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could Jerusalem be the harlot?

Shilohsfoal said:
There is not more than one abomination of desolation and it hasnt happened yet.

You are wrong.

Shilohsfoal said:
I cant understand how christians let themselves be lead by non believers.My goodness people.Josephus was an unbeliever.

Josephus is not my source. My source is the Greek OT Bible, the Septuagint, the WORD OF GOD. Is that good enough? Both Maccabean books speak of the abomination desolation, before Jesus took on flesh. Every Jew was aware of Antiochus and how his men roasted and slaughtered believing Jews, sacrificing pigs in the Temple to Zeus...

Are you AWARE of what that means to a worshiping Jew?

It's an ABOMINATION, that's what it is...

Perhaps you should check your history. Jews were forced to eat pig, those who refused were slaughtered, until Judas revolted with his family and other faithful Jews eventually removed the Selecuids from Israel.

And the Jews of Christ's time continued to celebrate the cleansing of the Abomination..

Shilohsfoal said:
Do you really believe the wicked people understand the book when the scripture says the wicked shall not understand?

We are talking about an historical event that happened and is referenced in the bible. Anyone can see it, this information is not meant only for believers. The Abomination refered to in Daniel and Maccabees is what I have already discussed. We are speaking of historical realities, not prophesies.

Regards
 
lol, i am hebrew and my dad even talked about the maccabean revolution at times. the book of maccabees in reference to that event is considered accurate by archeologists.
 
Jesus speaking to his followers said when you see the abomination of desolation stand where it ault not,then those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountauins.These words spoken by my Lord is proof that the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel had not happened.
I dont care what those who have not eyes to see or ears to hear say about it.They are wrong simple as that .
And just to let you know.The book of Daniel chapter 11 is about the time of the end.Not thousands of years before the time of the end.If you understood any of that chapter ,you would have noticed that it is taking place now.Half of the chapter has taken place in your own lifetime but you havnt even paid any attention to it .


Why havnt you paid attention to the word of God?
Why ?
Because someone told you these things have already taken place,thats why.
Now you go and teach others that it has alreadsy taken place so thast they will not understand.
 
Rev17;15
And he saith unto me,The waters which thou sawest,where the whore sitteth,are peoples,and multitudes,and nations,and tongues.


The many waters the scripture is speaking of are people from many countries.

Here are the demographics of Israel copied from Wikipedia

As of 2009, Israel's population is 7.5 million.[3] Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic.[1] Hebrew is the primary language of the state and is spoken by the majority of the population. Arabic is spoken by the Arab minority and Jews who immigrated to Israel from Arab lands (by 2002 these Jews and their descendants constituted about 40% of Israel's population).[241] As of 2008, Arab citizens of Israel comprise just over 20% of the country's total population.[242]

Many Israelis communicate reasonably well in English, as many television programs are in English and English is taught from the early grades in elementary school. As a country of immigrants, many languages can be heard on the streets. Due to mass immigration from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia (some 120,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel)[243] Russian and Amharic are widely spoken.[244] Between 1990 and 1994, the Russian immigration increased Israel's population by twelve percent.[245] Out of more than one million Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel,[246] about 300,000 are not Jewish.[247]

Over the last decade, large numbers of migrant workers from Romania, Thailand, China, Africa and South America have settled in Israel. Exact figures are unknown as many of them are living in the country illegally,[248] but estimates run in the region of 200,000.[249] Over 16,000 African asylum seekers have entered Israel in recent years.
 
intrestingly Jesus cast out a legion of demons who went into a herd of pigs, the pigs run into the water,
was it meant to happen this way, for a reason, because of what you have shared about pigs being sacrificed in the temple, which would have been an abomination im sure to Isreal.
ive never understood why the demon said to Jesus have you come to torment us before our time.
then they enter another host a herd of pigs, who run into the lake and drown, i could not understand why the demons finding another host, would want to lose it so quickly. by the pigs drowning.
A pig was is an unclean thing, as is a demon,home of every unclean spirit, the Harlot.
the anti christ in the temple. the abomination that causes desolation, standing were it should not,
the image of the beast?
the abomination that causes desolation, surrounding Jerusalem Mark 21-10
is the abomination that causes desolation a mulitude i the name of allah?, the flag of allah placed in the temple.?

