Could God's plan for the lost be this simple?

[Alfred Persson]

You think anybody today can show you that they are from the tribe of Judah? Not a chance. So that means it is all made up. They have created their own hybrid Jewish religion.

It was God that destroyed their City, Temple, Records and sent them packing for 2000 years. He has had nothing to do with them since. If you believe so then prove it. Just because some people fought their way back into the land area after 1900 hundred years does not prove anything spiritually. These “jews” have very right to drop their false doctrine and religion and become a Christian but they choose not too. I am amazed at the vast number of Christians who are ok with and stand behind a people who hate the very man they worship.

The NT calls them Jews:

Matt. 2:2
Matt. 27:11, 29, 37
Matt. 28:15
Mk. 7:3
Mk. 15:2, 9, 12, 18, 26
Lk. 7:3
Lk. 23:3, 37-38, 51
Jn. 1:19
Jn. 2:6, 13, 18, 20
Jn. 3:1, 25
Jn. 4:9, 20, 22
Jn. 5:1, 10, 15-16, 18
Jn. 6:4, 41, 52
Jn. 7:1, 11, 13, 15, 35
Jn. 8:22, 31, 48, 52, 57
Jn. 9:18, 22
Jn. 10:19, 24, 31, 33
Jn. 11:8, 19, 31, 33, 36, 45, 54-55
Jn. 12:9, 11
Jn. 13:33
Jn. 18:12, 14, 20, 31, 33, 36, 38-39
Jn. 19:3, 7, 12, 14, 19-21, 31, 38, 40
Jn. 20:19
Acts 2:5, 10
Acts 9:22-23
Acts 10:22, 39
Acts 11:19
Acts 12:3
Acts 13:5, 42-43, 45, 50
Acts 14:1-2, 4-5, 19
Acts 16:3, 20
Acts 17:1, 5, 10, 13, 17
Acts 18:2, 4-5, 12, 14, 19, 28
Acts 19:10, 17, 33
Acts 20:3, 19, 21
Acts 21:11, 20-21, 27
Acts 22:12, 30
Acts 23:12, 20, 27, 30
Acts 24:5, 9, 18, 27
Acts 25:2, 7-10, 15, 24
Acts 26:2-4, 7, 21
Acts 28:17, 19, 29
Rom. 3:9, 29
Rom. 9:24
1 Cor. 1:22-24
1 Cor. 9:20
1 Cor. 10:32
1 Cor. 12:13
2 Cor. 11:24
Gal. 2:13-15
Rev. 2:9
Rev. 3:9

 

[Alfred Persson]

Gods word is treasure. The pharisees didnt teach that.

This passage says nothing about pharisees.

They were different. A scribe new the law and could write. Some did believe the same but they were not the same. You, once again, are adding to the text information that is not there.

“scribes and Pharisee”. Short for….the religious elite. So far you are standing up for pharisees of old and the modern jew. Two people that hate Jesus. But someone like me, who wants to promote Jesus and his word above others is deemed a heretic. How backward can you be.

The Scribes are Pharisees, they followed the same tradition according to Christ:

1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? (Matt. 15:1-3 NKJ)

If they didn't have the same tradition, Christ would have rebuked them separately

Mt 23:23–28
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow…

Gamaliel, a Pharisee scribe/teacher of the Law, introduced as “well respected by the whole people [Gr. laos],” warns the council of Israel’s leaders that they might just be “fighting against God” in opposing the new movement.-Moessner, D. P. (2010). Luke-Acts. In J. J. Collins & D. C. Harlow (Eds.), The Eerdmans Dictionary of Early Judaism (p. 896). William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

 

[Marilyn C]

Sinning angels can have sex with humans, both Genesis and Jude's letter says so:

2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.
3 So the LORD said, "My spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years."
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men. (Gen. 6:2-4 NET)

In the OT "sons of God" always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). That is what Jude and Peter refer to when speaking of angels who sinned:

