Colossians 2

[jocor]

This chapter is often used to show how the Feast Days and Sabbaths were only shadows that were fulfilled when the reality or substance came; that being Yeshua (Jesus). I do not believe that interpretation is correct and offer the following for discussion.

Let's first determine the context of chapter two. In verses 4 and 8 Paul warns the Colossians about deceivers. Then again, in verse 18, Paul gives his final warning about these same deceivers. In what way were they trying to deceive the Colossians? Verse 8 tells us that they were trying to exalt the traditions of men over the Messiah (verses 8 & 19).

Notice carefully the context; the traditions of men in verse 8, 18, and 22. The verses that occur between 8 and 22 must be understood based on the context of the traditions of men.

Now we can understand the key word in Colossians 2:14, "ordinances." The Greek word for ordinances here is a form of the root word "dogma" which means man-made rules, laws, commandments, precepts, etc. Paul is not talking about Yahweh's ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar. It always pertains to man's commandments, not Yahweh's. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to Yahweh's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of Yahweh and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to Yahweh's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in verse 14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not Yahweh's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. The handwriting or, in Greek, the "cheirographon" was a certificate of debt. Whenever a man sins against Yahweh his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of Yahweh, as the Pharisees did (Matthew 15 for example), they sin against Yahweh. The Messiah became sin for us and when He was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. Yahweh's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws, but Messiah was victorious over them.

This brings us to the crucial verse 16. It was the deceivers of verses 4,8, and 18 that were judging the Colossians regarding the things mentioned in verse 16. They had been imposing their man-made commandments and traditions upon the Colossians. Paul told them not to allow anyone to judge them concerning those matters.

An important addition was made in the KJV that does not appear in any Greek manuscript.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.​

The word "is " in verse 17 was added, which changes the meaning of Paul's statement. That is why it is written in italics. Retaining the word "is" implies the thought of shadow vs. reality which is why our modern versions use "substance" or "reality" to translate the Greek word soma. In other words, the addition leads people to believe Messiah fulfilled the shadow of the things mentioned in verse 16. However, if you remove the added word "is", it implies that we should not let any man outside the body of Messiah (Christ) judge us in respect to these things.

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you ... but the body of Christ.​

Indeed that is in line with the context of Paul's previous statements. Notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Col 2:19, all of which teach us that the "body of Christ" is the church or all true believers. When verse 17 is taken in context it becomes clear that Paul is not referring to the substance being Messiah, but to believers (the true body of Christ).

Verse 17 states that these things "are" a shadow of things "to come" not that they "were" a shadow that was now fulfilled by Messiah. Paul wrote this epistle approximately 30 years after Messiah's death and resurrection and yet he still spoke of them as unfulfilled shadows of something in his future.

 

[OzSpen]

This chapter is often used to show how the Feast Days and Sabbaths were only shadows that were fulfilled when the reality or substance came; that being Yeshua (Jesus). I do not believe that interpretation is correct and offer the following for discussion.

Let's first determine the context of chapter two. In verses 4 and 8 Paul warns the Colossians about deceivers. Then again, in verse 18, Paul gives his final warning about these same deceivers. In what way were they trying to deceive the Colossians? Verse 8 tells us that they were trying to exalt the traditions of men over the Messiah (verses 8 & 19).

Notice carefully the context; the traditions of men in verse 8, 18, and 22. The verses that occur between 8 and 22 must be understood based on the context of the traditions of men.

Now we can understand the key word in Colossians 2:14, "ordinances." The Greek word for ordinances here is a form of the root word "dogma" which means man-made rules, laws, commandments, precepts, etc. Paul is not talking about Yahweh's ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar. It always pertains to man's commandments, not Yahweh's. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to Yahweh's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of Yahweh and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to Yahweh's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in verse 14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not Yahweh's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. The handwriting or, in Greek, the "cheirographon" was a certificate of debt. Whenever a man sins against Yahweh his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of Yahweh, as the Pharisees did (Matthew 15 for example), they sin against Yahweh. The Messiah became sin for us and when He was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. Yahweh's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws, but Messiah was victorious over them.

