-17; Matthew 22:36-40)

Faithfulness: True and trustworthy in the performance of duty

Our works are not our own, but the works that Jesus started and left for us to continue. When we follow in the steps of Jesus we maintain a faithful heart and others will come to the Lord by us allowing the light of Christ shine through us as we help meet the needs of those who are struggling with their own lives and need our help. There is no one that is unworthy of the love of Christ as we are all his creation, but not all will hear his calling.
(Matthew 5:16; Proverbs 13:17; John 14:15; Matthew 10:24-25; John 14:16-17; Matthew 22:36-40)

Perseverance: To persist in any purpose or idea, to strive in spite of difficulties

Hold fast to your convictions of truth no matter what tries to come against you. When you know truth through the Spirit of God it is your responsibility to take Gods word out into the world with the Holy Spirit guiding you. Jesus said that if the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. Never worry about what man can do to you for the words sake, just be concerned you are doing the works for the Lord and not yourself so you will bring glory and honor unto His name. Jesus never said it would be an easy walk, but if we are truly walking in the Lord then we should take no concern for our own life as we have the promise of eternal life with the Father.
(John 8:31; John 15:18-23; Matthew 10:28)

Love: Intense affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties

It seems pretty easy to love those who love us and hate those who hate us as this is human nature, but we who have answered that calling of God now have a Spiritual nature that can love even our enemies. We can not shove the word of God on anyone and expect them to know the love of God, but if they refuse to listen then we are also instructed to wipe the dust from our feet and move on. I do not think we should write them off completely as many of us refused at first, but to pray for them and move on as Jesus said to wipe the dust from our feet, which means to move on to those who have ears to hear Gods call to repentance. God wants all his creation to come back to him, but also knows those who will refuse.
(Luke 9:5; 2 Peter 3:9; John 13:34-35)

Humility: To be made humble, marked by meekness or modesty

The cross is just one example of humility where Jesus humbled himself through all the persecutions he faced even unto death that he presented himself no greater than those he died for. God said there is no greater love than a man lay his life down for another. This is what Jesus did was lay his life down so we could have life eternal with him. Followers of Christ should also have this meekness that we would be willing to do such a thing as this if it would bring a lost one to Christ.
(John 10:15; John 15:13; Matthew 10:24)

Humbleness is yielding ourselves to God which allows us to put him first above ourselves and family so we can be more obedient to his will. We know that Gods will is to love unconditionally and when we can love in such a way we become not only a blessing unto God, but a greater blessing to our families. We give up trying to do everything our own way and allow the righteousness of God work in us and through us to be a more effective member of his body and receive the greater blessings of his love and compassion.
(Luke 14:26, 33)

Bearing the Cross: Denying ones self for the purpose of duty

Denying ones self is hard to do as our carnal mind wants to reason out and rationalize those things of God and what his purpose is for us, but if we deny this flesh and allow Gods Spirit to dwell in us then we will know the purpose of his will and take action on that purpose without hesitation. Jesus prayed that if it was Gods will that he would take the cup from him, but Jesus knew what he had to do and went forward with no thought for his own life. We bare many crosses in our own lives as the world comes against us as Satan will try anything or use anyone to come against us, but we need to stay focused on the job before us as a disciple of Jesus and keeping ourselves in his servitude.
(Romans 8:5-8; Mark 14:35-36; Matthew 16:24-25)

 

[daninthelionsden]

In 1 Timothy 2:9-14, this is part of Paul addressing the church.

If we only read only 1 Timothy 2:9-14, we don't get the complete part of Paul's message. Here is 1 Timothy 2:1-15 (NIV):

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


*Let's remember that Paul was an educated Roman citizen and wrote like the philosopher's did. His format of writing is very much an A1, B1, C1, C2, B2, A2 type of format. Meaning, he'd make a point, make another point, then another, and then circle back around to those points.

In the first paragraph, we see it referencing all people. Peace and "quietness" can mean to be in compliance with the law rather than in rebellion against it. It isn't only the physical act of not talking.

Let's go down to the next paragraph, it mentions men specifically. It is possible that men of this time were arguing with one another rather than praising and worshiping God. Some people of this time also worshiped other god's by shouting loudly and wailing. It's possible that could be why this was discouraged.

Then, we get down to women (see that this is plural - women), to dress modestly. Keep in mind, we are talking about churches that were surrounded by cultures of those worshiping gods and goddesses and some would adorn themselves to go to the temples or worship gods/goddesses. We had cults like that of Dionysus with cross dressing, drunkenness, orgies, and the like. Some prostitutes of the time would also adorn their hair ornaments of some kind and this could possibly send a confusing message coming to a Christian congregation in this type of dress.

Considering the culture and time is important, too.

What gets more interesting is we see that it's not women anymore, it's "a woman," so who are we talking about? This woman was said to be the woman of Ephesus. Women in this day and age were not privileged enough to have an education. Women were often looked down upon as less than human, basically worthless, like an animal, and were not often taught.

