Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

[iconbusters]

Consider the Flood and Attributes of God​

1. Consider God is love: 1 John 4:8.

2. Consider God does not change: Malachi 3:6.

3. Consider God is the same before the world began, during the Old Testament times, New Testament times and forever: Hebrews 13:8.

4. Consider God does nothing without a purpose, and His purpose will be accomplished: Isaiah 46:10.

5. Consider God purposefully brought the Flood as a judgment upon all mankind: Genesis 6:17.

6. Consider God is omniscient: Isaiah 40:28.

7. Consider every inhabitant on earth perished, with the exception of 8 souls: Genesis 7:21-23. This God foreknew before He sent the Flood because He is omniscient and because He purposed their demise.

8. Now consider the common assumption in exegeting John 3:16 in order to prove that “God so loved the world.” The assumption dictates that this verse must apply to all mankind, without exception, due to the obvious definition of ‘world.’

9. By applying this assumption, we must consider that God, who is love, and whose love is constant, and is not partial, Acts 10:34, and does not change, so loved all mankind in both the world of Old and New Testaments, otherwise the assumption would not hold true. And besides, who would dare claim otherwise.... that God hated Old Testament mankind yet loved New Testament mankind.

10. Consider the Conclusion: Despite His deep and constant love for all mankind, God purposefully and willfully destroyed all mankind living at the time of the Flood, except for 8 souls.

11. Now consider the love of God for those who perished in the Flood:

(a) God so loved the elderly, the maimed, the mentally incompetent, the crippled, the pregnant, mothers, infants, toddlers, children, etc., etc., that they were all DROWNED ON PURPOSE.

(b) Noah reached a few men with his preaching, though they ignored his warning, 2 Peter 2:5, but the vast majority on earth who lived further away never heard the Gospel. Yet God purposefully destroyed them knowing faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, Romans 10:17, which they will never hear.

SUMMARY​

Preaching God’s love for all without exception leads to a very perverted view of God’s love.

1. It preaches a love which fails to save those whom God loves.

2. It preaches a love for those who will never be saved because He has willed they never hear the Gospel.

3. To tell a person, “God loves you,” is of little comfort. For, according to many, God also loves those in Hell. His love has given you the free will to choose Christ or perish. Once God loves you, they teach, He always loves you, for God is love and His love does not change, even for those in Hell, despite the horror of their eternal torments.

4. Thus, according to many, there are two kinds of God’s love: one malevolent, the other benevolent. The malevolent love of God either stands by, doing nothing more to save you, though He has the infinite power and knowledge to reverse your course on the road to perdition. Of course, if He purposed your demise, He would never give a thought of intervening in your destruction.

However, the Bible teaches only one kind of God’s love: benevolent. God’s love never fails, 1 Cor. 13:8; it always accomplishes its purpose. And that purpose is to save His people, whom He has loved and foreknown from eternity, Matthew 1:21, Jeremiah 31:3. It is a love which intervenes and actually rescues those who are incapable of rescuing themselves, for men are naturally dead to spiritual truths, Ephesians 2:1. It is a love which comes first, before we could claim any genuine love for Him, 1 John 4:19. It is a love which loses none, John 6:39.

To teach, preach and believe otherwise is a sign and symptom of the tragic possibility that one may not know the true God.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

NEXT: Consider the Garden.

​

 

[hawkman]

(b) Noah reached a few men with his preaching, though they ignored his warning, 2 Peter 2:5,

Where are you getting Noah "reached a few men" and they "ignored his warning " ?

5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

but the vast majority on earth who lived further away never heard the Gospel.

What was this Gospel that Noah preached ?

Yet God purposefully destroyed them knowing faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, Romans 10:17, which they will never hear.

Why do you think they were "purposefully destroyed " ?

 

[iconbusters]

Hello hawkman:
Noah was a preacher of righteousness. He believed God, warning his wicked fellow citizens of the coming judgment, as well as the safety to be found in the Ark he was building, which was a type of Christ. They refused to believe him. Had the flood been local to Noah, it is true that all would have been evangelized. However, the worldwide nature of the flood did not allow Noah to evangelize the untold millions living outside his locale.

Our God is a God of purpose. Nothing comes to pass without His decreeing it be so. That includes the loss of a hair on our heads. Everything God decrees is done for a reason and a purpose.

Do you believe the flood was not caused by God on purpose?

 

[hawkman]

Do you believe the flood was not caused by God on purpose?

Of course . But I still have a question for you below .

(a) God so loved the elderly, the maimed, the mentally incompetent, the crippled, the pregnant, mothers, infants, toddlers, children, etc., etc., that they were all DROWNED ON PURPOSE.

(b) Noah reached a few men with his preaching, though they ignored his warning, 2 Peter 2:5, but the vast majority on earth who lived further away never heard the Gospel. Yet God purposefully destroyed them knowing faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, Romans 10:17, which they will never hear.

My question again is .

Why do you think they were "purposefully destroyed " ? Do you know ?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Consider God is love: 1 John 4:8.