the star of David, not the star of David.
its also used alot in free masonary, and the Illuminati, the Rothchilds who are head of the illuminati, are Jewish and funded alot of Israel, the supreme court.
it is said there is a large zion part to the illuminati, the only problem being is they confess satan as their god.
like in Eziekiel, when he is shown the men behind closed doors worshiping the sun god satan
The illuminati, conrol governments,put presidents into power to do their will, and to look after thier intrests, or remove them by assasination if nessary. the military, oil, most people we see are their front men, after putting president obama into power, he gave them billions of dollars, the presidents gang, point break, where has all the money gone, the crime of the century,the biggest hiest in history, done before your very eyes.
mr obama also put other illuminati frontmen into key postions head of the treasury, head of the cia.
they control fianace, their new world bank, fedral reserves, central banks. soon the micro chip, mark of the beast?
how much control they have other Israel, from behind the scences?

i often wonder why on 9/11 three Israelies, were stopped on the George Washington bridge, George washington a mason, with a van full of explosives, 40 other Israelies were also arrested, some serving military, then it all just went away? silence.it has been hinted that the illuminati, had some thing to do with 9/11 by one of Italys top, masons. ? johnny

EZEKIEL 20-33-49 THE BURNING EZEKIEL 23 THE HARLOT JERUSALEM

i had a dream last night in the dream i entered a room, there was a young women, though unknown to me, in the dream, i i had real compassion for, she was in quiet a terrible condition, half her hair was missing, dirty clothes, dress, an abused look about her, like a prostitute, harlot.
in my dream, she was being restored, i knew in my heart, she was beginning the road back,
having worked with heroin addicts , drug dealers, prostitutes in Spain, she had started rehab.
first i though she was over half way, back, maybe two thirds of the way, i felt in my heart, she would make a complete recovery.
then i saw a list of pages, pass before my eyes, all the abominations she was still vunrable to, and could easliy be bound by again, things were in the balance as to weather she would continuie forward, i believed she would, but there was still the chance, she could go back and the work undone.
pray for Jerusalem, Israel. may have been just a dream, may be relevent, i certainly felt compassion.
in revelations 17, 18, 19 we see the mother of Harlots, Jerusalem

revelations 20 we see Jesus reigning for a thousand years, satan is bound then loosened, gathers an army, God puts a hook through their jaw, and drags them down to Israel for slaughter.
Jerusalem in chapter 20 revelations is referred to as the beloved city. Jerusalem.20-9
johnny
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Jesus speaking to his followers said when you see the abomination of desolation stand where it ault not,then those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountauins.These words spoken by my Lord is proof that the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel had not happened.
I dont care what those who have not eyes to see or ears to hear say about it.They are wrong simple as that .
And just to let you know.The book of Daniel chapter 11 is about the time of the end.Not thousands of years before the time of the end.If you understood any of that chapter ,you would have noticed that it is taking place now.Half of the chapter has taken place in your own lifetime but you havnt even paid any attention to it .


Why havnt you paid attention to the word of God?
Why ?
Because someone told you these things have already taken place,thats why.
Now you go and teach others that it has alreadsy taken place so thast they will not understand.
Ah...Yes! But the end of what? :chin
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Jesus speaking to his followers said when you see the abomination of desolation stand where it ault not,then those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountauins.These words spoken by my Lord is proof that the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel had not happened.

Proof of nothing. The term is meaningless UNLESS it happened before, unless there was some context to measure the term against...

The first Abomination, described in Maccabees and refered to in Daniel and by Jesus (celebrating Hannakuh), occured when the Syrian Greeks entered into the TEMPLE and performed sacrilege in the Temple, worshiping false gods. An utter abomination to the Jews.