This brings us to the crucial verse 16. It was the deceivers of verses 4,8, and 18 that were judging the Colossians regarding the things mentioned in verse 16. They had been imposing their man-made commandments and traditions upon the Colossians. Paul told them not to allow anyone to judge them concerning those matters.

An important addition was made in the KJV that does not appear in any Greek manuscript.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.​

The word "is " in verse 17 was added, which changes the meaning of Paul's statement. That is why it is written in italics. Retaining the word "is" implies the thought of shadow vs. reality which is why our modern versions use "substance" or "reality" to translate the Greek word soma. In other words, the addition leads people to believe Messiah fulfilled the shadow of the things mentioned in verse 16. However, if you remove the added word "is", it implies that we should not let any man outside the body of Messiah (Christ) judge us in respect to these things.

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you ... but the body of Christ.​

Indeed that is in line with the context of Paul's previous statements. Notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Col 2:19, all of which teach us that the "body of Christ" is the church or all true believers. When verse 17 is taken in context it becomes clear that Paul is not referring to the substance being Messiah, but to believers (the true body of Christ).

Verse 17 states that these things "are" a shadow of things "to come" not that they "were" a shadow that was now fulfilled by Messiah. Paul wrote this epistle approximately 30 years after Messiah's death and resurrection and yet he still spoke of them as unfulfilled shadows of something in his future.

I read through your post but didn't understand the precise points you were trying to make. Could you please give me 3-4 quick and brief points of the issues you are raising about Colossians 2 (ESV) so that perhaps we can enter into discussion?

 

[jocor]

The point is that the Feasts and Sabbaths are not fulfilled shadows that no longer need to be kept. They are indeed shadows, but a shadow cannot be fulfilled until the reality comes. Yeshua was the reality or fulfillment of the Passover lamb. Therefore, we no longer sacrifice a lamb. His return at the sound of the trumpet to resurrect the dead has not been fulfilled. Therefore, the Day of Atonement has not been totally fulfilled yet. Neither has the Day of Trumpets or the Feast of Tabernacles. A proper understanding of Colossians 2 will show that Paul was coming against people outside of the Body of Christ imposing there traditions on the believers. Only true believers can govern how to keep Feasts and Sabbaths.

 

[OzSpen]

The point is that the Feasts and Sabbaths are not fulfilled shadows that no longer need to be kept. They are indeed shadows, but a shadow cannot be fulfilled until the reality comes. Yeshua was the reality or fulfillment of the Passover lamb. Therefore, we no longer sacrifice a lamb. His return at the sound of the trumpet to resurrect the dead has not been fulfilled. Therefore, the Day of Atonement has not been totally fulfilled yet. Neither has the Day of Trumpets or the Feast of Tabernacles. A proper understanding of Colossians 2 will show that Paul was coming against people outside of the Body of Christ imposing there traditions on the believers. Only true believers can govern how to keep Feasts and Sabbaths.

What do you consider were the elements of the Colossian heresy, Col 2:8 (ESV), a 'philosophy and empty deceit'?

 

[Deborah13]

'dogma' G1378

Act 16:3 this one did Paul wish to go forth with him, and having taken him , he circumcised him, because of the Jews who are in those places, for they all knew his father--that he was a Greek.
Act 16:4 And as they were going on through the cities, they were delivering to them the decrees [dogma] to keep, that have been judged by the apostles and the elders who are in Jerusalem,
Act 16:5 then, indeed, were the assemblies established in the faith, and were abounding in number every day;

Do you believe this 'dogma' given by the apostles was false teachings?

Eph 2:14 for he is our peace, who did make both one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down,
Eph 2:15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances [dogma] having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it,

Would you say this law of commandments in decrees [dogma] was given by false prophets? Was Moses' a false prophet? The enmity spoken of here was the wall of separation between the Jew and Greek the Law of Moses that had never been given to the gentiles and was not intended to last forever, "only until the seed should come" the Messiah.
The Law of Moses was a wall between Jew and Gentile. Here's just one example, Jews were forbidden to marry a Gentile. But in Messiah that wall is taken down. In Messiah we are free to marry Jew and Gentile one in Messiah.