6 You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence, he has kept in eternal chains in utter darkness, locked up for the judgment of the great Day.
7 So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:6-7 NET)

Fornication covers all kinds of sexual immorality. The fallen angels committed fornication by engaging in sexual intercourse with females of the human species. Similarly though not equivalently, the men of Sodom, Gomorrah, and surrounding cities engaged in sexual intercourse with “another kind of flesh,” that is, flesh other than that of the females God created for them to copulate with. Jude has correctly deduced from the Sodomites’ demanding Lot deliver to them his guests, who they thought were human males, that the Sodomites and their neighbors practiced homosexuality (plus bestiality?).

Gundry, R. H. (2010). Commentary on the New Testament: Verse-by-Verse Explanations with a Literal Translation (p. 992). Hendrickson Publishers.

Nephilim - Hebrew `nephil,` meaning giant, a bully a tyrant NOT an angel.

 

[Cnkw3]

In John 5:24, those who obey Christ's word and believe, pass from death into life.

Thats not what it says. You are twisting scripture again. You have them obeying before they ever even believed. It doesnt work that way.

That exegesis is confirmed in Lexicons, for example " The Complete Word Study Dictionary" cited below.

AND as it’s the same Greek, same theme, only a different audience (living vs. dead in the grave), the meaning of "obey" is in both:



"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word (λόγον μου ἀκούων ) and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice (λόγον μου ἀκούων )
29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (Jn. 5:28-29 NKJ)


(λόγον μου ἀκούων )

191. ἀκούω akoúō

…

(IV) To obey (Luke 10:16; 16:29, 31 [cf. John 5:24; 8:47; 18:37; Acts 3:22, 23; 4:19; 1 John 4:5, 6]; Sept.: Gen. 3:17; Ex. 16:20; Deut. 11:27; 2 Chr. 20:14; Is. 48:18). Here belongs the phrase “he who hath ears, let him hear,” i.e., give heed, obey (Matt. 11:15; 13:9, 13 [cf. the phrase, “he who has a mind” in Rev. 13:18 {a.t.}; see also Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 13:9; 17:9, “he who has wisdom” {a.t.}]). In the writings of John as spoken of God, meaning to heed, regard, i.e., to hear and answer prayer (John 9:31; 11:41, 42; 1 John 5:15; Sept.: Ps. 10:17, eisakoúō [1522], to listen to).-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

Yes. Obedience is found in the word believe. I could go a little farther with more proof in John 3 but what’s the use. Just admit It….Your verses above DO NOT convey the same message. Its right out in the open for all to see.

 

[Cnkw3]

The Scribes are Pharisees, they followed the same tradition according to Christ:

1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? (Matt. 15:1-3 NKJ)

If they didn't have the same tradition, Christ would have rebuked them separately

Mt 23:23–28
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow…

Gamaliel, a Pharisee scribe/teacher of the Law, introduced as “well respected by the whole people [Gr. laos],” warns the council of Israel’s leaders that they might just be “fighting against God” in opposing the new movement.-Moessner, D. P. (2010). Luke-Acts. In J. J. Collins & D. C. Harlow (Eds.), The Eerdmans Dictionary of Early Judaism (p. 896). William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

Who cares? The point is….Did the pharisees teach false doctrine? Yes or no? Then they were bad, not good.

 

[Cnkw3]

Those are English translations of the Aramaic versions of the New Testament, which are themselves translations of the original Greek [although those who believe in Aramaic Primacy would dispute that]

MGI NT Peshitta Translation (2006) Copyright (c) 2006 Janet Magiera

MRD Murdock Translation of the NT Peshitta (1851)

NOR Norton Translation of the NT Peshitta (1851)


However, its elementary deduction the "spirits in prison" are in a section of Hades/Sheol. Christ died and then in Spirit went to preach to them.

They weren't in heaven.