The second Abomination, the one Jesus warned about, is the ROMANS entering into the TEMPLE to perform sacrilege and UTTERLY DESTROY it in 70 AD! Jesus Himself clues us into this seige when He speaks about "not one stone will be left standing", and refers to the army encircling Jerusalem soon.

The warning is to believers to head for the hills, GET OUT OF DODGE! Why? Because God was NOT going to save Jerusalem, as He did vs. the Assyrians, when he brought about a plague upon them camping out at the walls hundreds of years ago. The believer would GO TO JERUSALEM, because the mindset would be "God will save us here, have faith, the Roman army cannot prevail"!

Well, Jesus was telling them, "no, you must flee, since Rome will DESTROY Jerusalem" and there will be ANOTHER Abomination Desolation - the Temple will be destroyed.

UTTER Abomination. No more Temple... Worse than before.

It seems clear to me that you are more worried about future predictions than what actually has happened. It is quite obvious that the Abomination prediction was for the Christians of 70 AD. To Jews, the destruction of the Temple was the "end of the world". Clearly, Jesus is pointing to this event. Perhaps He also intends something more, but it is quite vague. What we DO know is that He IS warning the believers NOT to go to Jerusalem in 68 AD...

Shilohsfoal said:
Why havnt you paid attention to the word of God?
Why ?
Because someone told you these things have already taken place,thats why.

WHY haven't you paid attention to the Word of God as written in Maccabees? Have you even READ it? Such an important part of Jewish history that was at the front of Christ's mind, and you know nothing about???

I don't concern myself with such "future prophesies". People are always crying the end of the world is here. The Scriptures tell us to be awake, walk in the light, with the Lord. If God wants to end the world next week, why should I worry? Remain awake and stop worrying about guessing at vague prophesies, most of which were directed at the immediate reader of the first century...

Regards
 
jasoncran said:
lol, i am hebrew and my dad even talked about the maccabean revolution at times. the book of maccabees in reference to that event is considered accurate by archeologists.

Interesting, that such an event would be engrained on the minds of Jews for over 2000 years and past on to you. It goes to show the force of the 'Abomination Desolation', and of course, the pride in booting out a superior and better armed army in the Selecuids. Being a former military historian, I find Judas' campaigns and his defeat of the Syrians to be genius - I think as a Christian, we must say "divinely led".

btw, what's with the German machinegunner being a Hebrew??? ;)

Regards
 
johnny botwright said:
Could Jerusalem be the harlot, and the ten heads of the beast, be ten Arab nations?

No, I don't think so, though she is described as playing a harlot she is not the mother of them all. She is known as Aholibah she and her sister Aholah because of their ways have become the daughters of Mystery Babylon Mother of All Harlots. (Ezekiel 22)
 
Babylon-Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets,and of saints,and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Jerusalem-Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon earth,from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah son of Barachias,whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Jesus can not be wrong.
When trying to understand prophecy ,its best to compare scripture to scripture before jumping to wrong conclusions.
 
its true past present and future are often conected, we all know of types in the old testement that pointed to events in the new testement, some forfilled, some to be forfilled.
It is true Jerusalem is referred to as a sister, so we could think who is the mother?

Jerusalem is also described as a different Harlot, though, above other harlots.
as others received payment, but Jerusalem paid her lovers.

We see in Babylon, a king who exhalted him self made an image, and was brought down,

again there is alot about the destruction of Tyre, that could come right out of rev 17-18
the reason another king who exhalted himself. i think im right in saying this, there could be other reasons for both babylon and Tyre.

