Converting to Islam or other religions

[wayseer]

When you are faced with facts you can not dispute you drag up something for a smoke screen.

Does that include you?

You either believe what the Bible says or you don't.

Simplistic answers are another smokescreen. Belief is not a matter of either/or.

If you choose not to believe God's Word, then you are making it up as you go.

First you have define what you mean by 'God's word'.

If you choose to believe God's Word, then Jesus makes it very clear He is the only way to heaven. If you say otherwise, you are calling Jesus a lie.

Now you are compounding your problems. You are talking about 'God's word' and you introduce Jesus into your thesis. We don't know what Jesus said - we only have, what I assume you mean by 'God's word' - the Bible and the part called the NT was not written by Jesus or anyone that personally knew him.

You may think you are being very modern and tolerant and politically correct when pointing out the "virtues" of other religions, but in fact you are part of the great deception when you tell someone they are OK with God, when they are not. There is only one way to heaven, it is though Christ. That is what God's Holy Word teaches so that is what I believe as a Christian, a follower of Christ.

I am not sure to whom you refer - I assume it is me.

But to address your question - it is not a matter of political correctness - it is a matter of truth - it is a matter of dredging fantasy out of the Real. And the first thing here that needs address is Jesus comment about 'drawing all men'. Apparently you don't read these words as they stand but impose your own interpretation on them.

 

[Guest]

Alright. Just a question. What could prompt a Christian to convert to Islam? Few people have done this. Is there any justification in such a decision? What do you think?:dunno

when god draws you to salvation, he baptizes you with his spirit and flesh. it is therefore impossible for a christian to convert to anything else. if he converts to anything else, then you will know salvation hasn't come to him yet.

 

[Classik]

when god draws you to salvation, he baptizes you with his spirit and flesh. it is therefore impossible for a christian to convert to anything else. if he converts to anything else, then you will know salvation hasn't come to him yet.

Very true. Thank you for this

 

[for_his_glory]

You have provided us with your opinion that Muhammad was some sort of bloodthirsty warlord. All, the historical accounts indicate otherwise - as I have pointed out.

The point is, had you also read up a bit on Muhammad life you would not have rushed into your conclusions.

The fact that I study Islamic theology does not mean I'm a Muslin - in fact your statement is fallacious. What it does mean is that I don't accept the 'shoot from the hip' brand of theology which is little more than a thin veneer covering a 'I hate Islam' ideology.

I really don't mind if your disagree with me - but such disagreement has to be a substantiated argument - not fantasy.

I have any number of issues with Muhammad and Islam, theologically and philosophically, but that he was some sort of rampaging warlord is not one that can be justified.

I have done major studies on Mohammed, but to lengthy to get into as it would take me weeks to post all I have. That is why I only posted the Quaran to show what it already says to back up the things I said about him. I do apologize that I thought you might be a Muslim by your defense of Mohammed. Plus I never said I hated Muslims, I just hate what is written in their Quaran that is against that of the very God of all creation and the one I serve.

 

[for_his_glory]

I tend to use standard dictionary meanings rather than my own meanings for words. This is the first result that came up with a Google search:

devout: Adjective -
1. Having or showing deep religious feeling or commitment.
2. Totally committed to a cause or belief.​

If you wish to interpret 'devout' in some other way that is entirely up to you but this is what normal people mean.

I never said that I 'suddenly fled Christianity' those are your words, not mine. I have not 'fled Christianity', I am pushed to the fringes of it and, in an earlier age, I would have been executed because I think for myself and believe slightly different things from some. I can not be called a Christian on this forum but elsewhere I am called a Christian.

My move away from Nicene Christianity came about as part of the process of studying theology and finding that much of what I previously believed was simple fact and the inspired word of God was actually (almost) totally unsupported. Please remember that I have said many times in these pages that 'I know nothing'. I have always written it just that way to emphasize that my beliefs are my beliefs and not necessarily facts. If other people wish to believe that 'they know something', that is entirely up to them.

You will never see me criticizing anyone's beliefs, you may however see me questioning bigotry, bullying, misinformation, errors and questionable interpretations of words. Conversely, you will see me seeking the views of others when I really do not understand another's thought process. If any of that is objectionable to you, you can always put me on your 'ignore list'.

Before you do that: Are you alright Classik?

Is there a problem you wish to share? You seem to have changed in the last couple of weeks from a polite, humorous, easy-going, intelligent person into an 'angry teenager'. I have noticed that you ask a lot of questions but you very rarely answer them. It is as if you are holding everything in and trying to divert attention. In all sincerity, share your problem openly and it will probably feel better.

Aardverk, thank you for speaking from your heart as I have a small, but better insight now from where you are coming from and if I have ever come against those things you have posted which I am sure I have I do apologize as I see you a little more clearly now then before. I know what you mean by moving away from Nicene creed Christianity as I too had to do that and went on my own journey for truth and will be on that journey until that of Christ return when all truth will be revealed. Sometimes you just have to let go of everything you were ever taught and go back to day one and reconnect with God in a way that no one else could understand. I'll give your post reconsideration now and pray you find that of what you need for yourself.

 

[Knotical]

Not to start of flame war or anything, and maybe this is the topic for a new thread, but what did you guys (Aardverk and for_his_glory) object to in the Nicene creed?

