TULIP - Irresistible Grace

[brightfame52]

JLB

That’s the context.


Do you believe the context is about salvation?

That the payment for the work the men did is salvation?

Its about God being sovereign, and how men can see it as being unfair in how He deals with men, no matter what, even salvation. He has chosen to give eternal life to some, the vessels of mercy, and eternal damnation to some the vessels of wrath, all according to His will, and we men reason that unfair

 

[Whatever]

Do you believe God loves the world?

Yes, "the cosmos" Jesus said so.

Do you believe “the world” refers to people who are already saved?

I believe it refers to more than just people.

 

[Whatever]

Do you believe the context is about salvation?

That the payment for the work the men did is salvation?

I believe that Jesus is teaching that all those who make it to heaven have been given the same salvation.
A person who was a missionary and worked for the Lord for 80 years gets the same salvation as a murderer in prison who hears the gospel and believes and stays in prison the rest of his life.

Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

In the very next verse 20:1 He gives the story of laborers in the vineyard.
But Jesus still said: Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things?

Matthew 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Is it not lawful for Jesus to do what He wills with His own things?
All things have been given to Jesus by the Father.
Doesn't Jesus have the right to reveal the Father to whom He wills?
If not, why not?

 

[JLB]

Yes, "the cosmos" Jesus said so.

Can the “cosmos” believe?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:17

Can the “cosmos” be saved?


The world refers to the world of unsaved humanity.


Again, I ask do you believe God loves unsaved humanity?

 

[JLB]

I believe that Jesus is teaching that all those who make it to heaven have been given the same salvation.
A person who was a missionary and worked for the Lord for 80 years gets the same salvation as a murderer in prison who hears the gospel and believes and stays in prison the rest of his life.

The context is about working in the Lord’s vineyard.

Do you believe the payment for working in the Lord’s vineyard is salvation?

 

[JLB]

I believe it refers to more than just people.

So you it refers to unsaved people and possibly more than just unsaved people?

 

[Whatever]

So you it refers to unsaved people and possibly more than just unsaved people?

I'm getting tired of talking about who God loves or doesn't love. I'm more concerned about what God does or doesn't do. And I see a lot of examples in the OT of God preferring Israel and wiping out whole nations of people.
The Hittites, Emorites, Canaanites, Perrizites, Jebusites, Girgashites, and Amorites.

I don't care if God loved these people or not. I know He treated Israel differently.

 

[JLB]

I'm getting tired of talking about who God loves or doesn't love. I'm more concerned about what God does or doesn't do. And I see a lot of examples in the OT of God preferring Israel and wiping out whole nations of people.
The Hittites, Emorites, Canaanites, Perrizites, Jebusites, Girgashites, and Amorites.

I don't care if God loved these people or not. I know He treated Israel differently.

Yes Israel the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes Israel the elect.

Thats the world He so loved Jn 3:16

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Sure ! Public domain does not have to be referenced as per the rules .

KJV is in the public domain, but NKJV is still copyright protected. I assume a disclaimer at the bottom is good for NKJV. Please advise if each quote must be cited specifically.

 

[JLB]

Thats the world He so loved Jn 3:16

Thank you for finally admitting your belief that the world refers to the elect in John 3:16; people that you believe are already saved.

For God so loved the world elect that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvinism 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

Thank you for finally admitting your belief that the world refers to the elect in John 3:16; people that you believe are already saved.

For God so loved the world elect that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvinism 3:16

The world in John 3:16 is Israel elect

 

[JLB]

The world in John 3:16 is Israel elect

When are His elect saved?

 

[brightfame52]

When are His elect saved?

You not teachable. The only thing you need to know is that Tulip Truth is the Gospel, irresistible-grace

 

[JLB]

You not teachable. The only thing you need to know is that Tulip Truth is the Gospel, irresistible-grace

When are His elect saved?

I believe the scriptures teach us that people are saved by believing the Gospel message of salvation.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[Whatever]

For God so loved the world

In another thread named "Does God love everybody" (that is now closed for more posting) A lot of people brought up the passages where it says God hates certain people or groups. In order for you to prove that "hate" doesn't really mean "hate," you said:
"Hate means prefer one to the other."
Prefer basically means "to like, choose, or want one thing more than another."
In our context, the "thing" is people.

So God prefers some people over others? Or shows favoritism to some.
NKJ
Galatians 2:6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man . . .

ESV says God shows no partiality.
The Contemporary English Version says: " God doesn't have any favorites!"

So your idea that hate means that God prefers one person less than the person that He loves doesn't fly.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Hates = H8130 - śânê'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

 

[JLB]

In another thread named "Does God love everybody" (that is now closed for more posting) A lot of people brought up the passages where it says God hates certain people or groups. In order for you to prove that "hate" doesn't really mean "hate," you said:
"Hate means prefer one to the other."
Prefer basically means "to like, choose, or want one thing more than another."
In our context, the "thing" is people.

Yes. The Lord preferred Jacob over Esau to be the generational bloodline of the Messiah.

That’s the context of Romans 9.

 

[JLB]

So your idea that hate means that God prefers one person less than the person that He loves doesn't fly.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Hates = H8130 - śânê'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26

What does the Lord mean by hating your family?

 

[brightfame52]

When are His elect saved?

I believe the scriptures teach us that people are saved by believing the Gospel message of salvation.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

You not teachable. The only thing you need to know is that Tulip Truth is the Gospel, irresistible-grace

 

[Whatever]

What does the Lord mean by hating your family?

God is God and has no higher authority over Him. What we are told to do is not equal to what God does.

NKJ
Deuteronomy 32:39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal;

It it okay for you to kill and wound?