If we are right in thinking the anti christ will reign in Jerusalem, or establish an embassy there,
we see a temple, again some one exhalting himself. and an image of the beast.
that every one is made to worship, where or what the image is?

but if the anti christ reigns from Jerusalem, decieves the jews into thinking he is the one they have been waiting for, and the image of the beast is in Jerusalem, you have your babylon, tyre, senerio

in Deuteronomy 7-25 God makes it very clear, that images idols are an abomination to him.
there are many who think, since God gathered Jews back to Israel. God is in the mist of them, will demonstate he is Lord, and all that come agaisnt Israel will be defeated, Jerusalem will remain safe.
so there are two sides to this story. the future of Israel,
is there a clearer picture, we can see concerning, future events, from the scriptures, concerning Israel, Jerusalem, and events that are yet to unfold there, and if its not as many think,
The storm is coming, the sword is coming, then as Ezekiel we need to be watchmen, and warn,
that its not peace peace, but destruction, though not a complete one. johnny
 
francisdesales said:
jasoncran said:
lol, i am hebrew and my dad even talked about the maccabean revolution at times. the book of maccabees in reference to that event is considered accurate by archeologists.

Interesting, that such an event would be engrained on the minds of Jews for over 2000 years and past on to you. It goes to show the force of the 'Abomination Desolation', and of course, the pride in booting out a superior and better armed army in the Selecuids. Being a former military historian, I find Judas' campaigns and his defeat of the Syrians to be genius - I think as a Christian, we must say "divinely led".

btw, what's with the German machinegunner being a Hebrew??? ;)

Regards
oh the irony of that, i did a reeneactment yrs ago, as a favor(i helped) as a german soldier. das riech division. i told my dad of this, since that i thought he may disown me! he actually thought it was a good idea.i haror no hatred towards the germans even though they killed some of my family. i wanted to understand why the germans would fight for hitler. interesting enough from what the fellow reenactors(all american vets like seemed to potray the reasons as this ze americans are a threat to the motherland , kill them or die for the motherland. sounds familiar doesnt it.).from that i understood how some may fought.


glad we beat them. but i aslo understood the military genuis behind the mg42 and 34 and the other weapon system, the man i helped owns the guns that we used and have in the avatar. i fired blanks out of one.my dad also raised me on the histtory of ww2 ,and my granpa on his side was a vet of that war.
 
it amazed me that people hated the reenactors for giving the full story of the germans soldiers. they portrayed them as soldiers not as thugs. i was called a neonazi for my acting it out. then i told him to think about this when he says that the next time, i am a jew! he blushed then asked ? why? i told him to understand why a person would do that to us and what i could learn.. some of the german vets often thank the group(not when i did it) that does that as they portrayed them well. i have met one german ww2 vet and also a korean war vet. hmm interesting conversation that was!
 
johnny botwright said:
If we are right in thinking the anti christ will reign in Jerusalem, or establish an embassy there,
we see a temple, again some one exhalting himself. and an image of the beast.
that every one is made to worship, where or what the image is?

johnny

The jews worship Israel itself .That is what they have wonderd the world over in search of.
The beast with seven heads is already there.The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth.What they worship is those seven hills,thier own goverment and thier own identity.

When the king of the north sends his army there,then the second beast will be there.He is the second beast.The second beast is that which makes an image of the first beast for them to worship and he is the one who will give them the mark of the beast.

Rev 13;11-13
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth,and he had two horns like a lamb,and he spake as a dragon.
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,whose deadly wound was healed.
And he doeth great wonders,so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

This army from the king of the north makes fire come down from heaven in the sight of men.
This king of the north is the one who I said would be a friend to those of Judaism.
 
jasoncran said:
oh the irony of that, i did a reeneactment yrs ago, as a favor(i helped) as a german soldier. das riech division. i told my dad of this, since that i thought he may disown me! he actually thought it was a good idea.i haror no hatred towards the germans even though they killed some of my family. i wanted to understand why the germans would fight for hitler. interesting enough from what the fellow reenactors(all american vets like seemed to potray the reasons as this ze americans are a threat to the motherland , kill them or die for the motherland. sounds familiar doesnt it.).from that i understood how some may fought.

It's good you have learned to understand the other side's mentality, but it's almost like you'd have to go back to the 1800's to find out the reason for some of the ingrained hatred towards Jews from Germans. No doubt, there were Germans fighting for their country and can proudly say this. It is interesting that you "fought" for the Das Reich Division! It is ironic!