This is a no-brainer.

Show me a real bible. Can you do that?

 

[Cnkw3]

No it isn't. Aramaic versions are used throughout the world by Christians, and have been for centuries.

However, its elementary deduction the "spirits in prison" are in a section of Hades/Sheol. Christ died and then in Spirit went to preach to them.

They weren't in heaven.

This is a no-brainer.

They were on earth when they were preached to.

 

[Cnkw3]

The NT calls them Jews:

Matt. 2:2
Matt. 27:11, 29, 37
Matt. 28:15
Mk. 7:3
Mk. 15:2, 9, 12, 18, 26
Lk. 7:3
Lk. 23:3, 37-38, 51
Jn. 1:19
Jn. 2:6, 13, 18, 20
Jn. 3:1, 25
Jn. 4:9, 20, 22
Jn. 5:1, 10, 15-16, 18
Jn. 6:4, 41, 52
Jn. 7:1, 11, 13, 15, 35
Jn. 8:22, 31, 48, 52, 57
Jn. 9:18, 22
Jn. 10:19, 24, 31, 33
Jn. 11:8, 19, 31, 33, 36, 45, 54-55
Jn. 12:9, 11
Jn. 13:33
Jn. 18:12, 14, 20, 31, 33, 36, 38-39
Jn. 19:3, 7, 12, 14, 19-21, 31, 38, 40
Jn. 20:19
Acts 2:5, 10
Acts 9:22-23
Acts 10:22, 39
Acts 11:19
Acts 12:3
Acts 13:5, 42-43, 45, 50
Acts 14:1-2, 4-5, 19
Acts 16:3, 20
Acts 17:1, 5, 10, 13, 17
Acts 18:2, 4-5, 12, 14, 19, 28
Acts 19:10, 17, 33
Acts 20:3, 19, 21
Acts 21:11, 20-21, 27
Acts 22:12, 30
Acts 23:12, 20, 27, 30
Acts 24:5, 9, 18, 27
Acts 25:2, 7-10, 15, 24
Acts 26:2-4, 7, 21
Acts 28:17, 19, 29
Rom. 3:9, 29
Rom. 9:24
1 Cor. 1:22-24
1 Cor. 9:20
1 Cor. 10:32
1 Cor. 12:13
2 Cor. 11:24
Gal. 2:13-15
Rev. 2:9
Rev. 3:9

Hahah. I know that. How did they know they were “jews”? They could follow their tribal records. When Paul made his appeal about his heritage; what did he say? “Im from the tribe of Benjamin”.
Those records were destroyed. How does anybody do it today? They dont !!!!!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Nephilim - Hebrew `nephil,` meaning giant, a bully a tyrant NOT an angel.

The meaning of Nephilim is debated.

To an unprejudiced mind, the words, as they stand, represent the Nephilim, who were on the earth in those days, as existing before the sons of God began to marry the daughters of men, and clearly distinguish them from the fruits of these marriages.-Keil, C. F., &; Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 1, p. 87). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.</blockquote>



Gen. 6:4 The identity of the “Nephilim” and their relationship, if any, to the marriages (v. 2) is perplexing. The word occurs but once more, in Num 13:33, where it refers to an indigenous population inhabiting Canaan. For 6:1–4 the primary question is whether the Nephilim are the offspring of the marriages or merely their contemporaries. The term “Nephilim” (nĕpilîm) is of little help solving the issue since its etymology is uncertain. “Nephilim” is a transliteration of the Hebrew, not a translation, which indicates a group or class. It is commonly related to nāpal, meaning “to fall”; thus the Nephilim are considered “the Fallen Ones.” -Mathews, K. A. (1996). Genesis 1-11:26 (Vol. 1A, pp. 335–336). Broadman & Holman Publishers.</blockquote>



