Colossians 2

[Jethro Bodine]

Yup, there it is again in Exodus. I don't see how one can pick and choose which Torah to take literally?

We do that by discerning which one's are fulfilled through the work of Christ on our behalf and, therefore, have no remaining debt for literal compliance left to fulfill by us, and which ones do.

Christ is the 'eye for an eye, tooth for tooth' etc. that the law requires (remember, he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it). Thankfully, God's righteous justice in demanding equal payment for equal offense is satisfied in Christ instead of us (we apply that payment to our account by placing our trust in that payment). While the fundamental obligation of the law to not hurt someone in the first place remains and is fulfilled by us, but still fulfilled in the new way of Christ and faith in his name via the Holy Spirit he gave so we can do that.

 

[jocor]

Without question. It's just that the fourth Commandment gets fulfilled in the new way of Christ and faith in his name, not abolished. Just as the other Commandments get fulfilled in the new way of Christ and faith in his name.

Psalm 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
​

The testimonies are the ten commandments.

37 'These are the appointed times of the LORD which you shall proclaim as holy convocations, to present offerings by fire to the LORD -burnt offerings and grain offerings,sacrifices and drink offerings, each day's matter on its own day - 38 besides those of the sabbaths of the LORD, and besides your gifts and besides all your votive and freewill offerings,which you give to the LORD..." (Leviticus 23:37 NAS)

I'm saying the cycle of holy days were appointed for the purpose of making the required offerings to God. Now that those sacrifices are no longer required as a matter of covenant law, there's no reason for the cycle of holy days designated for the purpose of offering up those sacrifices.

This is simply telling Israel what needed to be done on those days. It does not address the reason why the days exist. Do you actually think the sole purpose of Pentecost was to offer sacrifices? Each Feast points to a part of Yahweh's plan of salvation; redemption through the blood of the Lamb; living an unleavened life; the receiving of the Holy Spirit to enable holy living; Yahweh's judgment upon the world; the atonement for sin and resurrection of the dead; the millennial Kingdom; and life after the Millennium.

It was not abolished, that I agree (Christ said he did not come to abolish the law). What changed was we now keep it in the new way of Christ and faith in him. From the passage we see that means no longer using a literal lamb, but the person of Christ, and keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread in regard to spiritual leaven, not literal leaven. Which is just what I said is the new way to serve God, through Christ (our Passover sacrifice), and faith in him (the life of unleavened, faithful obedience to him).

Come on Jethro. The church does NOT keep them in a new way. They abolish them totally. They throw out those that are fulfilled even though they are memorials of what Yahweh has done for us and those that were not fulfilled they trample on. Do you still have leaven in you? Yes as do we all. Therefore, it would behoove you and all believers to be reminded of the need to get the spiritual leaven out by getting the physical leaven out. It is not until our resurrection comes that we can cease getting the leaven out.

 

[jocor]

We do that by discerning which one's are fulfilled through the work of Christ on our behalf and, therefore, have no remaining debt for literal compliance left to fulfill by us, and which ones do.

How easy it is to say, "Yup, Messiah fulfilled that and that and that...everything ...Therefore, I have no more obligation to do it".

Christ is the 'eye for an eye, tooth for tooth' etc. that the law requires (remember, he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it). Thankfully, God's righteous justice in demanding equal payment for equal offense is satisfied in Christ instead of us (we apply that payment to our account by placing our trust in that payment). While the fundamental obligation of the law to not hurt someone in the first place remains and is fulfilled by us, but still fulfilled in the new way of Christ and faith in his name via the Holy Spirit he gave so we can do that.

That is all well and good concerning us; Messiah paid our debt. Where does that leave the one whose eye we accidentally put out or who we accidentally wounded? Do we just say, "Oh, sorry about that", or do we make restitution in some way as Torah teaches?

​

 

[Deborah13]

We do that by discerning which one's are fulfilled through the work of Christ on our behalf and, therefore, have no remaining debt for literal compliance left to fulfill by us, and which ones do.

Christ is the 'eye for an eye, tooth for tooth' etc. that the law requires (remember, he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it). Thankfully, God's righteous justice in demanding equal payment for equal offense is satisfied in Christ instead of us (we apply that payment to our account by placing our trust in that payment). While the fundamental obligation of the law to not hurt someone in the first place remains and is fulfilled by us, but still fulfilled in the new way of Christ and faith in his name via the Holy Spirit he gave so we can do that.