Most re-enactors I know are from either Revolutionary or Civil War era. I guess it's easier to see everything when men lined up in nice lines and columns...

jasoncran said:
glad we beat them. but i aslo understood the military genuis behind the mg42 and 34 and the other weapon system, the man i helped owns the guns that we used and have in the avatar. i fired blanks out of one.my dad also raised me on the histtory of ww2 ,and my granpa on his side was a vet of that war.

Yes, the German MG 42 was a wonderful weapon, and our own M60 is based on its design. Quite a distinctive sound, huh?!

Regards
 
jasoncran said:
it amazed me that people hated the reenactors for giving the full story of the germans soldiers. they portrayed them as soldiers not as thugs. i was called a neonazi for my acting it out. then i told him to think about this when he says that the next time, i am a jew! he blushed then asked ? why? i told him to understand why a person would do that to us and what i could learn.. some of the german vets often thank the group(not when i did it) that does that as they portrayed them well. i have met one german ww2 vet and also a korean war vet. hmm interesting conversation that was!

At the end of the day, we (soldiers) fight for the same reason - for our brothers in the foxholes. Most don't care about the politics at the strategic level. It comes down to making sure everyone gets home safely and looking out for each other. As a re-enactor, perhaps you sensed this? That's why soldiers are able to see across national lines and have such a respect for each other. We fought for very similar reasons, when you get down to the squad and platoon level - where you know each other intimately.

Regards
 
off topic you served, why i thought that i dont know.i was in afghanistan, and yes i do feel that way toward them and and the japenese as well.

hard for me to fathom that kinship with the muslim infidels who want wipe out the nation of israel and the u.s.

no disrespect towards muslims on this forum.
 
jasoncran said:
off topic you served, why i thought that i dont know.i was in afghanistan, and yes i do feel that way toward them and and the japenese as well.

hard for me to fathom that kinship with the muslim infidels who want wipe out the nation of israel and the u.s.

no disrespect towards muslims on this forum.

I served as a Marine during Beirut and Grenada. Showing my age? ;)

It's more difficult to see the "kinship" towards Muslims who want to wipe out infidels because THEY are not fighting for a nation or land, but an ideal found in the Koran. I would presume that they have a similar "band of brothers" mentality, but to include a religious background. I can only see this religious motivation as a defensive one, such as the Crusaders, though. Maybe that's just my Christian ideals seeping in, but to me, religion does not include wiping other religions off the map...

Regards
 
francisdesales said:
I served as a Marine during Beirut and Grenada. Showing my age? ;)

Regards

A bit from my notes.

Daniel11;7-8
But out of her roots shall one (Imad Fayez Mughiyah -Hezbollah)stand up in his estate,which shall come with an army,and shall enter into the fortress (US embassy and barracks ,Beirut 1983)of the king of the north,and shall deal against them,and shall prevail;
And shall also carry captives into Egypt (TWA flight 847-1985)thier gods,with thier prnces,and with thier precious vessels of silver and gold;and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
Imad Fayez Mughniyah died feb 12,2008
Ronald Reagon died june 5,2004
 
Shilohsfoal said:
francisdesales said:
I served as a Marine during Beirut and Grenada. Showing my age? ;)

Regards

A bit from my notes.

Daniel11;7-8
But out of her roots shall one (Imad Fayez Mughiyah -Hezbollah)stand up in his estate,which shall come with an army,and shall enter into the fortress (US embassy and barracks ,Beirut 1983)of the king of the north,and shall deal against them,and shall prevail;
And shall also carry captives into Egypt (TWA flight 847-1985)thier gods,with thier prnces,and with thier precious vessels of silver and gold;and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
Imad Fayez Mughniyah died feb 12,2008
Ronald Reagon died june 5,2004

While I appreciate your attempting to tie my meager service to something related to God's ultimate destiny of the end times, I am hardly convinced by this interpretation - the Marine barracks was blown up from the outside, not "entered into". Nor are we the "Kingdom of the North". Nor did the Muslims "carry anyone off into captivity" from the barracks...

I think people try too hard to read into these prophesies, in my personal opinion.

Regards
 
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