The hannep̱ilîm were in the land “in those days” and “also afterward [וְגַם אַחֲרֵי־כֵן אֲשֶׁר, weg̱am ʾaharê-ḵēn ʾašer]—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them.” The sense of the phrase weg̱am ʾaharê-ḵēn ʾašer is that the hannep̱ilîm were not the offspring of the union of the sons of God with the daughters of man. Thus the hannep̱ilîm were in the land “while” (בַּיָּמִים הָהֵם [bayyāmîm hāhēm lit., “in those days”]) and “also after” (weg̱am ʾaharê-ḵēn) the time of the union of the sons of God and the daughters of men.-Sailhamer, J. H. (1990). Genesis. In F. E. Gaebelein (Ed.), The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers (Vol. 2, pp. 78–79). Zondervan Publishing House.


Targum Pseudo Jonathan gives these "fallen Ones" names:

Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names. (Gen. 6:4 PJE)


Context gives the most likely interpretation, not Apocrypha.

The Nephilim are fallen angels, contemporaries of the "sons of God" who also fell from heaven to take wives. Their children were considered "men of renown". There may be some allusion to the God-human offspring of the Titans in Greek mythology.

This is consistent with the book of Revelation which gives a telescoped prophecy showing Satan casting his fallen angels to the earth to prevent the birth of the woman's seed (Gen. 3:15 the Christ). This was long before the Archangel Michael and his angels cast them and the Dragon out of heaven (Rev. 12:7-9):

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. (Rev. 12:3-4 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hahah. I know that. How did they know they were “jews”? They could follow their tribal records. When Paul made his appeal about his heritage; what did he say? “Im from the tribe of Benjamin”.
Those records were destroyed. How does anybody do it today? They dont !!!!!

Bible is the Word of God, that's how I know. It calls them Jews, that's who they are, period. "This I know for the Bible tells me so."

 

[Alfred Persson]

They were on earth when they were preached to.

Christ was physically dead when He preached to them, so where "on earth" did He preach to them?

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
(1 Pet. 3:18-20 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Thats not what it says. You are twisting scripture again. You have them obeying before they ever even believed. It doesnt work that way.

Yes. Obedience is found in the word believe. I could go a little farther with more proof in John 3 but what’s the use. Just admit It….Your verses above DO NOT convey the same message. Its right out in the open for all to see.

No, I didn't. Read again.

 

[Hopeful]

No it isn't. Aramaic versions are used throughout the world by Christians, and have been for centuries.

However, its elementary deduction the "spirits in prison" are in a section of Hades/Sheol. Christ died and then in Spirit went to preach to them.

I don't know where you got that idea.
In 1 Peter 1:10-12, 3:18-20, we are told who Jesus "preached to" by the Spirit.
"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
And..."For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
Those prophets and people are in the grave/prison until Jesus returns.
He preached by the Spirit to them, before they died.
The key to understanding this is "by the Spirit".
If Jesus was doing any preaching in hades or wherever some like to think, it would have said "He preached" without adding "by the Spirit".

 

[Alfred Persson]

I don't know where you got that idea.
In 1 Peter 1:10-12, 3:18-20, we are told who Jesus "preached to" by the Spirit.
"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
And..."For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
Those prophets and people are in the grave/prison until Jesus returns.
He preached by the Spirit to them, before they died.
The key to understanding this is "by the Spirit".
If Jesus was doing any preaching in hades or wherever some like to think, it would have said "He preached" without adding "by the Spirit".