Agreed, but what is the definition of LOVE?
God’s love is a passionless, immutable, holy (separated from evil, ethical Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth) disposition to favor (goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight,) according to the ethical loveliness and divine likeness of the object which is a bond of unity – Colossians 3:14 for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best for others); God himself and those “in Christ” being bonded in agreement.
When people read that "God is Love" they insert the idea that God loves everyone. This is false. Love is a volition to favor and sending a majority of people to hell definitely doesn't qualify as "favoring them".

8. Now consider the common assumption in exegeting John 3:16 in order to prove that “God so loved the world.” The assumption dictates that this verse must apply to all mankind, without exception, due to the obvious definition of ‘world.’

The word WORLD is ambiguous.
The Entire Universe - John 1:10; 1:3; 17:5
The Physical Earth - John 13:1; 16:33; 21:25
The World System - John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11 (see also similar usage in Gal 1:4 Paul)
All humanity minus believers - John 7:7; 15:18
A Big Group but less than all people everywhere - John 12:19 Then the Pharisees [argued and] said to one another, “You see that your efforts are futile. Look! The whole world has gone [running] after Him!”
The Elect Only - John 3:17
The Non-Elect Only - John 17:9 I pray for them; I do not pray for the world, but for those You have given Me, because they belong to You;
The Realm of Mankind - John 1:10; (this is very probably the best understanding of the word "world" in John 3:16 also)
Jews and Gentiles (not just Israel but many Gentiles too) - John 4:42
The General Public (as distinguished from a private group) not those in small private groups - John 7:4

Thus conclusions based on these premises are unjustified.

 

[iconbusters]

Hello Fastfredy0,
As I stated in my post, the typical assumption of many is that the 'world' of John 3:16 must be interpreted as including every inhabitant of earth. However, a serious word study will prove otherwise, as you have shown. But not all will do the homework required. So, rather than using a word study as proof, I used a commonsense approach that doesn't require a PhD to understand. "For God so loved the world that He drowned every man, woman and child in the world (except for 8 souls)." Does that project the sense of God's love for all?

It matters not what definition you wish to give 'love.' Anyone with common sense would never equate drowning with 'love.' Thus, if one is to be truly honest, one must reconsider the common interpretation of John 3:16, as well as the common misunderstanding of God's 'love.'

 

[iconbusters]

Consider the Garden​

A common belief we often hear is one that extolls a free will for all mankind, a free will which is the result of God’s love. God so loved the world that He decreed mankind would have the freedom to either choose or reject Christ. By so doing, man is the ultimate determiner of his eternal fate. Therefore, God being just, righteous and loving gives all men an equal opportunity to freely decide for or against Christ. The Gospel is then a sort of test to determine the outcome of one’s destiny. Some men’s decisions are righteous, while others are wicked. The fault lies with man, not God, who loves them.

But consider the Garden.

God gave Adam and Eve the opportunity to prove their love for Him through the test of obedience. Though they were imbued with original righteousness and without sin, they freely chose evil. It is there that testing ended.

So, rather than presupposing the Gospel is used by God as a test to determine one’s love or hatred of Christ, one must consider the failure of our progenitors. Are we more righteous? Are we wiser?

One must also consider the wisdom of God. By using one simple test, God has revealed the truth of the human race: They will freely reject Him every time.

No further testing is needed.

God is too wise to ponder whether or not Mary Jo and Billy Bob will receive and believe the Good News. Nor does God need to ‘look down the corridors of time,’ using His prescience to learn the outcome. They will freely reject Him every time.

Consider the Gospel as a call, not a test.

The Good Shepherd calls His sheep.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me (John 10:27).
Not all are Christ’s sheep (John 10:26).

The Good Shepherd is currently calling His sheep into His one fold (John 10:16). Not two folds – Jew and Gentile - as many falsely believe.

The question now arises: Why do some hear and follow, while others do not?

NEXT: Consider Grace.

 

[iconbusters]

Hello hawkman,

Scripture is quite clear that nothing takes place on earth without God purposing, decreeing and effectuating the exact outcome He planned.

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

God does nothing without a purpose. He also determines when, where, how and who without necessarily divulging the 'why.'

God drowned them all on purpose. He determined when, where, how and who in eternity, before the foundation of the world. And He always had good and righteous reasons for doing so.

 

[hawkman]

God does nothing without a purpose. He also determines when, where, how and who without necessarily divulging the 'why.'

The why . Corruption of the flesh , ALL flesh that is why a hard reset was necessary . A genetic problem . Noah was perfect in his generations . The flood was a judgement from God .

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

 

[iconbusters]

Yes. But then we must ask, 'How did Noah find favor with God?' How was he perfect, righteous and blameless

The why . Corruption of the flesh , ALL flesh that is why a hard reset was necessary . A genetic problem . Noah was perfect in his generations . The flood was a judgement from God .

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Yes, Scripture declares the wickedness of mankind. But we must ask, Why did Noah alone find favor in the eyes of the Lord? Why was he alone perfect, righteous and blameless? The Charles Stanley ministry believed it was because of Noah's righteous free will choice to obediently walk with God that merited favor/grace, according to their monthly magazine some years ago. Do you agree? Was Noah sinless, and therefore, 'perfect'?