I see that there isn't a whole lot of discernment involved in the law of Christ, in that He made it very simply to understand, "Do no harm."
You are quite right that when we look at law we can discern which ones are applicable to "Do no harm."
Jesus made it very clear that love fulfills all law and that love can be defined as 'Do no harm' and when we live by this one law we show our love for Him as well as His love for us and others. We shine His light into a very confused world.

 

[Deborah13]

That is all well and good concerning us; Messiah paid our debt. Where does that leave the one whose eye we accidentally put out or who we accidentally wounded? Do we just say, "Oh, sorry about that", or do we make restitution in some way as Torah teaches?

That's pretty simple I would think, what does 'Do no harm' say? What has the Holy Spirit put in your heart, "love all men as yourself!"

Exo 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her (premature birth, not death), and yet no mischief follow (no death): he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Exo 21:23 And if any mischief follow (death by murder), then thou shalt give life for life, (death by accident did not lead to the death penalty)
Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exo 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. (It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to carry this out literally with equal justice. For example, if I burn my neighbor, will my body be burned in the exact same way and to the same degree? What if they burn me more than I burned my neighbor? Will they be able to knock out the same tooth I knocked out of my neighbor? How? With a chisel? Can they inflict the same wound on me that I inflicted on my neighbor? The Jews had difficulty seeing these things carried out literally. According to their ancient writings, they exacted the commensurate pecuniary damages).
Exo 21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
Exo 21:27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. (In these cases, an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth were not carried out literally).

You have proven my point quite clearly. We can look at a law in Lev. and find something contrary in Exodus. Is this because God changed somehow, absolutely not. God does not change and the intent of His laws for behaviors have not changed, what He wanted the people to learn did not change.
But when the Messiah gave His life the new (old, old) covenant replaced the Mosaic covenant that was only intended for an age. It was not an everlasting covenant because it was always God's plan that the Messiah would fulfill it, we know this true the OT says so, as you have pointed out yourself by quoting Jeremiah. Was Abraham under Moses Law? No. He was found righteous by God's grace through faith in God, he believed God.
The more we walk in the Spirit, we walk in the kingdom. Our minds are renewed to how the Lord created man to be. We don't want to be in the kingdom running around collecting leaves to try to cover our nakedness. Only the blood of the Lamb can do that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How easy it is to say, "Yup, Messiah fulfilled that and that and that...everything ...Therefore, I have no more obligation to do it".

Uh, am I mistaken, or did you not agree this is exactly what is true in regard to sacrifice for sin? If so, please explain your duplicity.

That is all well and good concerning us; Messiah paid our debt. Where does that leave the one whose eye we accidentally put out or who we accidentally wounded? Do we just say, "Oh, sorry about that", or do we make restitution in some way as Torah teaches?

The way Torah teaches? Good heavens, 'NO!', lol. We take God's offer of his own Son's eye as the justice for gouging an eye, or breaking a tooth (skin for skin, life for life, etc.). Then we talk about practical restitution out of love and concern for the offended.

Let's not forget, it is incumbent on the offended party to not demand the justice the law requires....or else be ready to fork over an eye when they suddenly find themselves on the wrong side of the law regarding 'eye for eye'. Mercy triumphs over judgment. This is the message declared by the law that the Israelites as a whole just didn't get.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is a dangerous belief. What if your understanding of the intent is wrong?

We all 'live and learn'.

Christians believe the intent of the Sabbath rest is the spiritual rest in Jesus.

Actually, specifically, that means rest from the effort of law to justify oneself, and rest from the taskmaster of sin. Much, much more profound and meaningful than the intent to be careful to swing in a hammock before, in between , and after Temple services.

Wrong! Its intent is to set apart a day for man to physically rest and have time set aside to worship and commune with Yahweh; to turn from our own pleasure and enjoy Him.

Later, when I have time, we will visit Isiah 58 to help us understand a little more clearly what Yahweh had in mind when he commanded Sabbath Rest (and fasting, too). Remember, these literal worship stipulations were actually the shadow cast by the coming Messiah. Now that Messiah has appeared, we know what the reality is that was casting the abstract shadow, and we worship according to it, now, not the shadow. But you are most certainly entitled to continue in the shadow, just as long as you don't neglect the reality that cast that shadow. The shadow is never more important than what cast the shadow.

See you tonight, God willing.

 

[jocor]

Uh, am I mistaken, or did you not agree this is exactly what is true in regard to sacrifice for sin? If so, please explain your duplicity.