That would be an strong argument, IF your translation of the Greek weren't debatable. A literal translation destroys your "by the Spirit" point. Here are the possibilities found in Exegetical Summaries. It lists Lexicons, Bibles and Commentaries that differ from each other in [BRACKETS]:

3:19 in which a also having-gone b he-preachedc to the spirits in prison, d

LEXICON—a. ἐν ᾧ (BAGD I.11.c p. 585): ‘in which’ [BNTC; NRSV], ‘by which’ [KJV], ‘through whom’ [NIV], ‘in the spirit’ [NIC; NJB, REB], ‘in that state’ [WBC], ‘it was in the spirit that’ [NAB], ‘in his spiritual existence’ [TEV], not explicit [CEV, NLT].

b. aorist pass. (deponent = act.) participle of πορεύομαι (LN 15.10): ‘to go’ [BNTC, LN, NIC, WBC; all versions except CEV], not explicit [CEV].

c. aorist act. indic. of κηρύσσω (LN 33.256) (BAGD 2.b.β. p. 431): ‘to preach’ [BAGD, LN, NIC; all versions except NRSV, REB], ‘to proclaim’ [BAGD], ‘to make proclamation’ [BNTC, WBC; NRSV, REB].

d. φυλακή (LN 7.24) (BAGD 3. p. 867): ‘prison’ [BAGD, BNTC, LN, NIC; all versions except REB, TEV], ‘refuge’ [WBC]. The phrase ἐν φυλακῇ is translated ‘imprisoned’ [REB, TEV].

QUESTION—What is the meaning of ἐν ᾧ ‘in which’ and what is the antecedent to which it refers?

1. It refers to πνεύματι.

1.1 It means as a spirit or spiritual being [EGT, TG, TH]. It means in his spiritual mode of existence or in the spiritual realm [Alf, BNTC, IVP, NIBC, NIC, TNTC; NAB, NJB, REB, TEV, TNT].

1.2 It means through the instrumentality of the Holy Spirit [NTC; KJV, NIV].

2. It refers to ζῳοποιηθεὶς δὲ πνεύματι ‘made alive in the Spirit’ and means in his risen state [WBC].

3. It refers to the whole process of the passion and resurrection of 3:18 and means ‘in the course of which’ [Sel].

QUESTION—What relationship is indicated by καί ‘also’?

1. It introduces another activity of Christ ‘in the spirit’, in addition to being resurrected [BNTC, NIBC, TNTC].

2. It means ‘even’ [Sel, WBC]: Christ even went to the spirits in prison.

3. It indicates sequence [NTC]: it was after the resurrection that Christ went and preached.

QUESTION—Who are the spirits he is referring to?

1. They are the spirits of the people of Noah’s generation [Alf, ICC, TG, TNTC; NJB, TEV].

2. They are supernatural beings.

2.1 They are fallen angels [NTC].

2.2 They are the fallen angels of Genesis 6:1–4 who married human women and had offspring by them [BNTC, EGT, IVP, NCBC, NIBC, NIC, Sel].

2.3 They are evil spirit beings who are the spiritual offspring of the fallen angels of Genesis 6:1–4 who married human women and had offspring by them [WBC].

QUESTION—What was the nature of the preaching?

1. It was a proclamation of Christ’s victory over the spiritual forces of darkness [BNTC, IVP, NIC, NTC, Sel, WBC].

2. It was evangelistic preaching urging repentance and offering forgiveness.

2.1 Christ was evangelizing the fallen angels [EGT, NCBC].

2.2 Christ was evangelizing people who had died [Alf, ICC, TG].

2.3 It was when the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to the people of Noah’s day [TNTC].

QUESTION—What is the prison, and where is it located?

1. It is the region of the dead [ICC]. It is that place of the dead known as Sheol in the OT or Hades in the NT [Alf, EGT, NIBC, Sel, TG].

2. It was the place where the spirits of fallen angels are bound in the underworld [NCBC].

3. It was a haunt of evil spirits where they attempted to take refuge [WBC].

4. It is a prison in the heavens [IVP]. It is a strata in the plurality of the heavens in the upper regions [BNTC].

5. It is hell [TNTC].

QUESTION—When did Christ preach?