In Colossians 2 the Greek word translated as handwriting means writing, manuscript. So it's saying the manuscript of decrees. Was Moses' Law written down, every jot and tittle and it was administered and mediated by a man, Moses.
God's laws are now written on our hearts by God Himself and mediated by the God/man the Messiah.
Here's an example of what I am talking about from the OT.

Est 8:8 and ye, write ye for the Jews, as it is good in your eyes, in the name of the king, and seal with the signet of the king--for the writing that is written in the name of the king, and sealed with the signet of the king, there is none to turn back.'
The Brit HaHadashah (Hebrew NT) says it is this way,
Colossians 2:14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

Heb 9:1 It had, indeed, then (even the first tabernacle) ordinances [dikaioma] of service, also a worldly sanctuary,
Heb 9:2 for a tabernacle was prepared, the first, in which was both the lamp-stand, and the table, and the bread of the presence--which is called `Holy;'

Heb 9:8 the Holy Spirit this evidencing that not yet hath been manifested the way of the holy places , the first tabernacle having yet a standing;
Heb 9:9 which is a simile in regard to the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which are not able, in regard to conscience, to make perfect him who is serving,
Heb 9:10 only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances [dikaioma]--till the time of reformation imposed upon them .
Heb 9:11 And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands--that is, not of this creation--

So hear we see two tabernacles being spoken of the old worldly sanctuary with it's Godly ordinances, which was holy to the Lord, Until the new tabernacle of Messiah Himself, Godly, greater, and more perfect than the old.

Messiah is not the mediator of the Law, Moses is. Who is our Savior the Messiah or Moses?

 

[jocor]

What do you consider were the elements of the Colossian heresy, Col 2:8 (ESV), a 'philosophy and empty deceit'?

The exaltation of man made philosophy and tradition over the truth.
The exaltation of the commandments of men over Yahweh's commandments.
Deception.
Failing to exalt Yeshua as the head of the body.
Ascetism.
Judging others.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Act 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
Act 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

 

[TOG]

Act 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
Act 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

That's probably one of the most misused verses in the entire Bible. People use that in discussions about the Sabbath to show that we don't have to keep it any more, but they seem to forget that the Sabbath command is in the same set of 10 as the commandments to not worship idols, not commit murder and to honor our parents. The same logic that is used to say that we don't have to keep the Sabbath can be used on nearly all of the other commandments. Also, the Acts 15 passage is used to support the idea that the dietary rules are no longer in effect, in spite of the fact that three out of four commandments in Acts 15 are, in fact, dietary rules.

The TOG​

 

[jocor]

'dogma' G1378

Act 16:3 this one did Paul wish to go forth with him, and having taken him , he circumcised him, because of the Jews who are in those places, for they all knew his father--that he was a Greek.
Act 16:4 And as they were going on through the cities, they were delivering to them the decrees [dogma] to keep, that have been judged by the apostles and the elders who are in Jerusalem,
Act 16:5 then, indeed, were the assemblies established in the faith, and were abounding in number every day;

Do you believe this 'dogma' given by the apostles was false teachings?

No. Not all dogma is false, but all dogma derives from man whether good or bad.

Eph 2:14 for he is our peace, who did make both one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down,
Eph 2:15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances [dogma] having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it,

Would you say this law of commandments in decrees [dogma] was given by false prophets? Was Moses' a false prophet? The enmity spoken of here was the wall of separation between the Jew and Greek the Law of Moses that had never been given to the gentiles and was not intended to last forever, "only until the seed should come" the Messiah.
The Law of Moses was a wall between Jew and Gentile. Here's just one example, Jews were forbidden to marry a Gentile. But in Messiah that wall is taken down. In Messiah we are free to marry Jew and Gentile one in Messiah.

The "law of commandments in ordinances [dogma]" refers to man-made commandments. They were made by Jews who did not know Yeshua as Master and Savior. The Law of Moses was NOT the law Paul was referencing. The Law of Moses was given by Yahweh. As far as I know, the word dogma was never used in reference to a command of Yahweh in the Septuagint.

