G
gingercat
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
Please bear with me Ikari,
So you believe that all English versions are wrong interpretation?
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Bible Study Colossians 1:16-20 Question
- Thread starter Relic
- Start date
Please bear with me Ikari,
So you believe that all English versions are wrong interpretation?
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
1 John 4:8 (King James Version) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Basically... most of the passages in the King James Version, New King James Version, New International Version, ect, are fine and translated correctly. But when it comes to the words, Aiwn, Sheol, Gehenna, ect. the translators refuse to translate these words correctly. The translators use their own beliefs when translating and therefore they distort the Word of God.
One blatant, and outright twisting of the Holy Scriptures is translating the Greek word, "Gehenna" as Hell. Gehenna is a proper name, so why not just leave it Gehenna? There is no justifiable reason to translated it as Hell.
Some Bibles which properly translated these words are:
Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
The Emphatic Diaglott, 1912 edition (Greek/English Interlinear)
The Holy Bible in Modern English (Fenton), 1903)
The New Covenant, 1884
The New Testament in Modern Speech, 1910
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, 1976
The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958
The New Testament a Translation, 1938
The Companion Bible, 1990 A King James Reference Bible
See my paper "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural," found on our home page.
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gingercat
Guest
You are giving me something to think about. Thank you for your information.
So you are saying that only the interpretation of hell is wrong?
So you are saying that only the interpretation of hell is wrong?
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
I am more than happy to help. But really know that it is God giving you something to think about, not me. I am only a vessel.
That is the largest error but every Bible has it's problems, even the ones that I've listed. No, Bible is the Inspired Word of God. Only the original Greek and Hebrew Scriptures are.
G
gingercat
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
What am I supposed to do? I cannot read the Greek and Hebrew.
R
Rick W
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
I don't know.
How could I? :P
Praise God Christ doesn't have the same attitude.
Gendou Ikari said:
No offense but are you being sarcastic or do you really believe this?
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
Well, I can't read Greek or Hebrew and I manage just fine. You can download the Ultra-Literal Translation Version. It gives the Greek and Hebrew words, translations, ect.
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Takes some time getting used to though but it really helps.
You're most welcome. :-D
All right, I was wrong with that attack. I apologize. Forgive me? :smt006
I really believe it.
"That the world created by God is the best all possible worlds, is clear for the following reason. If a better world than the one willed by God were possible, then a will better than the divine will would also have to be possible. For indisputably that divine will is better which chooses what is better. But if a better will is possible, then so this being who could express this better will. And therefore this being would be more perfect and better than God. But this is a contradiction; for God is 'omnitudo realitatis." -- Immanuel Kant
That pretty much sums it up for me. The World, with all the murders, rapes, ect., is exactly what God wants. Now, don't get me wrong. God hates Evil but He uses it for a Good purpose. Please forgive me for no being able to go into this now; it'll take too much time and stray off topic. But this Scripture sums it up pretty well.
Genesis 50:20 (King James Version) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
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Rick W
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
:smt023
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
Let it be known PotLuck that I was not apologizing for my views, just for that statement.
Gendou Ikari said:
Gendou,
In the first place, if you are going to use peoples excuse for "Choosing to ignore and transgress against God" as it being the will of God :o , then you are TWISTING the interpretation of SCRIPTURE!
God Hates evil, yes, However, He does not "want" for us to sin! :-?
You are perverting the truth about what that scripture says by your wording! That verse does NOT say that God forced those people to be evil against Joseph!
You make it out as if these people had no choice in the matter to do evil or not, to whether they threw Joseph into that well to die!, or to stop being jealous over the fact that his father favored him! :-?
Stop demeaning the fact that God gave us all freedom to choose between what thoughts we listen to and what actions we take in any particular incident in our lives!!!
Listen Gendou, Those brothers of Joseph had evil thoughts against Joseph because they CHOSE to be jealous over the fact that he had a favor with his father. If you think God made those brothers of Joseph act evil against him you've got so much to learn about the behaviors of man as opposed to the good will of God that is OFFERED to them as an alternative behavior!
