Converting to Islam or other religions

[wayseer]

Islam's Allah has provided yet another timeless Divine revelation which gives his prophet the right to rape and torture women of other religions.

Surat 4:24 (from the Quaran)
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

In short, allah the all merciful is affirming that any non-Muslim woman is fair game to rape provided she is captured first - "..Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned..." - how divine!

Not only do you pervert the doctrine of Christ you pervert the Qur'an.

4:24 says nothing of the sort.

 

[bhayes]

We can attack other religions all we want but the fact is nobody is going to heaven without Jesus. That includes YOU, who is no better then any Arab or other person for that matter. They need Jesus the Savior just as much you did (assuming you are a Christian.) I am friends with many Muslims and they are nicer people than most Christians an nobody can deny their sincerity in seeking God. But they are misled because they don't accept Jesus only Allah, who by the way is not a "moon god", there s no such fact or statement any wheres, I have been to the mosque and no moon god is mentioned. Instead of being ignorant and attacking why don't you try helping them?

 

[Classik]

Pls, ppl, let's not kick the ball out of the soccer pitch.

 

[Aardverk]

.........Islam's Allah has provided yet another timeless Divine revelation which gives his prophet the right to rape and torture women of other religions.

Surat 4:24 (from the Quaran)
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."

In short, allah the all merciful is affirming that any non-Muslim woman is fair game to rape provided she is captured first - "..Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned..." - how divine!

I really doubt that you are quoting that accurately! But, we all know that The Bible contains such horrors:

Numbers 31:17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Deuteronomy 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her. [NIV]​

Not a good example to set.

 

[Aardverk]

Ah, here it is for_his_glory:

4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.​

That appears to me to say that each soldier can rape one married woman - only. Not maidens.

I suppose the question is, which is most repugnant, telling the soldiers to kill ALL the boys and ALL the married women and take ALL the virgins for yourselves, as Moses did, or letting soldiers rape one married women that he is holding in his sword arm. i.e. the fighting is over and she is not resisting too hard (my guessed interpretation).

 

[wayseer]

That appears to me to say that each soldier can rape one married woman - only.

No wonder you have difficulty reading the biblical texts - you can't read the Qur'an either.

Please save your display of ignorance - it is embarrassing to say the least.

The Qur'an text you choose to interpret as a license by God to permit rape is not about what you think it is about at all.

This is really sick.

 

[Classik]

:toofunny :toofunny I saw his flaws in interpretation but decided to keep silent - knowing others would spot some of 'em.

 

[wayseer]

It is not the flaws of interpretation that is necessarily of concern - it is the Islamophobia that seeks to find structure for its lies.

 

[Claudya]

In an interview one guy that converted to Islam said he did it because I couldn't bear any longer what he thought was a one-sided christian relationship with God. He was tired of just passively receiving mercy and grace and blessings. He wanted to do something for God in return and thus converted to the more "legalistic" Islam religion.

 

[Aardverk]

No wonder you have difficulty reading the biblical texts - you can't read the Qur'an either.

Please save your display of ignorance - it is embarrassing to say the least.

The Qur'an text you choose to interpret as a license by God to permit rape is not about what you think it is about at all.

This is really sick.

Come on then smarty-pants. :p You have scathingly and very confidently knocked back two different interpretations, let us now have the benefit of your superior interpretation. Here are the words for you.

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.​

I would just emphasize that I did underline 'to me' to make it perfectly clear that it was my reading, uninfluenced by anyone else. Let us hear your interpretation uninfluenced by anyone else.


Obviously don't let it influence you but here is a Hadith I have found on the 'net. It is my underlining but I can't vouch for the accuracy of the words:

Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2150 p.577Abu Sai’d al-Khudri said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you except those captives whom your right hands possess." That is to say, captive women are lawful for them when they complete their menstrual period.(1479)"​

:dunno

 

[wayseer]

Come on then smarty-pants. :p You have scathingly and very confidently knocked back two different interpretations, let us now have the benefit of your superior interpretation.

Where does anything in the Qur'an permit rape - that has been your claim - that is what you have to prove. You have not show any passages that pertains to God giving permission for the rape of women. There is no hadith sanctioning rape. Consequently you are wrong.