1. He preached between the crucifixion and the resurrection [EGT, NCBC, Sel, TH].

2. He preached between the crucifixion and the ascension [ICC].

3. He preached after the resurrection [IVP, NIC, NTC, WBC].

4. He preached at the time of the ascension [BNTC].

5. During the time of Noah the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to Noah’s contemporaries [TNTC].

Abernathy, D. (2008). An Exegetical Summary of 1 Peter (2nd ed., pp. 136–138). SIL International.



I interpret Christ's human spirit was "quickened, strengthened, infused with life" by the Holy Spirit and while "in the Spirit" protecting it from the fires of Hades and the Abyss, He went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Two points to consider.
1) Christ did no sin therefore He didn't deserve any torment so it is right to shield Him from the fire.
2) Christ is appearing as a conquering preacher of righteousness, His human spirit should be clothed with the Divine Presence, Shekhina Glory.

So, while strengthened/protected/Glorified by the Holy Spirit Christ's human spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison, which is somewhere in Hades/Sheol.

18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,
19 in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 Young's Literal Translation)

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 ASV)

That fits the literal Greek and the OT concept of human spirits getting weak or revived by the Divine Spirit.

The Son is in two natures, fully God and fully human. None of this is about His divine nature.

But I have provided you with all the possibilities so you can study it further.

 

[keiw1]

I cited the WatchTower where they added their own words to the Word of God, to diminish God's Word and steal its effect on readers.

This quote from the WatchTower Magazine is an example of Sorcery:

13 By means of “the faithful and discreet slave,” Jesus has built up a remarkable organization on earth to promote pure worship. How do you feel about that organization? In response, perhaps you think of the words of the apostle Peter, who said to Jesus: “Whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) Where would any of us be today if we had not come in contact with Jehovah’s organization? Through it, Christ makes sure that we are well-fed spiritually. He also trains us to carry out our ministry effectively. Further, he helps us to put on “the new personality,” so that we are pleasing to Jehovah.—Eph. 4:24. -w22 July p. 11-13

They know the Word of God is powerful, effects readers inwardly, cutting to the quick:

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb. 4:12 NKJ)

By adding their words to spliced and diced scripture, they satanically rob some of that power for their own words. That is Sorcery.

Notice the connection, God made it Himself:

2 "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
3 "Your eyes have seen what the LORD did at Baal Peor; for the LORD your God has destroyed from among you all the men who followed Baal of Peor.
4 "But you who held fast to the LORD your God are alive today, every one of you.
5 "Surely I have taught you statutes and judgments, just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should act according to them in the land which you go to possess.
6 "Therefore be careful to observe them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes, and say,`Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.' (Deut. 4:2-6 NKJ)

By adding man's word to God's word, Baal (Satan) is being followed, not God.

These things are written in the Holy Scriptures for our instruction, so that we take heed to do all Yahweh our God has commanded we do, and not turn to the left or the right. Like frontlets, we are to keep God's word before our eyes continually, when we lay down and when we get up and when we walk on the way.

The WatchTower wants its victims do that with their words, not God's.

You did not refute that allegation. Ignoring it isn't the same as refuting it. Try again.

Jesus appointed his real teachers on earth, so by listening to them in all things is a direct teaching of the bible. And it says if one rejects those teachers are rejecting God and Jesus as well. -Luke 10:16) (Eph 5:23--Jesus is the head of the congregation.
As well Jesus speaking of his brothers says--Whatever you do to the least of one of these you do to me--that includes listening to them. As the true followers did back then-Acts 2:42

If you are an ex JW, please do not talk to me.