The whole bible was written on the stance that man's behavior can be transformed by the renewing of the mind by seeking after the "good" Will of God! And it shows evidence of the fact that there is a battle of good vs. evil in existence. Yes, God created all things Gendou, but he didn't do it to use us like puppets or to force us to our knees in order to get to know him! God is not that so arrogant or so cruel that we should be so humbled that we are forced to praise him out of our choice to act in wickedness, no... We have a choice to be wicked or not! And if you don't think some people don't love being wicked then you are naive as all heck!
We have a choice! Don't you know Gendou, that some people actually love being tortured? They are called massochists! And some people actually love to torture! They are are called Sadistic! Oh Yes! We have freedom of choice!
Genesis 50:20 (King James Version) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive
ye thought! : That term shows clearly that man is allowed to think as they want to think! An act of freedom of choice to think as they chose to think!
but God meant it unto good This term means that God brought good out of it.
Do think about this example that follows:
This child , Johnny, becomes so very jealous of his own dog one day, because his dad brought home for the dog a really cool dog toy but dad didn't bring anything home that day for his own child, Johnny.
Well, Johnny gets really upset, so he decides to shoot his dog Spotty in the leg because he wanted all the attention and wanted to get rid of the dog once and for all.
Well after shooting Spotty, little Johnny gets worried because Spotty is really hurt, and so then, Johnny goes and hides the dog in the woods someplace.
So then he goes home and tells his dad Spotty is missing. Dad was sad because Spotty was a very cool dog and brought much joy and laughter into the family. Dad misses Spotty very much.
Then a year later, dad finds out their dog has been adopted by one of the neighbors down the street. To his surprise and being in utter shock, dad turns to his son and says to him, 'Listen you, there is no mistake about it. That IS our dog Spotty, no other dog in the world could possibly have the exact spot like that on their coat. And the neighbor who has taken this dog in said they found him in the woods wounded from a b b gun shot to the leg on the very same day he was missing from our home! Now what have you to say for yourself?'
Now tell me Gendou, from reading the above example, Is that boy going to say, God made me do it? Or, Is he going to say, The Devil made me do it?, OR is he going to say, I did it on my own choosing. I made a mistake and listened to and acted on the evil instead of the good?
Give me a break Gendou! We all have freedom to chose! We all have free will to chose to follow whatever path we chose to walk down!
Did that father force that child to shoot the dog in the leg? Did that father force that child to ditch the dog in the woods? Did that father force that child of his to be jealous of his own dog?
NO!
You can't say that God uses murders, rapes, etc., as things God wants! in order for Him to be able to USE IT for Good purposes! :o
Gendou Ikari said:
That 's a bunch of twisted perverted bunk!
Truth is Gendou, that the solution to a way out of that mess that carnal thinking leads to is to turn toward the good will of God to get out of that mess! It is a free choice. We are not forced to make any choice.
God does not force us to mess up so that he can then force us to clean up our mess! :roll:
For every bad deed, of course there is a solution!
The solution to all of the problems in life is to turn toward the good will of God, to seek after His Good Will that is being offered to us.
The point is that some people are just too stubborn to listen and have to learn the hard way because they are a bunch of bone heads who don't follow good counsel/advice! Instead they think they can ignore good advice/counsel and do whatever they dam well please. They in turn... learn the hard way! IF ONLY THEY LISTEN! And the fact is Gendou! As I pointed out clearly above, some people just love being tortured and some people just love torturing others. Massochists and Sadistics. They do exist! Like it or not! :x
You think God forces people not to listen? You are wrong if you do! Yes, God knows beforehand the thoughts of men. He knows whether they will choose to be stubborn idiots or not! However, He will not FORCE Them to be idiots! HE ALLOWS them to choose whatever path they want to follow. Be it blindly or not! God does not restrict us from FREEDOM TO CHOSE.
There is WISE counsel for us to follow. And look how many times in the books in the bible where God is grieved from the hardhearted and stubborn people choosing to follow after strange things and strange gods!
God is a scolding God, yes, and He will Parent us all. But he will not force us to behave according to his Good purpose or according to an evil purpose! That is up the person to choose! . And that is what Jesus taught while He was in the flesh on this earth. He taught about the importance of choice and preparation! He did not teach that God forces us to do anything!
