S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz
They were reconciled to God, by Christ's Death, when they were enemies !
They were reconciled to God, by Christ's Death, when they were enemies !
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
We believe that all humanity is lost and born with a sinful nature, and can only be saved by a personal faith in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not by any human merit or performance.
Our Statement of Faith http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=7
Our Statement of Faith http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=7
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; Yes they were... in terms of Reconciliation ~~Accomplished~~ of which you do not seem to be able to comprehend. Reconciliation ~~Accomplished happened on the cross but Reconciliation ~~Applied does -not- occur until the elect come under the sound of the Gospel and believe it. It is at -that- point that5 the Holy Spirit Applies the Reco0nciliation to the elect sinner and the elect sinner --receives-- it. Notice;
Romans 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
In verse 10 reconciliation was accomplished by Christ on the cross and in verse 11 the elect --Receive-- that reconciliation when they believe the Gospel and until tjhety do they are -not- reconciled to God. Also you cannot apply verse 10 to unsaved elect because Paul was writing to -saved- Christians.
Again your problem is you do not understand the difference between Redemptioon Accomplished and Redemption Applied. Until you grab those 2 concepts you will continue in youir unbiblical doctrine.
Caio;
The Gravy Geezer.
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; I was wondering if the forum had a SOF... and... I -agree- with it!
:yes
Gravy Geezer
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; Yes and I have shown several times over how savedbygrace's understanding contradicts Scripture all over the place.
Jozinky
The better way, the higher way is to limit such conversations to what the living Word does say. I see that you've been doing this (as have other participants in this thread). We've studied in order to show ourselves approved as we rightly divide the Word. Leaving the understanding in our brothers and sisters to the ministry of the Holy Spirit who is our Teacher, our Comforter and our guide, is an exercise in trust, and I'll admit that it is very difficult to resist the urge to go head-to-head with brothers and even sisters when there is disagreement over doctrine. Still, one method, that of the Berean's has been commended and given as "more noble"; searching daily to prove what is being taught.
All such thoughts are considered within the terms that each Member has agreed to in exchange for the Service that is provided here on ChristianForums.net. Care is needed during our discussion so that we do not cross the line described in section 2.5 (referenced below). These announcements can be found by clicking on the "Quick Links" drop-down menu of our navigation bar and selecting "Terms of Service" and/or "Statement of Faith". The best part (for my guidance) is found in the Mission Statement which I encourage others to read often.
Each Member is relied upon to exercise their own good judgment regarding these matters. Moderators are available to assist in these efforts and it would serve each member's interest in the goal of abiding within their agreed upon terms to recall that Section 2.15 of the ToS calls to each: Please do not use the message board to air your grievances against other fellow members. If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know.
Cordially,
Sparrowhawke
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz
No, they were reconciled to God while they were enemies ! Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
No, they were reconciled to God while they were enemies ! Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; Once again you're confusing reconciliation Accomplished with reconciliation Applied... which I showed you right from Romans 5. You are taking vs 10 out of context and landing in false doctrine again.
There is -no way- that Paul was "reconciled" to God in actuality while he went about murdering God's people. True Christ Accomplished reconciliation on behalf of Paul on the cross but Paul was -not- reconciled until he -received- the reconciliation when it was -Applied to him when he met Christ in the Gospel. Otherwise how could he write 2Cor 5:20 if he believed he was already reconciled before he repented and was saved? Moreover I showed you your misuse of Romans 5:10 in applying it to unsaved elect because Paul was writing to -saved- folk... not unsaved elect.
Ye Gravy Geezer;
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz
No I am not, . Those Christ died for are while they are enemies, reconciled to God !
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
No I am not, . Those Christ died for are while they are enemies, reconciled to God !
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies. Yes you are!~! You're yanking vs 10 out of its context. =No= one is reconciled to God until he Receives the reconciliation, vs 11... and that only happens upon hearing and believing the Gospel.
Mr 16:15 And He said to them, Go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation.
16 He who believes and is baptized ~~will be saved,~~ but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And in being saved is when reconciliation is applied by the Holy Spirit and the person is then reconciled to God and not before.