This is discouraging a false teacher within the church - a woman that may not even fully understood that she was saying things that weren't correct and possibly leading others astray. Many pastors would discourage that kind of thing in their own congregations today as we can agree that false teaching is not good.

Instead, Paul does something awesome! He gives this woman an opportunity to learn, but in order to do so, she needs to be quiet in order to learn and that way isn't spreading more false teaching.

This was gracious of Paul if we are considering others like Philetus, Alexander, and Hymenaeus (men that were knowingly doing what was considered wrong).

A little further on, we see that it makes an interesting mention of Adam and Eve, which is a story that most Christians easily understand. However, this isn't a war against women, it is an example of another woman that was deceived that a group of believers could understand.

These words were for a specific place in time for a specific situation.

Listed above, was also listed other women of the Bible that were deaconesses and such. Not to also mention Miriam and Deborah on top of that. So many amazing women in the Bible that were given Biblical authority. Why would they be in there if it was sorely against God's word? There's no better way for a church to be vulnerable for spiritual attack than to mute all the women.

I understand this is a traditional belief for most churches and a lot of them still stick beside it, but in my personal experience and belief, it's spiritually unsound to believe that women shouldn't teach in a church or have any spiritual authority.

Women had no rights when These things were instructed. Today, especially in these uncertain times, I believe the Lord will raise up whomever He will to meet the spiritual challenges. If He said "even the rocks" then why not the women of today?

 

[for_his_glory]

In 1 Timothy 2 Paul was addressing a particular problem specific to the church at Ephesus in which false teaching was resulting in inappropriate behavior. Paul was not giving a universal order to all women of all time not to teach nor have authority over a man, but was ordering that women do not assume superiority over men or promote false teachings.

Women should learn first being educated in the faith before they teach. It is clear from Paul's other letters that he supported women teachers and leaders as I already gave in the list I posted. Priscilla was a minister of the Gospel helping her husband to teach Apollos, Acts 18:26 and in 2 Timothy 4:19 Paul ask Timothy to greet Priscilla and Aquila.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing His creation.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth.

This curse has affected all aspects of creation, from the ground itself (infested with weeds and thorns) to human relationships. (I say temporary, because in Christ this curse is removed, as we shall see later on).

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positionally. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment. Galatians 3:26-29

A woman should never have superior authority over a man, but be equal with man in teaching the word of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Women had no rights when These things were instructed. Today, especially in these uncertain times, I believe the Lord will raise up whomever He will to meet the spiritual challenges. If He said "even the rocks" then why not the women of today?

This reminded me of Acts 2:17-18 as God will use whomever he chooses.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[Jacob62]

I'm only accountable to God and what He has called and anointed me to preach/teach through the equipping of the Holy Spirit who has anointed me to teach.

I am only a vessel as there are no man or woman vessels, but only the body of Christ in submission to the Father through Christ Jesus as those who have received Christ through what I have taught them of Him, the glory all goes to the Father.

When women try to teach, all they are able to do is:

1.) Use their feelings to "explain things."
2.) Restate and embellish what they heard someone else say.
3.) Talk about their own life.
4.) Admit to not knowing everything.
5.) Try to relate everything to everything.
6.) Try real hard to make some sort of a personal relationship with their listeners.
7.) Just talk with words and ideas, and show nothing material.

True?

 

[Hopeful]

Women had no rights when These things were instructed. Today, especially in these uncertain times, I believe the Lord will raise up whomever He will to meet the spiritual challenges. If He said "even the rocks" then why not the women of today?

Why not the men, instead of relying on the first sinner's descendants?

 

[daninthelionsden]

Why not the men, instead of relying on the first sinner's descendants?

Why does it have to be an either/or?

 

[Jacob62]

Pro 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Adding "her" is adding to the word. I would be careful doing that. If a fool is teaching a woman then they both become fools as she becomes unlearned having no truth found in her.

Lol. A desperate attempt to make the verse gender specific. I agree women never need to become unlearned.

 

[Hopeful]

Why does it have to be an either/or?

Because the bible says so.
Do you believe the bible is the word of God?
I do.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Because the bible says so.
Do you believe the bible is the word of God?
I do.

I believe the Bible is indeed the Word of God. With that said, there is no one I've ever met who obeys every instruction in it. Not even you. Phrases like "I have unconditional love" are thrown around as fact, when in reality, I've never met anyone who practiced it. We strive to obey yet we don't.
This is what I've seen time after time. Legalism often leads to self-righteousness. Self-righteousness often leads to judgment and judgment leads to condemnation. Love does not reside there.
As this world crumbles, I believe the Lord has and will call up anyone in any situation to rise up and speak/do His will.
If you are in a boat in the middle of an ocean with 6 disobedient/immature Christian men and one obedient/mature Christian woman. Which will be the voice/spiritual leader there? The same vice-versa? If the person speaks the Truth of God, that is what I listen for.