Choose wisely! That is the theme throughout many of the books in the bible!
The bible is written as a book of counsel for us all. It is not a book that tells us we are forced to chose evil or forced to do good. NO! It is a book in which it tells us that we have a choice between the good will of God and the evil will of His opposer, which is given the title evil/Satan/Devil. And it it is a book which teaches us the absolute laws pertaining to both the good and the evil things. God has the authority over all of it! But we have the choice to choose which consequences will be brought about in our lives!
No one is saying that God is not the creator of good and evil! Because the fact is that He is! What is being taught throughout the bible is that God creates it all, but we have a choice to chose which path to follow after! And it is determinate of which path we follow after that determines what place we end up in through all of eternity! OUR life choices determining our Eternal outcome! You can't erase the imprint of the past, but you can create the imprint on the future. Jesus says to Go and sin no more, for a reason that has an eternal effect! If we sin no more, we are purified FROM sin. We have victory IN the fact that we chose to followed Him. We then have access into that place where there is not sin, heaven. Sin being outside of the gates of it! You can't deny that and you can't say that sin is no more in existence. Sin is outside of the gates of heaven. Heaven is that place in those who are called and those who listen to that call, those who take heed to that call, are striving to be.
See your problem, Gendou, is that you think that we think God is the one who is forcing us to eternal torture. But in fact! It is those souls who turn away from God that are doing it to themselves!
No Gendou, Satan will not ever be redeemed from his choice to place himself above God! Nor will Satan be reconciled to having a place in heaven. He is forever going to be in that lake of fire OUTSIDE OF the gates of heaven in his sadistic/masochistic place of torture where he belongs... OUTSIDE OF the heavens.
So stop trying to make the bible out to be as if we have no free choice!
OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS NOT Going to force us to chose. That would be making us all out to be nothing but pawns in a game of chess and God is just having some Star Trek Game of little puppet people vs. the Giant alien child manipulator! In so doing Gendou, you limit God and you limit us. And that is wrong Gendou!
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G
gingercat
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
Now you are losing me with this one Ikari. I thought I may consider your suggestions.
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
I not going to dispute your philosophy. I just try and go by what the Word of God says.
Romans 9:21 (King James Version) Hath not the potter[GOD] power over the clay[MAN], of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour[MAKE GOOD], and another unto dishonour[MAKE EVIL]?
John 6:44 (King James Version) No man[OF HIS OWN FREE-WILL] can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jeremiah 10:23 (King James Version) O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man[BY HIS OWN FREE-WILL] that walketh to direct his steps.
Romans 7:15 (Concordant Liternal New Testament) For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing.
Romans 7:19 (Concordant Literal New Testament) For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice.
Paul states that, "not what I will[By my Free-Will?], this I am putting into practice." I don't think Paul could have made this any clearer.
Perhaps I should explain, GingerCat.
Any explaination I give won't be satisfactory. So I'm going to see what God has to say about this.
Romans 8:20 (King James Version) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
We, Humanity, the Creature, was made subject to vanity by God.
Jeremiah 18:4 (King James Version) And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
God first mars us, creating us subject to vanity. Then, God draws us to Jesus Christ, fixing the vessel.
Don't worry GingerCat most people fight God, before giving up there belief in Free-Will. God is still in the process of showing me that I have no Free-Will. I kind of know that I don't possess Free-Will but every fiber of my being doesn't, which is probably why God still needs to teach me.
Romans 11:32 (King James Version) For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
And finally the totality of why God really planned for us to sin.
Genesis 50:20 (King James Version) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
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gingercat
Guest
ok Ikari,
If we don't have free will then why God is giving us so many rebukes when we do evil?
If we don't have free will then why God is giving us so many rebukes when we do evil?
R
Rick W
Guest
PotLuck said:
R
Rick W
Guest
Hey. Did you know God hates trees?
It's true. And there's scripture to prove it.
Dan 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and a holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field;
Deu 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
Jdg 6:25 And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that is by it:
1Ki 16:33 And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.
2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
Dan 4:14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mar 11:8 And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strewed them in the way.