No duplicity. I agree concerning sacrifice for sin. I disagree that the entire law is fulfilled. That teaching is just an excuse to not have to obey it. People would rather say, "Oh, I obey the law of love" and then they go break the laws that define love.

The way Torah teaches? Good heavens, 'NO!', lol. We take God's offer of his own Son's eye as the justice for gouging an eye, or breaking a tooth (skin for skin, life for life, etc.). Then we talk about practical restitution out of love and concern for the offended.

Let's not forget, it is incumbent on the offended party to not demand the justice the law requires....or else be ready to fork over an eye when they suddenly find themselves on the wrong side of the law regarding 'eye for eye'. Mercy triumphs over judgment. This is the message declared by the law that the Israelites as a whole just didn't get.

Yeshua taught Torah, obeyed Torah, and is the living Torah. His teaching on mercy, as you said, is declared by the law. He simply revealed to Israel the deeper things of Torah that Israel didn't get.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

​

Obeying the weightier/deeper things of Torah does not negate the other basic commands. He wants us to do what our Father asks from the simplest commands to the weightiest commands.

 

[jocor]

Actually, specifically, that means rest from the effort of law to justify oneself, and rest from the taskmaster of sin. Much, much more profound and meaningful than the intent to be careful to swing in a hammock before, in between , and after Temple services.

Correct. That is the meaning of resting in Yeshua. It doesn't mean a physical rest for our bodies.

Later, when I have time, we will visit Isiah 58 to help us understand a little more clearly what Yahweh had in mind when he commanded Sabbath Rest (and fasting, too). Remember, these literal worship stipulations were actually the shadow cast by the coming Messiah. Now that Messiah has appeared, we know what the reality is that was casting the abstract shadow, and we worship according to it, now, not the shadow. But you are most certainly entitled to continue in the shadow, just as long as you don't neglect the reality that cast that shadow. The shadow is never more important than what cast the shadow.

See you tonight, God willing.

You make every shadow to be fulfilled by Messiah when, in reality, different shadows point to different realities. What is the shadow of the Day of Trumpets pointing to? Messiah at his first coming? No! Messiah at his second coming? Maybe, but doubtful. Even if it does point to his second coming, it has not happened yet. It is not fulfilled yet. It cannot cease until the reality comes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is simply telling Israel what needed to be done on those days. It does not address the reason why the days exist. Do you actually think the sole purpose of Pentecost was to offer sacrifices?

No. I think it's purpose is to command the Israelites to worship in a literal prescribed manner. A literal manner of worship according to temple, priesthood, and sacrifice that we now know has been replaced by a New Covenant of worship according to a new Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice. This is plainly taught in Hebrews. Plainly. The old way of worship was set aside as being no longer needed because of the appearance of the NEW Covenant of Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice through which the people of God would now relate in Covenant with God.

Each Feast points to a part of Yahweh's plan of salvation; redemption through the blood of the Lamb; living an unleavened life; the receiving of the Holy Spirit to enable holy living; Yahweh's judgment upon the world; the atonement for sin and resurrection of the dead; the millennial Kingdom; and life after the Millennium.

I have no argument with this. It's a shame the church was taught that any and all acknowledgement of the law is a sin. But that adapting pagan practices and time tables for worship of Yahweh is not. What is true, though, that it is no longer necessary as a matter of commanded law to worship God according to the old system. You don't HAVE too, anymore. That doesn't mean you categorically can't and shouldn't. It means it's no longer a matter of covenant law, punishable by death, to not worship according to Moses.

Come on Jethro. The church does NOT keep them in a new way. They abolish them totally.

Actually, even the law rejecting church 'keeps' the requirements of, for example, the Passover, when they believe in Jesus Christ. They just don't know that they are (speaking generally of the Church, of course).

And I'm in complete agreement with you that the church's doctrinal beliefs about the law of Moses does actually abolish it and replace it with a new law. But to say that belief has them categorically and without exception not fulfilling various requirements of the law of Moses would be completely false. As I've shown, faith in Christ, whether a believer realizes it or not, does in fact satisfy God's requirement for a Day of Atonement, and a Passover, etc. Just not literally as you insist it MUST be fulfilled, but which is shown to not be true right from the pages of our NT.

They throw out those that are fulfilled even though they are memorials of what Yahweh has done for us and those that were not fulfilled they trample on.