 

[hawkman]

Yes. But then we must ask, 'How did Noah find favor with God?' How was he perfect, righteous and blameless

Noah was only perfect in his generations , other scripture bare this out . Noah was righteous and walked with God but he was not a perfect man .

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Noah was not a perfect man as we see in these verses . He was drunken .

And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

Do you now understand Noah was not a perfect man ?

Yes, Scripture declares the wickedness of mankind.

What the scriptures Gen 6:11-13 declare is so MUCH more than that . The corruption of ALL flesh and the corruption is terminal to the point that God said it is the end of all flesh before him !
God through his immense love for mankind preserved the bloodline that would produce the Son of God by Noah building the ark and leaving the terminal corruption taking place .

Do you agree? Was Noah sinless, and therefore, 'perfect'?

Jesus is perfect but Noah was not .

The Charles Stanley ministry believed it was because of Noah's righteous free will choice to obediently walk with God that merited favor/grace, according to their monthly magazine some years ago.

Are you an acolyte of Charles Stanley ? Not that there is anything wrong with that .

 

[iconbusters]

Noah was only perfect in his generations , other scripture bare this out . Noah was righteous and walked with God but he was not a perfect man .

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Noah was not a perfect man as we see in these verses . He was drunken .

And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

Do you now understand Noah was not a perfect man ?


What the scriptures Gen 6:11-13 declare is so MUCH more than that . The corruption of ALL flesh and the corruption is terminal to the point that God said it is the end of all flesh before him !
God through his immense love for mankind preserved the bloodline that would produce the Son of God by Noah building the ark and leaving the terminal corruption taking place .

Jesus is perfect but Noah was not .

Are you an acolyte of Charles Stanley ? Not that there is anything wrong with that .

Let's not get sidetracked from the OP Do you believe John 3:16 refers to the love of God for all mankind without exception?

 

[Arial]

The why . Corruption of the flesh , ALL flesh that is why a hard reset was necessary . A genetic problem . Noah was perfect in his generations . The flood was a judgement from God .

Not a genetic problem. A sin problem. And the flood did not solve that problem so that was not it purpose. Every man and woman that came out of that ark was the same as they were when they went in. A sinner. But the seed of the woman who would crush the serpents head and resolve the sin problem was in one of those who came out of the ark.

 

[hawkman]

A sin problem.

A sin of the sons of God . But the word sin in not mentioned in Gen 6 .

 

[hawkman]

Let's not get sidetracked from the OP

Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

Talking about Noah and God and I am side tracking the thread ?

Do you believe John 3:16 refers to the love of God for all mankind without exception?

In case you missed it there is a thread going if you are foregoing the Noah flood connection .

W

Thread 'Does God LOVE everybody'

Nov 16, 2024

You hear this a lot, but everybody really defines what they mean by love.

Deut 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

The word "delighted" according to Strongs:
Delighted = 2836. chashaq
Usage: The Hebrew verb "chashaq" primarily conveys a sense of deep affection, attachment, or love. It often implies a strong emotional bond or desire, whether between individuals or between God and His people. The term can denote both human and divine love, emphasizing a...

• Whatever
• Replies: 744
• Forum: Theology

• 

 

[Arial]

A sin of the sons of God . But the word sin in not mentioned in Gen 6 .

Neither is genetics. But is sin the problem or not. Yes or no and then we have derailed the thread enough. It is a good thread.

 

[electedbyHim]

A sin of the sons of God . But the word sin in not mentioned in Gen 6 .

Genesis 6:5 Then Yahweh saw that the evil of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 

[hawkman]

Neither is genetics. But is sin the problem or not. Yes or no and then we have derailed the thread enough. It is a good thread.

God said it was a corruption problem . Sin is not mentioned .
Gen6
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

 

[hawkman]

Neither is genetics.

Project for you find another that is said in the bible to be perfect in their generations . You need to ask yourself why are we told this . We know Noah was not a perfect man but something about him was perfect .

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello Fastfredy0,
As I stated in my post, the typical assumption of many is that the 'world' of John 3:16 must be interpreted as including every inhabitant of earth. However, a serious word study will prove otherwise, as you have shown. But not all will do the homework required. So, rather than using a word study as proof, I used a commonsense approach that doesn't require a PhD to understand. "For God so loved the world that He drowned every man, woman and child in the world (except for 8 souls)." Does that project the sense of God's love for all?

It matters not what definition you wish to give 'love.' Anyone with common sense would never equate drowning with 'love.' Thus, if one is to be truly honest, one must reconsider the common interpretation of John 3:16, as well as the common misunderstanding of God's 'love.'

Greetings, Icon.

I find this argument to be a construct designed to explain away why God would pave the way for salvation for anyone who turned from their sins and believed. It really proves nothing either way, it only presents a theory in keeping with a mindset IMO.

But in regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

Blessings,
Hidden