 

[Hopeful]

That would be an strong argument, IF your translation of the Greek weren't debatable. A literal translation destroys your "by the Spirit" point. Here are the possibilities found in Exegetical Summaries. It lists Lexicons, Bibles and Commentaries that differ from each other in [BRACKETS]:

3:19 in which a also having-gone b he-preachedc to the spirits in prison, d

LEXICON—a. ἐν ᾧ (BAGD I.11.c p. 585): ‘in which’ [BNTC; NRSV], ‘by which’ [KJV], ‘through whom’ [NIV], ‘in the spirit’ [NIC; NJB, REB], ‘in that state’ [WBC], ‘it was in the spirit that’ [NAB], ‘in his spiritual existence’ [TEV], not explicit [CEV, NLT].

b. aorist pass. (deponent = act.) participle of πορεύομαι (LN 15.10): ‘to go’ [BNTC, LN, NIC, WBC; all versions except CEV], not explicit [CEV].

c. aorist act. indic. of κηρύσσω (LN 33.256) (BAGD 2.b.β. p. 431): ‘to preach’ [BAGD, LN, NIC; all versions except NRSV, REB], ‘to proclaim’ [BAGD], ‘to make proclamation’ [BNTC, WBC; NRSV, REB].

d. φυλακή (LN 7.24) (BAGD 3. p. 867): ‘prison’ [BAGD, BNTC, LN, NIC; all versions except REB, TEV], ‘refuge’ [WBC]. The phrase ἐν φυλακῇ is translated ‘imprisoned’ [REB, TEV].

QUESTION—What is the meaning of ἐν ᾧ ‘in which’ and what is the antecedent to which it refers?

1. It refers to πνεύματι.

1.1 It means as a spirit or spiritual being [EGT, TG, TH]. It means in his spiritual mode of existence or in the spiritual realm [Alf, BNTC, IVP, NIBC, NIC, TNTC; NAB, NJB, REB, TEV, TNT].

1.2 It means through the instrumentality of the Holy Spirit [NTC; KJV, NIV].

2. It refers to ζῳοποιηθεὶς δὲ πνεύματι ‘made alive in the Spirit’ and means in his risen state [WBC].

3. It refers to the whole process of the passion and resurrection of 3:18 and means ‘in the course of which’ [Sel].

QUESTION—What relationship is indicated by καί ‘also’?

1. It introduces another activity of Christ ‘in the spirit’, in addition to being resurrected [BNTC, NIBC, TNTC].

2. It means ‘even’ [Sel, WBC]: Christ even went to the spirits in prison.

3. It indicates sequence [NTC]: it was after the resurrection that Christ went and preached.

QUESTION—Who are the spirits he is referring to?

1. They are the spirits of the people of Noah’s generation [Alf, ICC, TG, TNTC; NJB, TEV].

2. They are supernatural beings.

2.1 They are fallen angels [NTC].

2.2 They are the fallen angels of Genesis 6:1–4 who married human women and had offspring by them [BNTC, EGT, IVP, NCBC, NIBC, NIC, Sel].

2.3 They are evil spirit beings who are the spiritual offspring of the fallen angels of Genesis 6:1–4 who married human women and had offspring by them [WBC].

QUESTION—What was the nature of the preaching?

1. It was a proclamation of Christ’s victory over the spiritual forces of darkness [BNTC, IVP, NIC, NTC, Sel, WBC].

2. It was evangelistic preaching urging repentance and offering forgiveness.

2.1 Christ was evangelizing the fallen angels [EGT, NCBC].

2.2 Christ was evangelizing people who had died [Alf, ICC, TG].

2.3 It was when the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to the people of Noah’s day [TNTC].

QUESTION—What is the prison, and where is it located?

1. It is the region of the dead [ICC]. It is that place of the dead known as Sheol in the OT or Hades in the NT [Alf, EGT, NIBC, Sel, TG].

2. It was the place where the spirits of fallen angels are bound in the underworld [NCBC].

3. It was a haunt of evil spirits where they attempted to take refuge [WBC].

4. It is a prison in the heavens [IVP]. It is a strata in the plurality of the heavens in the upper regions [BNTC].

5. It is hell [TNTC].

QUESTION—When did Christ preach?