Well, they obviously do not remember the work of Christ through the literal Mosaic law. There's no debate about that. And I honestly can't think of a single reason why the church should not have continued to remember the work of Christ through the literal ceremonial law. What better way to commemorate and honor the work of Christ illustrated by the Mosaic worship stipulations than to actually use the illustrations to do that. (I can hear the gasps of 'heresy!', 'blasphemy!' right now, lol).

Do you still have leaven in you? Yes as do we all. Therefore, it would behoove you and all believers to be reminded of the need to get the spiritual leaven out by getting the physical leaven out. It is not until our resurrection comes that we can cease getting the leaven out.

I have no problem with using the actual illustration of removing leaven from your house to bolster the reminder that, now that Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed, we should now 'keep' the Feast of Unleavened Bread that immediately follows the Passover by ridding the 'house' of our body of the leaven of sin (the lesson taught by the illustration is obvious). Especially if one needs that kind of visual reminder.

No problem with me about that. Just don't now make it MANDATORY that all believers MUST now do that, or else be sinning. You can not sin in regard to a literal old covenant worship stipulation that has been replaced by a NEW covenant worship stipulation.

 

[Deborah13]

No. I think it's purpose is to command the Israelites to worship in a literal prescribed manner. A literal manner of worship according to temple, priesthood, and sacrifice that we now know has been replaced by a New Covenant of worship according to a new Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice. This is plainly taught in Hebrews. Plainly. The old way of worship was set aside as being no longer needed because of the appearance of the NEW Covenant of Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice through which the people of God would now relate in Covenant with God.



I have no argument with this. It's a shame the church was taught that any and all acknowledgement of the law is a sin. But that adapting pagan practices and time tables for worship of Yahweh is not. What is true, though, that it is no longer necessary as a matter of commanded law to worship God according to the old system. You don't HAVE too, anymore. That doesn't mean you categorically can't and shouldn't. It means it's no longer a matter of covenant law, punishable by death, to not worship according to Moses.



Actually, even the law rejecting church 'keeps' the requirements of, for example, the Passover, when they believe in Jesus Christ. They just don't know that they are (speaking generally of the Church, of course).

And I'm in complete agreement with you that the church's doctrinal beliefs about the law of Moses does actually abolish it and replace it with a new law. But to say that belief has them categorically and without exception not fulfilling various requirements of the law of Moses would be completely false. As I've shown, faith in Christ, whether a believer realizes it or not, does in fact satisfy God's requirement for a Day of Atonement, and a Passover, etc. Just not literally as you insist it MUST be fulfilled, but which is shown to not be true right from the pages of our NT.


Well, they obviously do not remember the work of Christ through the literal Mosaic law. There's no debate about that. And I honestly can't think of a single reason why the church should not have continued to remember the work of Christ through the literal ceremonial law. What better way to commemorate and honor the work of Christ illustrated by the Mosaic worship stipulations than to actually use the illustrations to do that. (I can hear the gasps of 'heresy!', 'blasphemy!' right now, lol).



I have no problem with using the actual illustration of removing leaven from your house to bolster the reminder that, now that Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed, we should now 'keep' the Feast of Unleavened Bread that immediately follows the Passover by ridding the 'house' of our body of the leaven of sin (the lesson taught by the illustration is obvious). Especially if one needs that kind of visual reminder.

No problem with me about that. Just don't now make it MANDATORY that all believers MUST now do that, or else be sinning. You can not sin in regard to a literal old covenant worship stipulation that has been replaced by a NEW covenant worship stipulation.

 

[jocor]

No. I think it's purpose is to command the Israelites to worship in a literal prescribed manner. A literal manner of worship according to temple, priesthood, and sacrifice that we now know has been replaced by a New Covenant of worship according to a new Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice. This is plainly taught in Hebrews. Plainly. The old way of worship was set aside as being no longer needed because of the appearance of the NEW Covenant of Temple, Priesthood, and Sacrifice through which the people of God would now relate in Covenant with God.

The New Covenant manner of worship does not remove the designated days of worship as is evident by the followings verses.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith Yahweh will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. ​

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, says Yahweh, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says Yahweh. ​

Both of these passages take place during the millennium.

I have no argument with this. It's a shame the church was taught that any and all acknowledgement of the law is a sin. But that adapting pagan practices and time tables for worship of Yahweh is not. What is true, though, that it is no longer necessary as a matter of commanded law to worship God according to the old system. You don't HAVE too, anymore. That doesn't mean you categorically can't and shouldn't. It means it's no longer a matter of covenant law, punishable by death, to not worship according to Moses.