Notice what is abolished in verse 15. It is the enmity or the hatred between the Israelite and the Gentile that was abolished. This hatred was caused by the commandments and traditions of men. For example, Paul alludes to a “middle wall of partition” between Jew and Gentile. This was a literal wall that Paul used in a figurative sense to make his point. The Jews decreed (they made a dogma), which stated that if a Gentile crossed over the wall separating the Court of the Jews from the Court of the Gentiles surrounding the temple, that they would be immediately killed. This was not a commandment of Yahweh. In fact, Yahweh never even commanded such a wall to exist. That dogma created a hatred between the two peoples which Messiah destroyed creating one new man and so, making peace.

In Colossians 2 the Greek word translated as handwriting means writing, manuscript. So it's saying the manuscript of decrees. Was Moses' Law written down, every jot and tittle and it was administered and mediated by a man, Moses.
God's laws are now written on our hearts by God Himself and mediated by the God/man the Messiah.
Here's an example of what I am talking about from the OT.

The "manuscript of decrees" is the "manuscript of dogma" (man-made laws written by the hand of man). Yahweh's laws are not man-made though they were given through a man.

The Brit HaHadashah (Hebrew NT) says it is this way,
Colossians 2:14 having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

If Yahweh's law is nailed to the cross, then why are we still keeping the two greatest commandment, love Yahweh and love thy neighbor? Why do most Christians still keep nine of the ten commandments? Sin was nailed to the cross along with any man-made decrees that caused the people to sin.

Heb 9:1 It had, indeed, then (even the first tabernacle) ordinances [dikaioma] of service, also a worldly sanctuary,
Heb 9:2 for a tabernacle was prepared, the first, in which was both the lamp-stand, and the table, and the bread of the presence--which is called `Holy;'

Heb 9:8 the Holy Spirit this evidencing that not yet hath been manifested the way of the holy places , the first tabernacle having yet a standing;
Heb 9:9 which is a simile in regard to the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which are not able, in regard to conscience, to make perfect him who is serving,
Heb 9:10 only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances [dikaioma]--till the time of reformation imposed upon them .
Heb 9:11 And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands--that is, not of this creation--

So hear we see two tabernacles being spoken of the old worldly sanctuary with it's Godly ordinances, which was holy to the Lord, Until the new tabernacle of Messiah Himself, Godly, greater, and more perfect than the old.

Messiah is not the mediator of the Law, Moses is. Who is our Savior the Messiah or Moses?

Messiah is the mediator between Yahweh and man. Why do we need a mediator? Because we break Yahweh's laws. Yeshua then goes before Yahweh and pleads his blood for the forgiveness of our sins against Yahweh's holy laws.

Messiah is indeed our Savior. Do you think he shed his blood so that we can be forgiven of our adulteries, thefts, murders, coveting, sabbath breaking, etc., (Yahweh's holy laws) only to then abolish those laws so we can then do those things without sinning? All those things are still sins for believers today. Why? Because they are still part of Yahweh's holy law. They are to be written on our hearts if we allow the Spirit to write them there.

 

[jocor]

Act 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
Act 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

There are many more laws than four that Gentile believers must obey (no murder, stealing, adultery, coveting, ...). The four laws mentioned here were the main four that were hindering fellowship between Jewish and Gentile believers. Notice verse 21:

For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
​

In other words, James is saying, "Let's impose no greater burden than these essentials because ("For") they will hear Moses read in the synagogue every Sabbath and eventually learn the rest of the law."

 

[Deborah13]

No. Not all dogma is false, but all dogma derives from man whether good or bad.

So you believe the apostles were teaching manmade laws.

That's all I need to hear to know that I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion.

 

[jocor]

The apostles were teaching the Gentiles to keep Yahweh's laws (the four "essentials"), not man-made laws. The "sentence" or "judgment" to impose the four essentials came from James and was agreed to by the apostles. That decision was the "dogma".

 

[Deborah13]

If Yahweh's law is nailed to the cross, then why are we still keeping the two greatest commandment, love Yahweh and love thy neighbor? Why do most Christians still keep nine of the ten commandments? Sin was nailed to the cross along with any man-made decrees that caused the people to sin.

A lot of Christians don't believe that the 10 Commandments are part of Moses Law. I know they are and Jews know they are. If Christians want to keep the 10 Commandments they need to observe the Saturday Sabbath. No one can change any one of the 10.

Messiah is the mediator between Yahweh and man. Why do we need a mediator? Because we break Yahweh's laws. Yeshua then goes before Yahweh and pleads his blood for the forgiveness of our sins against Yahweh's holy laws.