1. He preached between the crucifixion and the resurrection [EGT, NCBC, Sel, TH].

2. He preached between the crucifixion and the ascension [ICC].

3. He preached after the resurrection [IVP, NIC, NTC, WBC].

4. He preached at the time of the ascension [BNTC].

5. During the time of Noah the preincarnate Christ preached through Noah to Noah’s contemporaries [TNTC].

Abernathy, D. (2008). An Exegetical Summary of 1 Peter (2nd ed., pp. 136–138). SIL International.



I interpret Christ's human spirit was "quickened, strengthened, infused with life" by the Holy Spirit and while "in the Spirit" protecting it from the fires of Hades and the Abyss, He went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Two points to consider.
1) Christ did no sin therefore He didn't deserve any torment so it is right to shield Him from the fire.
2) Christ is appearing as a conquering preacher of righteousness, His human spirit should be clothed with the Divine Presence, Shekhina Glory.

So, while strengthened/protected/Glorified by the Holy Spirit Christ's human spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison, which is somewhere in Hades/Sheol.

18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,
19 in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 Young's Literal Translation)

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 ASV)

That fits the literal Greek and the OT concept of human spirits getting weak or revived by the Divine Spirit.

The Son is in two natures, fully God and fully human. None of this is about His divine nature.

But I have provided you with all the possibilities so you can study it further.

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" (1 Peter 3:19)
By which what?
By the Spirit, mentioned in verse 18.
As 1 Peter 1:9-11 have already illustrated, He went by the Spirit in the days long past, using prophets to preach to those now in graves.

Your POV is an attempt to legitimize a false dogma of some second chance at righteousness after death.
It is written..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27)
Men only get one shot at getting it right.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus appointed his real teachers on earth, so by listening to them in all things is a direct teaching of the bible. And it says if one rejects those teachers are rejecting God and Jesus as well. -Luke 10:16) (Eph 5:23--Jesus is the head of the congregation.
As well Jesus speaking of his brothers says--Whatever you do to the least of one of these you do to me--that includes listening to them. As the true followers did back then-Acts 2:42

If you are an ex JW, please do not talk to me.

I'm not, never was baptized. But I learned their doctrines, and they are from the pit of hell.

 

[Alfred Persson]

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" (1 Peter 3:19)
By which what?
By the Spirit, mentioned in verse 18.
As 1 Peter 1:9-11 have already illustrated, He went by the Spirit in the days long past, using prophets to preach to those now in graves.

Your POV is an attempt to legitimize a false dogma of some second chance at righteousness after death.
It is written..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27)
Men only get one shot at getting it right.

No, I follow the literal meaning of the Greek. Your interpretation changes "in which" to "by which", that's a world of difference.

The text is controversial because the Catholic Church established the basic doctrines about hell that persist among Protestants today.

I hope you rethink this, look at what Jews in Christ's day, who became Christians like the apostle Paul did, and see what they believed as Jews. Then see what they changed when they became Christians. When you do that, you will discard what the Catholic Magisterium established, they simply had no clue what scripture says.

 

[keiw1]

I'm not, never was baptized. But I learned their doctrines, and they are from the pit of hell.

Sad to hear, that means you dont know what Jesus teaches, thus cannot obey him and remain in Gods wrath. The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers, as does true God worship history.

 

[Hopeful]

No, I follow the literal meaning of the Greek. Your interpretation changes "in which" to "by which", that's a world of difference.

There is no difference at all.
"In", "By': the end result is the teachings got done by the Holy Spirit in the past.
Like it says in 1 Peter 1:9-11.

The text is controversial because the Catholic Church established the basic doctrines about hell that persist among Protestants today.

I don't follow false church's philosophies.

I hope you rethink this, look at what Jews in Christ's day, who became Christians like the apostle Paul did, and see what they believed as Jews. Then see what they changed when they became Christians. When you do that, you will discard what the Catholic Magisterium established, they simply had no clue what scripture says.

It is the believers of the false "hell-purgatory" doctrine that proffer the Jesus went to hell to teach the already dead doctrine.