I don't have to be smart to know what I read. Making a claim that the Qur'an condones rape is not only ignorant but is designed to try to create a climate of hatred and may well be vilification if you lived in Australia. There is no justification for your over the top claims. You owe every Muslim an apology.

 

[Claudya]

Where does anything in the Qur'an permit rape - that has been your claim - that is what you have to prove. You have not show any passages that pertains to God giving permission for the rape of women. There is no hadith sanctioning rape. Consequently you are wrong.

I don't have to be smart to know what I read. Making a claim that the Qur'an condones rape is not only ignorant but is designed to try to create a climate of hatred and may well be vilification if you lived in Australia. There is no justification for your over the top claims. You owe every Muslim an apology.

1. He quoted very similar sounding commands from the Bible. So I fail to see how he created a climate of hatred specifically towards Islam
2. He did quote a Hadith. Well, there's millions of hadtihs about everything on the internet, some of them mutually contradictive... but he did quote one.
3. Does the Qur'an at any point command the muslim conquerors to ask for the captive women's consent before taking them? Because having sex with a person without his or her consent constitutes rape. If the Qur'an neglects the point of the women's willingness then it does condone rape (much like that old testament text quoted earlier does, so it's not a specifically muslim thing), the fact that those verses were speaking about captive and married women underlines that.

You owe every Muslim an apology.

Oh you were being sarcastic? Haha, well played.

 

[Aardverk]

Where does anything in the Qur'an permit rape - that has been your claim - that is what you have to prove. You have not show any passages that pertains to God giving permission for the rape of women. There is no hadith sanctioning rape. Consequently you are wrong.

I don't have to be smart to know what I read. Making a claim that the Qur'an condones rape is not only ignorant but is designed to try to create a climate of hatred and may well be vilification if you lived in Australia. There is no justification for your over the top claims. You owe every Muslim an apology.

OK, happy to.

I humbly apologize to anyone of any religion or none who has been offended by my interpretation of those words.

Will that do?

Now, what is your interpretation of those words?

 

[wayseer]

OK, happy to.

I humbly apologize to anyone of any religion or none who has been offended by my interpretation of those words.

Will that do?

Now, what is your interpretation of those words?

I've given mine bit I will ask someone a little more qualified.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The question has already been answered but I would like to repeat it in my own words.
Anyone who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit is a true Christian.
As such, he/she would never convert to another religion.
It would be appropriate to start a new thread if your purpose is to argue the Koran.

 

[Aardverk]

The question has already been answered but I would like to repeat it in my own words.
Anyone who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit is a true Christian.
As such, he/she would never convert to another religion.
It would be appropriate to start a new thread if your purpose is to argue the Koran.

As a moderator chose to introduce those disputed words, I presume that it is OK to continue. It is very closely related to the OP.

The moderator's interpretation, and mine, has been 'rubbished' yet both 'rubbishers' have chosen to remain silent on their interpretations. An interesting decision indicating a lack of confidence I feel. In view of the insults, I did ask, "Let us hear your interpretation uninfluenced by anyone else" but obviously that was too onerous a task. ;)

Christians obviously can and do convert to Islam. You will obviously claim that they weren't good Christians but that, I don't think, is the meaning of the OP question.

 

[reba]

Where does anything in the Qur'an permit rape - that has been your claim - that is what you have to prove. You have not show any passages that pertains to God giving permission for the rape of women. There is no hadith sanctioning rape. Consequently you are wrong.

I don't have to be smart to know what I read. Making a claim that the Qur'an condones rape is not only ignorant but is designed to try to create a climate of hatred and may well be vilification if you lived in Australia. There is no justification for your over the top claims. You owe every Muslim an apology.

God did not write the Qur'an.

 

[reba]

No wonder you have difficulty reading the biblical texts - you can't read the Qur'an either.

Please save your display of ignorance - it is embarrassing to say the least.

The Qur'an text you choose to interpret as a license by God to permit rape is not about what you think it is about at all.

This is really sick.

Again God did not write the qur'an

 

[Classik]

Did you just use the multi quote button??? MIKE, are you asleep...or is the 2min timing thing a general problem? Hahahahah;)

 

[Knotical]

Wayseer - you have added words which misrepresent my post. PLEASE DELETE THEM WITHOUT DELAY.

Not that I am defending wayseer, but what words were added when he quoted your post? It looks identical to your original post.