 

[for_his_glory]

Classik, I too have seen you in a different light as before. I sometimes forget you are also on your quest of questioning things of life as even I was in my youth and something inside of me sees the compassion in your heart for all of humanity and how does one reach out to a world that is hurting as only being, but one person. Christ was one, but reached out to a whole world, but yet the world rejected him and hung him on a cross to die like that of a common criminal, but yet he was without sin. If I can help but just one from hurting, just imagine if all of us that have denied self and picked up our cross to follow in the footsteps of Christ we could in all unison help heal the hurts of the world by that of Christ working in us and through us. A Christian is to be Christlike in all our ways, but even the name Christian has taken on a bitter taste to the world by that of our actions towards one another.

Classik, Aardverk, thank you for a great revelation you both have given me and God bless both of you on your journey.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not to start of flame war or anything, and maybe this is the topic for a new thread, but what did you guys (Aardverk and for_his_glory) object to in the Nicene creed?

This part: We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

I can't speak for others beliefs, but this is not the true church mentioned in the NT.

 

[Classik]

Classik, I too have seen you in a different light as before. I sometimes forget you are also on your quest of questioning things of life as even I was in my youth and something inside of me sees the compassion in your heart for all of humanity and how does one reach out to a world that is hurting as only being, but one person. Christ was one, but reached out to a whole world, but yet the world rejected him and hung him on a cross to die like that of a common criminal, but yet he was without sin. If I can help but just one from hurting, just imagine if all of us that have denied self and picked up our cross to follow in the footsteps of Christ we could in all unison help heal the hurts of the world by that of Christ working in us and through us. A Christian is to be Christlike in all our ways, but even the name Christian has taken on a bitter taste to the world by that of our actions towards one another. Classik, Aardverk, thank you for a great revelation you both have given me and God bless both of you on your journey.

Thanks. You too are a blessing to us all

 

[Aardverk]

....... If someone says he's christian he may be just a church goer or one who enters a church once in a year - and has never made peace with God.

Yes, but what about those millions (me included) who go (went) to church every week, at least once per week, and have (had) total dedication to the God of The Bible? Think of a nun or a monk to illustrate my point. Why would such people need to be 're-born' just to suit the fashion made popular by Billy Graham?

When someone fills a form and gets to the part that says: 'religion', and writes 'Christian' does that make the person a true christian?

The point you seem to be missing is that THIS forum defines Christianity for the purposes of THIS forum. Anyone who does not 100% agree with the SofF should NOT call themselves a Christian on THIS forum - although I suspect that many do, not least one person active in this thread.

 

[Aardverk]

Not to start of flame war or anything, and maybe this is the topic for a new thread, but what did you guys (Aardverk and for_his_glory) object to in the Nicene creed?

It is certainly too big a subject to cover within this thread.

for_his_glory has demonstrated the potential complexity of the subject by quoting from the Constantinople creed rather than the Nicene creed. In fairness, I really had ALL the related creeds in mind as they are generally similar and start with 'I believe'. I suspect that all of what then follows in any version is not honestly believed by the majority of Christians these days.

To for_his_glory, I would point out that it says 'catholic' (lower case) so don't worry too much. It just means 'universal' or 'broad'.

 

[Aardverk]

Aardverk, thank you for speaking from your heart as I have a small, but better insight now from where you are coming from and if I have ever come against those things you have posted which I am sure I have I do apologize as I see you a little more clearly now then before. I know what you mean by moving away from Nicene creed Christianity as I too had to do that and went on my own journey for truth and will be on that journey until that of Christ return when all truth will be revealed. Sometimes you just have to let go of everything you were ever taught and go back to day one and reconnect with God in a way that no one else could understand. I'll give your post reconsideration now and pray you find that of what you need for yourself.

Thank you for_his_glory. I hope we can now communicate in peace and tolerance.

 

[seagullplayer]

Does that include you?



Simplistic answers are another smokescreen. Belief is not a matter of either/or.



First you have define what you mean by 'God's word'.



Now you are compounding your problems. You are talking about 'God's word' and you introduce Jesus into your thesis. We don't know what Jesus said - we only have, what I assume you mean by 'God's word' - the Bible and the part called the NT was not written by Jesus or anyone that personally knew him.



I am not sure to whom you refer - I assume it is me.

But to address your question - it is not a matter of political correctness - it is a matter of truth - it is a matter of dredging fantasy out of the Real. And the first thing here that needs address is Jesus comment about 'drawing all men'. Apparently you don't read these words as they stand but impose your own interpretation on them.

It would seem from your comments that we now know where you stand on the Bible. As I said no drama needed, you either believe it is the living Word of God or you don't.

To answer the OP's question you don't need to quote from any text other than the Bible, if you believe it is true.

I wonder where you get your definition of truth if it is not found in God's Word? Where do you find God's Word if not in the Bible?

How do YOU know what Jesus said if you don't trust the NT Gospel writers?

 

[Mike]

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I've moved this thread to the forum that it should have been started in from the beginning.
​

 

[Grazer]

Think about this, and think about the manner in which you are dealing with others. Stop with the insults, the snide remarks, the accusations. Start with the encouragement, the inspiration, and the strengthening of others.

I've noticed you and the other mods/admins are having to post this a lot lately

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