Please site some references for this, especially the "commanded law", "covenant law", and "You don't HAVE too" parts.

Actually, even the law rejecting church 'keeps' the requirements of, for example, the Passover, when they believe in Jesus Christ. They just don't know that they are (speaking generally of the Church, of course).

And I'm in complete agreement with you that the church's doctrinal beliefs about the law of Moses does actually abolish it and replace it with a new law. But to say that belief has them categorically and without exception not fulfilling various requirements of the law of Moses would be completely false. As I've shown, faith in Christ, whether a believer realizes it or not, does in fact satisfy God's requirement for a Day of Atonement, and a Passover, etc. Just not literally as you insist it MUST be fulfilled, but which is shown to not be true right from the pages of our NT.

I agree that faith in Messiah fulfills the Atonement and the need to offer a Passover lamb. It does not fulfill the requirement to keep the Day of Atonement holy by not working in any secular manner whatsoever. That is how Yahweh has chosen for His people to honor what was done for them on that day. This would not apply to Passover since Abib 14 was not a holy day. However, we are to honor what Yeshua did for us that day by remembering his death through partaking of the cup and bread on that day.

Well, they obviously do not remember the work of Christ through the literal Mosaic law. There's no debate about that. And I honestly can't think of a single reason why the church should not have continued to remember the work of Christ through the literal ceremonial law. What better way to commemorate and honor the work of Christ illustrated by the Mosaic worship stipulations than to actually use the illustrations to do that. (I can hear the gasps of 'heresy!', 'blasphemy!' right now, lol).

I do not include Yahweh's holy times as part of the man-made term "ceremonial law". To me, that would include laws pertaining to the sacrifices, priesthood and temple.

I have no problem with using the actual illustration of removing leaven from your house to bolster the reminder that, now that Christ our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed, we should now 'keep' the Feast of Unleavened Bread that immediately follows the Passover by ridding the 'house' of our body of the leaven of sin (the lesson taught by the illustration is obvious). Especially if one needs that kind of visual reminder.

No problem with me about that. Just don't now make it MANDATORY that all believers MUST now do that, or else be sinning. You can not sin in regard to a literal old covenant worship stipulation that has been replaced by a NEW covenant worship stipulation.

I have NO right or authority to make it mandatory since Yahweh already made it mandatory before Messiah, now, and will during the millennium . Christians have no right or authority to abolish it by leaning on their own understanding and traditions rather than the Word of Yahweh.

 

[Deborah13]

I do not include Yahweh's holy times as part of the man-made term "ceremonial law". To me, that would include laws pertaining to the sacrifices, priesthood and temple.

Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year to worship these on there sabbath days?
Doesn't Torah say that is the way it must be done? Doesn't there have to be a temple?

I have NO right or authority to make it mandatory since Yahweh already made it mandatory before Messiah, now, and will during the millennium . Christians have no right or authority to abolish it by leaning on their own understanding and traditions rather than the Word of Yahweh.

 

[jocor]

Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year to worship these on there sabbath days?
Doesn't Torah say that is the way it must be done? Doesn't there have to be a temple?

I don’t “worship these”. I simply worship on these days (as well as every day, but I do not neglect to worship Yahweh at the times He appointed).

As long as the temple stood in Jerusalem, that is where the Feasts were kept under the OC. Now that there is no longer a temple and we are under the NC, we keep it in whatever location Yahweh’s people are celebrating and worshiping.

Yeshua said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:21-24​

There does not need to be a temple to celebrate the Feasts since there are no sacrifices.

 

[Deborah13]

I don’t “worship these”. I simply worship on these days (as well as every day, but I do not neglect to worship Yahweh at the times He appointed).

As long as the temple stood in Jerusalem, that is where the Feasts were kept under the OC. Now that there is no longer a temple and we are under the NC, we keep it in whatever location Yahweh’s people are celebrating and worshiping.

Yeshua said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:21-24​

There does not need to be a temple to celebrate the Feasts since there are no sacrifices.

Thank you for your response. That first question was reworded but then I didn't delete "there". Sorry. But you 'got it anyway' or it appears so because of your answer.
"Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year to worship on these sabbath days?"

What will you do if they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem? Would it make a difference?

 

[jocor]

Thank you for your response. That first question was reworded but then I didn't delete "there". Sorry. But you 'got it anyway' or it appears so because of your answer.
"Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year to worship on these sabbath days?"