Jer 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Isa 18:5 For before the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
:-D
It's true. And there's scripture to prove it.
Dan 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and a holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field;
Deu 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.
Jdg 6:25 And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that is by it:
1Ki 16:33 And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.
2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
Dan 4:14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mar 11:8 And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strewed them in the way.
Jer 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Isa 18:5 For before the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
:-D
gingercat said:
You got that right! Why would God even bother to warn us of any wrong doing IF we didn't have free will to make our own choices?
Gendou, inserts his own interpretation of the scriptures. It is sad that Gendou thinks we don't have free will but God will make us go through all kinds of hell in order to bring us to reconciliation to him. That makes no sense at all and Gendou has a very very poor concept of a loving God. The God I have learned about does not force me to do anything! He draws me , but I still have the choice to choose my own path, be it in accordance to His good will he is offering me, or whether it be to turn away from him and be taken in by the lure and attraction of the sin of the devil. The choice is there!
Gendou, when you learn that you are free, you will see that God doesn't make us as if we were a bunch of robots who have no choice in anything, like you think he does.
I don't know about you, but the God I've grown to know in my 53 years on this earth, I've come to know a God's love for us, aside from HIS awesome creation of all other things, is not different than any "loving" and " well grounded in Godly morals and principles" parent is toward their children when they are growing up in life.
Gendou, your interpretations are so full of holes it's not funny! And you come back ignoring the proof others give to you and you come back with some more perverted interpretations of the verses that you ignored. And even some "self" revisions" of scripture because you messed up in the first interpretation of it, so you come back with another self interpretation . :o
If we don't have free will then why is there any reason to be reconciled for something God forced us to do in the first place?
You think we are puppets that have no say so about anything and that we are in some kind of a game God is playing?
You think God made us sin machines so that we can suffer the ungodly torture of living in sin and have to live through the consequences of sin just for us to come to terms of reconciliation after all that we suffered through? That makes no sense and is totally out of line with the scriptures in the bible! Gendou, your theory contradicts everything God stands for! Every word of warning and every word of correction and terms of consequences that God spoke of in the bible!
We are not robots that God plays with like some kid with is little plastic toys. Gendou, your theory is messed up bad.
And you need to learn how to interpret scripture so it doesn't contradict the rest of the other scriptures in the bible!
God draws us to him yes, but he does not force us to accept his drawing us. Many people have turned their backs on that drawing. Peter denied Christ three times! Judas betrayed Jesus for a pittance of money. King David killed so he could hide his affair with Bathsheeba. (THAT IS NOT THE WILL GOD HAD INTENDED FOR MAN! )
They used their own wills freely to turn away from God and turn toward sin OF WHICH GOD IS TOTALLY AGAINST FOR US TO FOLLOW AFTER!
I could go on and on with MORALS and plots that were against Godly character to many more a story in the bible, but you just come back with garbage and twisted versions of scripture that is taken out of context and perverted with your own contorted version of what they mean.
Even Jesus showed us that the will must be given up to God. NOt that He will force us to do it! Jesus even gave his will over to the Father. He said, your will not mine! (meaning, not his carnal minded will of the flesh! )
Gendou, where you are coming from.... is a messed up view of scripture. And you are one sick puppy that I think now is only here to confuse matters and throw people off of truth in the word. It appears to me that you are here to betray Christians into thinking something that IS NOT in the bible!
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PotLuck,
that is so funny!
:
====================
But I must say this..... in regards to one of the scriptures you posted, Don't you know..... John 15:6 contradicts what Gendou is talking about when he says God is a loving God that isn't horrible and wouldn't torture us. BUT, then Gendou says that God is a God that doesn't give us free will? :crazyeyes: Well, I don't want to be tortured and I want to choose God. But if God doesn't give us free will, then how can I choose to give my will over to God or not? Oh shucks. Gendou.... messed up the whole bible! :smt022
Now why would God go and throw someone in fire if they don't the have free will to choose to abide in HIM? Isn't that like a mean horrible torturous God to do something like that? I mean, come on..... You mean God punishes us for being bad but it's a punishment because he made us without the free will to choose to not abide in him? Wait a minute. Gendou said we don't have free will to choose. so then why would a loving God be so cruel as to threaten us with words like those consequences IF we didn't have a choice in it in the first place? OUCH! I don't want to be cast into fire because I had no say so in the first place if I was to abide not in him!