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Notice that the promises of Christ come by way of the Gospel. And until a person hears and believes the Gospel he is outside of the promises of the Gospel one of which is Reconciliation. Another;
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
That's clear as a bell that unsaved elect have absolutely nothing to do with God, His Gospel or any of the blessings of the Gospel.... until...
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Which blood is made manifest in the preaching and believing of the Gospel.
You can deny all you want to but you're only denying plain language of the Bible.
Jozinky
Jozinky
Member
More Scripture....
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? And what is he born of a woman that he should be righteous?
Rhetorical question showing that all men are born in an unrighteous, unjustified state including the elect.
Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
None means absolutely none with but One exception; the Lord Jesus. All others are born unrighteous/unjustified. Same thing.
1Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
Notice that Paul says of Christians... such -were- some of you; which is acccording to vs 9... Unrighteous; unjustified.
1Pet 3:18 For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;
The exact same Greek word for "unjust"; "unrighteous"; is found in 1cor 6:9 and 1Pe 3:18. Once again Greek words show clearly what God is saying. He is saying that before a person hears and believes the Gospel he is unrighteous; unjust. That means he's -Not- justified.
Some folks who hold eternal justification say that the elect are never wicked. Ergo they deny texts such as Ps 58:3 include the elect. But to be Justified is to be Righteous for that's what being Righteous is. And to be Righteous is to not be Wicked. Therefore you are either one or the other, Righteous or Wicked; but you cannot be both at the same time. So eternal justification must of necessity say that the elect are never wicked because the minit you say they are wicked, even for just one milli-second, the false doctrine of EJ is finished because to be wicked is to be unjustified.
Jozinky
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? And what is he born of a woman that he should be righteous?
Rhetorical question showing that all men are born in an unrighteous, unjustified state including the elect.
Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
None means absolutely none with but One exception; the Lord Jesus. All others are born unrighteous/unjustified. Same thing.
1Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
Notice that Paul says of Christians... such -were- some of you; which is acccording to vs 9... Unrighteous; unjustified.
1Pet 3:18 For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;
The exact same Greek word for "unjust"; "unrighteous"; is found in 1cor 6:9 and 1Pe 3:18. Once again Greek words show clearly what God is saying. He is saying that before a person hears and believes the Gospel he is unrighteous; unjust. That means he's -Not- justified.
Some folks who hold eternal justification say that the elect are never wicked. Ergo they deny texts such as Ps 58:3 include the elect. But to be Justified is to be Righteous for that's what being Righteous is. And to be Righteous is to not be Wicked. Therefore you are either one or the other, Righteous or Wicked; but you cannot be both at the same time. So eternal justification must of necessity say that the elect are never wicked because the minit you say they are wicked, even for just one milli-second, the false doctrine of EJ is finished because to be wicked is to be unjustified.
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz
No I am not,but you are denying a Truth that is in Rom 5:10, that those Christ died for, are reconciled [past tense] to God, while they are present tense enemies ! Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
No I am not,but you are denying a Truth that is in Rom 5:10, that those Christ died for, are reconciled [past tense] to God, while they are present tense enemies ! Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky
Member
You're beating an empty drum by continuing to deny the context my friend which clearly refutes you.
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
No I am not,but you are denying a Truth that is in Rom 5:10, that those Christ died for, are reconciled [past tense] to God, while they are present tense enemies ! Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; OK answer this question please.
Do you believe the elect are born wicked? Ps 58:3 . Yes or No. I'll help you.
If you say Yes then the false doctrine of eternal justification that says the elect are born justified self-destructs.
But if you say No then you deny oodles of Scripture.
Your answer.. ?
Jozinky
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; No I fully affirm that reconciliation takes place while the elect are enemies of God. Scroll back & see.
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz
Thats a dumb question to ask. Where they not reconciled to God while being enemies ?
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Thats a dumb question to ask. Where they not reconciled to God while being enemies ?
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky replies; You will notice that the verse says Christians were reconciled -By His Death-. That refers to reconciliation ~~Accomplished; not Applied.
The ~~context~~ of vs 11, which you totally ignore, proves the point that reconciliation does not occur until the elect ~~receive~~ it in the Gospel.
Like I keep saying you're still confused and continue to deny Scripture
Jozinky