We need a mediator because we sin. Messiah is the mediator in the new covenant.
Moses was the mediator of the old covenant.

Messiah is indeed our Savior. Do you think he shed his blood so that we can be forgiven of our adulteries, thefts, murders, coveting, sabbath breaking, etc., (Yahweh's holy laws) only to then abolish those laws so we can then do those things without sinning? All those things are still sins for believers today. Why? Because they are still part of Yahweh's holy law. They are to be written on our hearts if we allow the Spirit to write them there.

Murder was a sin long before Moses Law was ever given. The NT is very clear about what is sin in God's eyes. No one has to read Moses Law to know what is sin and displeasing to God, the apostles made sure everyone knew and so we know. They were even written down in manuscripts. So even the unsaved can read what is sin in God's eyes. Even the unsaved can read how God wants people to live pure lives. Even the unsaved can read that God wants all people to love each other and love Him.

If the law of commandments has not been abolished then why can't a man of God have more than one wife?

 

[jocor]

A lot of Christians don't believe that the 10 Commandments are part of Moses Law. I know they are and Jews know they are. If Christians want to keep the 10 Commandments they need to observe the Saturday Sabbath. No one can change any one of the 10.

I agree. I will add that Moses' law and the Law of Yahweh are the exact same thing.

We need a mediator because we sin. Messiah is the mediator in the new covenant.
Moses was the mediator of the old covenant.

I agree. I will add that sin in both covenants is defined as transgressing the Law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

Murder was a sin long before Moses Law was ever given. The NT is very clear about what is sin in God's eyes. No one has to read Moses Law to know what is sin and displeasing to God, the apostles made sure everyone knew and so we know. They were even written down in manuscripts. So even the unsaved can read what is sin in God's eyes. Even the unsaved can read how God wants people to live pure lives. Even the unsaved can read that God wants all people to love each other and love Him.

I agree.

If the law of commandments has not been abolished then why can't a man of God have more than one wife?

The Law of Yahweh does not say, "Thou shalt have more than one wife." Polygamy was not Yahweh's ideal for marriage. From the beginning, Yahweh's ideal was marriage consisting of one wife & one husband. He even commands the same for kings (Dt 17:14-20). It is not that Yahweh is abolishing a law that says a man can have more than one wife, but that He is restoring the original ideal for marriage.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree. I will add that Moses' law and the Law of Yahweh are the exact same thing.



I agree. I will add that sin in both covenants is defined as transgressing the Law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

I agree.



The Law of Yahweh does not say, "Thou shalt have more than one wife." Polygamy was not Yahweh's ideal for marriage. From the beginning, Yahweh's ideal was marriage consisting of one wife & one husband. He even commands the same for kings (Dt 17:14-20). It is not that Yahweh is abolishing a law that says a man can have more than one wife, but that He is restoring the original ideal for marriage.

I agree, you are correct in that God never commanded that a man have more than one wife. However, it was Lawful in Moses Law to have more than one wife. It is a legal document authored by God Himself no mere man can change that. Anymore than the Saturday Sabbath or any other of the 613, including the feasts, death for adultery, etc. They are God given Laws. They would ALL stand today for ALL of God's people if there had not been a change in the priesthood.
I agree God's ideal marriage is one man and one woman, Adam and Eve. That is not the point though, the point is what is legal and if it is no longer legal by God's law why not? And how do we know? Where is it mentioned in the NT? Where is it mentioned in any of the lists of sin in the NT?

This is how I see it. There was a change in the priesthood therefore there was a change in the law. I posted just the other day and example written by a Messianic Rabbi and gave a link to the site. This is how that example of the change in the covenants was explained. I use myself as an example.

I used to live in CT, I had a CT driver's license and in order to have that I agreed to abide by the traffic rules of that state. Then I moved to CO, I got a CO driver's license and agreed to abide by the CO traffic rules. When I studied to get that license I found that most all of the traffic rules and regulations were the same in both states. Except in CO there was one that was very different. In CO, one is allowed to make a right hand turn through a red light, after stopping and waiting for a clear path. If I had done that in CT I would have been violating the terms that I had agreed to.

