Condemned Already !

[savedbygrace57]

joz

No I fully affirm that reconciliation takes place while the elect are enemies
of God.

You deny that they are actually reconciled to God while enemies, and that is what the verse says.

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

You will notice that the verse says Christians were reconciled -By His
Death

Yes, but when ?

 

[Jozinky]

joz



Thats a dumb question to ask. Where they not reconciled to God while being enemies ?

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jozinky replies;
Context... Context.. Context!!! You keep refusing to acknowledge the context because it, as well as my "dumb" question, exposes you. No it's not a dumb question. Everyone uses that escape hatch when they are challenged qwith a question they cannot answer without showing they have an incorrect understanding of the Bible. It's a perfectly sane question in which your refusal to answer is most telling... because you're now trapped friend. And Yes they were reconciled while they were enemies... on the cross when reconciliation was accomplished... and in the Gospel when, as enemies, God ~~chenged~~ them by regeneration into His friends wherein they recieved the reconciliation.

Try to observe the Context of Scripture.

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

joz



Yes, but when ?

Jozinky here; In 2 places;
1; On the cross when Reconciliation was accomplished by Messiah.
2; When the elect hear and believe the Gospel wherein Reconciliation is then ~Applied~ to them by the Holy Spirit.

There I've answered your question now would you please extend the courtesy of answering mine?
Do you believe the elect are born wicked? Yes or No?

Joz.....

 

[Jozinky]

joz



You deny that they are actually reconciled to God while enemies, and that is what the verse says.

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jozinky replies; Folks... do any of you see the phrase " actually reconciled to God" in this verse that this man keeps on ripping out of its context and beating it like an empty drum??

Keep in mind Mr savedbygrace that other folks are reading these posts and seeing how you are mishandling the word of God.

So... your answer to my question please?

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Context... Context.. Context!!! You keep refusing to acknowledge the
context

You are denying what is found within the context, this Truth Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And let me add what else is stated within the context, that the reconciled, shall be saved by His Life ! Thats a promise to those who are reconciled by His Death while they are enemies !

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz on when:

Jozinky here; In 2 places;
1; On the cross when Reconciliation was
accomplished by Messiah.
2; When the elect hear and believe the Gospel
wherein Reconciliation is then ~Applied~ to them by the Holy Spirit.

Wrong, the when was while they were enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if,when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Folks... do any of you see the phrase " actually reconciled to God

Do any see that they were not actually reconciled to God ?

 

[Jozinky]

joz



You are denying what is found within the context, this Truth Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jozinky replies; What context??? You give none.

And let me add what else is stated within the context, that the reconciled, shall be saved by His Life ! Thats a promise to those who are reconciled by His Death while they are enemies !

Correct and the "reconciled by His Death" is a reference to reconciliation Accomplished, not Applied. The Application is stated in the ~~context~~ in vs 11 as when they -Receive- the reconciliation.

So... your answer to my question .... please.

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

joz



Do any see that they were not actually reconciled to God ?

Jozinky replies; LOL such an illogical answer is not worth addressing except to say you need a course in logic my friend.

Arguments from silence are weak and usually false.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Correct and the "reconciled by His Death" is a reference to reconciliation
Accomplished

of course its accomplished for them since they are actually reconciled. And those who are actually reconciled by His Death, while they are being enemies, they shall be saved by His Life !

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Jozinky replies; LOL such an illogical answer is not worth addressing

Thats because it does not say they were not actually reconciled to God, it says they were reconciled to God, and that is what it means.

 

[Jozinky]

joz on when:



Wrong, the when was while they were enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if,when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jozinky replies; I guess you either can't read or you skip over posts so here I'll repeat myself;

And Yes they were reconciled while they were enemies... on the cross when reconciliation was accomplished... and in the Gospel when, as enemies, God ~~changed~~ them by regeneration into His friends wherein they received the reconciliation.

At this point you are obviously thrashing about i9n an attmpt to cling to one single verse out of context and you continue to ignore my question. That speaks volums friend.

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

joz



Thats because it does not say they were not actually reconciled to God, it says they were reconciled to God, and that is what it means.

Jozinky replies; Absolutely agree... but not with -your- skewered view of "what it means".

Are you going to answer my question or not? Because if you don't... well then you're toast friend. But then again you're toast if you do eh!

Jozinky

 

[Jozinky]

joz



Thats because it does not say they were not actually reconciled to God, it says they were reconciled to God, and that is what it means.

Jozinky replies; Logic. Neither does it say they were football players but that does not make them football players!!!

Logic anyone??

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Absolutely agree... but not with -your- skewered view of "what it means".

It means what it says. They were reconciled to God while they were enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You are denying that, and saying that it merely makes their reconciliation to God possible !

 

[Jozinky]

Jozinky replies; Logic. Neither does it say they were football players but that does not make them football players!!!

Logic anyone??

Jozinky

Correction; Neither does it say they were --not-- football players but that does not make them football players!!!

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz

Neither does it say they were --not-- football players

Neither does it say they were not actually reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, while they were enemies, which is what you deny !

 

[Jozinky]

joz



It means what it says. They were reconciled to God while they were enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You are denying that, and saying that it merely makes their reconciliation to God possible !

Jozinky replies; Like I say you keep thrashing about with one out-of-context verse. Scroll back & see that I deny no such thing. You simply refuse to accept the obvious correct meaning of Romans 5:vsss 10 -and- 11.
Now for your info I am not going to address any more of your out-of-context references to Romans 5:10 sodon't waste your keystrokes. The folks here have more than enough to see the ruth for themselves. Especially seeing as how you squirmed out of answering my question y calling it "dumb".

Jozinky

 

[veryberry]

Romans 5: 9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood,(past tense) we shall be saved from wrath through him.(future tense)

The moment we put our faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, we were justified and we will be saved from the wrath through Jesus Christ. Paul is specificly speaking of being saved from wrath.(hell) This why it is future tense. He is not speaking of the promise we have now of being saved, He speaking of the actual moment we are being saved.

Romans 5: 10 - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

For if, when we were enemies,(This is past tense) we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,(this is also past tense), much more, being reconciled, We shall be saved by his life.(This is future tense)

When I put my faith in the death of Jesus Christ I was an enemy to God. Once I put my faith in the death of Jesus Christ, I was reconciled with God. Whats great about that reconciliation is that I will be saved from his fututre wrath. Once you are reconciled, you have the promise of salvation, and you will be saved from the wrath in the future. This is what it means when we say that we are saved.