 

[Jacob62]

I believe the Bible is indeed the Word of God. With that said, there is no one I've ever met who obeys every instruction in it. Not even you. Phrases like "I have unconditional love" are thrown around as fact, when in reality, I've never met anyone who practiced it. We strive to obey yet we don't.
This is what I've seen time after time. Legalism often leads to self-righteousness. Self-righteousness often leads to judgment and judgment leads to condemnation. Love does not reside there.
As this world crumbles, I believe the Lord has and will call up anyone in any situation to rise up and speak/do His will.
If you are in a boat in the middle of an ocean with 6 disobedient/immature Christian men and one obedient/mature Christian woman. Which will be the voice/spiritual leader there? The same vice-versa? If the person speaks the Truth of God, that is what I listen for.

Those who claim to have been "called up" or "raised up" by God are most likely babbling tongues speakers with a poor comprehension of Scripture. They like to claim various "movements of God," where in fact any such "movement" is mere emotional froth specific to a church meeting.

 

[for_his_glory]

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Micah 6:4 Miriam was one third of Israel's leadership team

Judges 4-5 Deborah was used of God as a chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades

Joshua 2; Matthew 1:5 God used a prostitute in Jericho Rahab and grafted her into the lineage of Christ.

Matthew 1:5 God redeemed a foreign widow named Ruth and birthed King David through her offspring

The book of Esther God made Esther a queen just in time to save all of Israel

2 Chronicles 34:21-33 God used Huldah the prophetess to instruct the king

It was Greek philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and Hesiod that infiltrated Jewish religious tradition and culture perspective on women as the Rabbis didn't get their ideas about women from God, but from these Greek philosophers.

Homer portrayed women as objects, war prizes, pawns and possessions, "the cause of all conflict and suffering in the world. Hammurabi discusses the legal rights of women in terms of chattel, similar to slaves. Hesiod claimed that woman was created as man's eternal curse. These Hellenized thinkers had a rather low opinion of women and because of them every major western society has marginalized women since. Scripture on the other hand, as I have shown here in a few scriptures and Paul adds many more in the NT like Priscilla (Acts 18:26); Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3); Junia (Romans 16:7); that women are just as important as men are in God's ministry.

Genesis 1:28 God gave both the man and the woman to rule over His creation. Genesis 2:20-24 shows how God created woman from the rib of Adam and places her in the garden as his equal as she is called his helper as she is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.

For more on this go to www.biblestudytools/ Does Scripture Oppress or Liberate Women

 

[Jacob62]

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Micah 6:4 Miriam was one third of Israel's leadership team

Judges 4-5 Deborah was used of God as a chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades

Joshua 2; Matthew 1:5 God used a prostitute in Jericho Rahab and grafted her into the lineage of Christ.

Matthew 1:5 God redeemed a foreign widow named Ruth and birthed King David through her offspring

The book of Esther God made Esther a queen just in time to save all of Israel

2 Chronicles 34:21-33 God used Huldah the prophetess to instruct the king

It was Greek philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and Hesiod that infiltrated Jewish religious tradition and culture perspective on women as the Rabbis didn't get their ideas about women from God, but from these Greek philosophers.

Homer portrayed women as objects, war prizes, pawns and possessions, "the cause of all conflict and suffering in the world. Hammurabi discusses the legal rights of women in terms of chattel, similar to slaves. Hesiod claimed that woman was created as man's eternal curse. These Hellenized thinkers had a rather low opinion of women and because of them every major western society has marginalized women since. Scripture on the other hand, as I have shown here in a few scriptures and Paul adds many more in the NT like Priscilla (Acts 18:26); Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3); Junia (Romans 16:7); that women are just as important as men are in God's ministry.

Genesis 1:28 God gave both the man and the woman to rule over His creation. Genesis 2:20-24 shows how God created woman from the rib of Adam and places her in the garden as his equal as she is called his helper as she is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.

For more on this go to www.biblestudytools/ Does Scripture Oppress or Liberate Women

Do you prophecy? Yes? No?

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you prophecy? Yes? No?

Yes

 

[Jacob62]

Yes

You speculate, but give nothing of material significance. You just feel like you prophecy. Though, I am sure you are sincere.

A true prophet will not be a slave to defending herself, as you have consistently done in here. A true prophet will not ignore God's appointed authority of a Man over a woman.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Yes

Do you prophecy? Yes? No?

for_his_glory
Define what you mean by prophesying? (dictionary: to utter by or as if by divine inspiration.)
and what specific information have you been given by God?

 

[Jacob62]

for_his_glory
Define what you mean by prophesying? (dictionary: to utter by or as if by divine inspiration.)
and what specific information have you been given by God?

Specific information is in the Scripture. The pedigree of any prophet is whether or not their utterances come to pass, and are in compliance with all of the Word of God through Christ.

God makes this very clear.