Murder was sin before the old covenant, during the old covenant, and still is after the old covenant and it effects how a person will be judged. We will be judged by whatever covenant we break. When the Messiah came, died, and rose the covenant changed. That could only happen because He fulfilled the old and took His right place as the high priest and mediator of the new covenant.
Does that mean that God has changed; absolutely not. But the covenant did change. The old covenant was never intended to be an everlasting covenant, it was only until the Messiah came.
So is it illegal to not celebrate the feasts? Is it illegal for spouse not to sleep in separate beds at certain times of the month? Because if it is then there is a whole lot of sin going on and saints who have not repented.

 

[jocor]

So is it illegal to not celebrate the feasts? Is it illegal for spouse not to sleep in separate beds at certain times of the month? Because if it is then there is a whole lot of sin going on and saints who have not repented.

I agree with most of your post and understand your example of CT vs. CO driving laws. How do you decide what OC laws are still applicable under the NC? I still celebrate the Feasts and love them, knowing that the majority are not totally fulfilled yet. I still sleep separately from my wife during her "times" because Yahweh said to. I don't see anywhere in the NT that either command is abolished. Do you? What I do see is Yeshua saying;

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19
​

I also see the Apostle Paul saying;

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
​

I would think that the Feasts and sanitary laws are greater than the "least commandments" and are not made void or abolished by NC faith.

Your reference to a change in the priesthood refers only to a change in who can be a high priest. It has nothing to do with a change in other laws.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Father has only one law for us: 'Love God!'
Everything else is in response to our plea: 'How?'
The Son showed us the way with: 'Love others as yourself.'
Everything else is in response to our plea: 'How?'
The Spirit helps us conform our lives to these two commands with infinite variation.

 

[jocor]

The Father has only one law for us: 'Love God!'
Everything else is in response to our plea: 'How?'
The Son showed us the way with: 'Love others as yourself.'
Everything else is in response to our plea: 'How?'
The Spirit helps us conform our lives to these two commands with infinite variation.

That sounds real spiritual, but it is not true.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:​

I have many laws written on my heart, not just one or two. "Love God" is the greatest. "Love thy neighbor" is the second greatest. Both are followed by many more. The Spirit helps us conform our lives to ALL His Laws if we allow him to.

 

[Sinthesis]

That sounds real spiritual, but it is not true.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:​

I have many laws written on my heart, not just one or two. "Love God" is the greatest. "Love thy neighbor" is the second greatest. Both are followed by many more. The Spirit helps us conform our lives to ALL His Laws if we allow him to.

It's not a contest. All those extra laws are really just sample applications of the first law to help those who don't understand how to apply the underlying principle within their lives. Yes, you are covered through the Holy Spirit's infinite adaptability to legalism, as are many who perceive less laws, or even more laws than you.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with most of your post and understand your example of CT vs. CO driving laws. How do you decide what OC laws are still applicable under the NC? I still celebrate the Feasts and love them, knowing that the majority are not totally fulfilled yet. I still sleep separately from my wife during her "times" because Yahweh said to. I don't see anywhere in the NT that either command is abolished. Do you? What I do see is Yeshua saying;

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19
​

I also see the Apostle Paul saying;

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
​

I would think that the Feasts and sanitary laws are greater than the "least commandments" and are not made void or abolished by NC faith.

Your reference to a change in the priesthood refers only to a change in who can be a high priest. It has nothing to do with a change in other laws.

Yes, I believe Moses Law was made obsolete. I believe Christains are required to live by the law of Christ/law of the Spirit.
This is the way Paul said he lived.

1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Jesus said,
Mat 5:14 `Ye are the light of the world, a city set upon a mount is not able to be hid;
Mat 5:15 nor do they light a lamp, and put it under the measure, but on the lamp-stand, and it shineth to all those in the house;
Mat 5:16 so let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father who is in the heavens.

We are found to be righteous by faith, like Abraham, and are lead in our conscious by the Holy Spirit.
If your heart (conscious) is lead to keep the things of Moses Law, then by all means do them.
You know that doing these things does not earn your justification or sanctification that is only through Christ.
My heart (conscious) is lead to keep the two commandments given by the Messiah, the law of Christ.