: Why would God ask me us to abide in him if he didn't give us the choice to do so anyway? IF I CHOSE TO BELIEVE GENDOU, then I have a choice! Right? But then Gendou says we don't have any free choices in life> That we are made to be sinning machines.
get it.... Gendou is so messing up the scripture in the bible, He makes it so people won't know what to think anymore! But Gendou says God is a loving God and His God wouldn't be so mean as to torture us.... No wait...... But God says we will be cast into the fire.... OUCH! That would hurt really bad! So then, one must ask this question, since Gendou says God is not a horrible mean God who would torture people, One must ask...Why is God wanting to be hurting me, POT LUCK!!! :smt022 IF one was to believe Gendou, then one must ask...Why is God mean no matter what we do in life? One must ask...Why won't God give me a choice of whether I want to suffer or not? One must as ...why is God so mean, PotLuck? :smt022
Gendou wants us to believe him and fall for all the perverted scripture interpretations he has posted here, but Gendou's theory is so messed up he doesn't even see the contradictions he's throwing out in front of everyone here in this forum! I suspect he is either very misguided or he is intentionally trying to mess up peoples minds with confusions and contradictions of scripture. :silly:
:shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly:
Peace, God be with you! :-D
I'd pray for you but then if we have no free will my prayers wouldn't matter anyway! :silly:
Gendou, you are not proving anything to us. Sorry son, but your theory is all messed up. It's really looking wacko to me and many other people who are children of God, called according to (that means IN accordance to, meaning in agreement with) His purpose. And Believe me Gendou, God's purpose for his creation (man on earth) is not one of evil intent. It is the will of Satan that is of evil intent. God wants us to choose between the good and the evil in this life. Now how can we choose between the evil and the good if God doesn't give us any free will? Gendou, you need to go back to the drawing board and re-read the whole bible IN FULL context to itself and stop contradicting the HOLY Spirit so much. I suggest you take some bible lessons from someone other than those UR cult people you've been listening to because they are blowing your mind worse than any dope addict on pot can ever do. :-? At least when you get over the addiction to dope, you are again able to think clearly. But with a cult.... they really mess up your mind! I'd run
from those people as fast as I can, if I were you!
.
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PotLuck,
that is so funny!
:====================
But I must say this..... in regards to one of the scriptures you posted, Don't you know..... John 15:6 contradicts what Gendou is talking about when he says God is a loving God that isn't horrible and wouldn't torture us. BUT, then Gendou says that God is a God that doesn't give us free will? :crazyeyes: Well, I don't want to be tortured and I want to choose God. But if God doesn't give us free will, then how can I choose to give my will over to God or not? Oh shucks. Gendou.... messed up the whole bible! :smt022
Now why would God go and throw someone in fire if they don't the have free will to choose to abide in HIM? Isn't that like a mean horrible torturous God to do something like that? I mean, come on..... You mean God punishes us for being bad but it's a punishment because he made us without the free will to choose to not abide in him? Wait a minute. Gendou said we don't have free will to choose. so then why would a loving God be so cruel as to threaten us with words like those consequences IF we didn't have a choice in it in the first place? OUCH! I don't want to be cast into fire because I had no say so in the first place if I was to abide not in him!