What will you do if they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem? Would it make a difference?

It would not make a difference for me under the NC since any priesthood and sacrifices would be of man, not of Yahweh.

 

[Deborah13]

It would not make a difference for me under the NC since any priesthood and sacrifices would be of man, not of Yahweh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The New Covenant manner of worship does not remove the designated days of worship as is evident by the followings verses.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith Yahweh will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. ​

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, says Yahweh, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says Yahweh. ​

Both of these passages take place during the millennium.

Why can't these be understood spiritually and figuratively, as they are now?

On the other hand, there's no reason to think God would not bring the kingdom in line with the Mosaic time table of worship. Remember, that's just as okay to do, as it is not too.

The point being, God wants the kingdom to fulfill the requirements of the Mosaic worship law. As I've been saying, we do that now, but in Spirit and in truth, not literally by the letter of the law. There's no reason that the fulfillment being spoken about here has to be a literal to the letter of the law fulfillment. With the sacrifices for sin no longer required it can't be anyway.

Please site some references for this, especially the "commanded law", "covenant law", and "You don't HAVE too" parts.

Commanded law: Obviously, you know without taking the time to cite a reference that the law of Moses was commanded by God for the people of Israel to keep. There should be no disagreement here.

Covenant law: The law of Moses was the covenant of law that he made with the people of Israel. Again, there should be no disagreement here.

'You don't have to': Hebrews is where we learn about the setting aside and passing away of an old covenant of temple, priesthood, and sacrifice. Set aside because it was made obsolete and no longer needed by the one-time perfect sacrifice of Christ. Those literal things no longer conditions for covenant with God. The spiritual realities they only represented are the actual conditions that must be fulfilled to be in, and stay in covenant with, God. You don't need the literal way of the law to do that. The one who does it according to the spiritual way will condemn the one who does it literally but doesn't do it spiritually. That says a lot about the necessity to perform the literal along with the spiritual.

I agree that faith in Messiah fulfills the Atonement and the need to offer a Passover lamb. It does not fulfill the requirement to keep the Day of Atonement holy by not working in any secular manner whatsoever. That is how Yahweh has chosen for His people to honor what was done for them on that day.

Yes, he did that choose that.....as a condition for covenant with him. A condition that is now fulfilled in regard to what the literal observance only represented and shadowed.

This would not apply to Passover since Abib 14 was not a holy day. However, we are to honor what Yeshua did for us that day by remembering his death through partaking of the cup and bread on that day.

I do not include Yahweh's holy times as part of the man-made term "ceremonial law". To me, that would include laws pertaining to the sacrifices, priesthood and temple.

A law that tells you how to conduct a ceremony is a ceremonial law. That obviously differs from a law on how to conduct yourself around other people.

I have NO right or authority to make it mandatory since Yahweh already made it mandatory before Messiah, now, and will during the millennium .

Yahweh made the literal mandatory for a time. It was added for a time. But the spiritual reality the literal only represented has been, and is now required forever. There's no reason to think that not 'keeping' the worship laws HAS to be exactly to the letter of the law in the Millenium, especially since sacrifice for sin is finished.

Christians have no right or authority to abolish it by leaning on their own understanding and traditions rather than the Word of Yahweh.

Well, actually they do have the right. Was it the most prudent thing to do? No, I don't think so. But to say the gentiles have to be circumcised, keep the literal Sabbaths, etc. as a matter of law that if they do not do that they will be punished is just simply wrong. The remaining debt of Mosaic law, yes, that will be punished for not being fulfilled through the new way given to do that--the Holy Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

I have NO right or authority to make it mandatory since Yahweh already made it mandatory before Messiah, now, and will during the millennium . Christians have no right or authority to abolish it by leaning on their own understanding and traditions rather than the Word of Yahweh.

If one law of the Law of Moses is broken, all are broken. Correct?
Circumcision was a Law of Moses and was literal before the Law of Moses. Correct?
It can still be done today, no temple needed. Correct?
So it should be mandatory today. Correct?

Gal 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

This is Paul, the Pharisee of Pharisee who was 'blameless' under the Law, speaking saying 'we' and 'us'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? (Colossians 2:26-27 NAS)

Just some clear evidence that Paul did not teach that the literal MUST accompany the spiritual. And shows us how the spiritual actually fulfills and satisfies the literal, even though the literal is not literally done. No outstanding debt of Mosaic circumcision remains for the person who is circumcised in spirit.