: Why would God ask me us to abide in him if he didn't give us the choice to do so anyway? IF I CHOSE TO BELIEVE GENDOU, then I have a choice! Right? But then Gendou says we don't have any free choices in life> That we are made to be sinning machines. get it.... Gendou is so messing up the scripture in the bible, He makes it so people won't know what to think anymore! But Gendou says God is a loving God and His God wouldn't be so mean as to torture us.... No wait...... But God says we will be cast into the fire.... OUCH! That would hurt really bad! So then, one must ask this question, since Gendou says God is not a horrible mean God who would torture people, One must ask...Why is God wanting to be hurting me, POT LUCK!!! :smt022 IF one was to believe Gendou, then one must ask...Why is God mean no matter what we do in life? One must ask...Why won't God give me a choice of whether I want to suffer or not? One must as ...why is God so mean, PotLuck? :smt022
Gendou wants us to believe him and fall for all the perverted scripture interpretations he has posted here, but Gendou's theory is so messed up he doesn't even see the contradictions he's throwing out in front of everyone here in this forum! I suspect he is either very misguided or he is intentionally trying to mess up peoples minds with confusions and contradictions of scripture. :silly:
:shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly: :shocked!: :silly:
Peace, God be with you! :-D
I'd pray for you but then if we have no free will my prayers wouldn't matter anyway! :silly:
Gendou, you are not proving anything to us. Sorry son, but your theory is all messed up. It's really looking wacko to me and many other people who are children of God, called according to (that means IN accordance to, meaning in agreement with) His purpose. And Believe me Gendou, God's purpose for his creation (man on earth) is not one of evil intent. It is the will of Satan that is of evil intent. God wants us to choose between the good and the evil in this life. Now how can we choose between the evil and the good if God doesn't give us any free will? Gendou, you need to go back to the drawing board and re-read the whole bible IN FULL context to itself and stop contradicting the HOLY Spirit so much. I suggest you take some bible lessons from someone other than those UR cult people you've been listening to because they are blowing your mind worse than any dope addict on pot can ever do. :-? At least when you get over the addiction to dope, you are again able to think clearly. But with a cult.... they really mess up your mind! I'd run
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R
Rick W
Guest
The debate of freewill and predestination can and is debated rightly (I believe) with scripture.
Trying to explain the two?
Here's an example of philosophical thinking on the subject.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/foreknow.htm#section1
I'm not about to get into all that. :o
So, for me I'll just be satisfied with God knowing beforehand the choices I would make and let it go at that. Sure, there is scripture where God "brought up" someone to do a righteous task such as John the Baptist and some to be a vessel of wrath such as the Pharaoh of Egypt in Exodus. But does that apply to all of us? I don't think so. Yet I believe God knows what we are going to choose, no question about it. We hear "God doesn't want a bunch of robots" and I believe that. That would be an unsatisfying love I would think. Rather empty too.
Did God make Job think and believe as he did since he refused to curse God even under the pressure of his wife to do so? I honestly believe Job was left to his own heart, to make the choice not to curse God even under extreme misery. When God settled the matter He never told Job why but instead made it absolutely clear to Job just who he was dealing with.
Satan threw everything he had at Job. But Job kept his faith that God is righteous even when his friends tried to convince him he deserved everything he got for his friends believed it was God judging Job for sin in his life. But Job persisted in his faith and for that faith Job was a righteous man.
Job had freewill otherwise the book of Job has no value.
And is there predestination? Sure, why not? I don't think it's a case of either/or anyway but both.
Trying to explain the two?
Here's an example of philosophical thinking on the subject.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/foreknow.htm#section1
I'm not about to get into all that. :o
So, for me I'll just be satisfied with God knowing beforehand the choices I would make and let it go at that. Sure, there is scripture where God "brought up" someone to do a righteous task such as John the Baptist and some to be a vessel of wrath such as the Pharaoh of Egypt in Exodus. But does that apply to all of us? I don't think so. Yet I believe God knows what we are going to choose, no question about it. We hear "God doesn't want a bunch of robots" and I believe that. That would be an unsatisfying love I would think. Rather empty too.
Did God make Job think and believe as he did since he refused to curse God even under the pressure of his wife to do so? I honestly believe Job was left to his own heart, to make the choice not to curse God even under extreme misery. When God settled the matter He never told Job why but instead made it absolutely clear to Job just who he was dealing with.
Satan threw everything he had at Job. But Job kept his faith that God is righteous even when his friends tried to convince him he deserved everything he got for his friends believed it was God judging Job for sin in his life. But Job persisted in his faith and for that faith Job was a righteous man.
Job had freewill otherwise the book of Job has no value.
And is there predestination? Sure, why not? I don't think it's a case of either/or anyway but both.