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Covid-19 in Australia

WIP said:
I don't like the phrase "we took it seriously." It implies that others don't care or take any precautions. I guess I'm not sure what your definition of "took it seriously" is.

It was taken seriously here in MN. Our governor invoked a stay at home order, businesses were locked down as I already shared, churches were locked down, schools were locked down, people have been wearing masks everywhere that I've been. Even drinking fountains in places of business are temporarily turned off, which I don't understand unless the virus can be found in the water supply but then, the whole city would be infected.

The governor's business lockdowns were imposed in March and lifted with restrictions the end of May. They were reimplemented in November and only recently lifted again with restrictions.

How was it taken more seriously in Australia? Have total lockdowns been in effect since March or did they reopen with restrictions?

People think that because the president didn't invoke a nation-wide order that is the problem. Did the EU or the UN invoke such orders over their respective member countries? No. Each country is responsible for its own citizens.

People forget that the US is composed of individual states and they are responsible for their own citizens. This is why our president delegated that responsibility to them. What's best for New York is not necessarily applicable to Wyoming for example. Population density plays a huge role in the spread of viruses and disease.

But, even in states like MN where we have imposed rather strong restrictions, the virus still spreads and it has done so with far greater reach than in Australia. Let's compare.

Australia
Population ~25,000,000
Total cases ~28,800
Total deaths ~900

Minnesota
Population ~5,600,000
Total cases ~460,000
Total deaths ~6,200

This is a huge difference. Australia has 5x the population but only about 1/15th the total cases. I wonder why?
Click to expand...
It may/may not be in part due to other factors aside from govt action.

There could be various social/cultural factors at play. Are the areas compared more/less densely populated in key areas, size of the average household in terms of family spreading to family in the same house, cultural differences in large family gatherings,etc.

Much of it may come in how the numbers are reported as well. For example,here weve seen falsely inflated numbers in multiple ways. Certain patients were assumed to have covid if hospitalized prior to test confirmation, with that number not being adjusted post testing. Covid positive patients who died while in care were at times tallied as a covid death even when the cause of death was not covid. More examples exists,but point made. The possibility exists of dishonest reporting or altered numbers for political or other purposes. Cities/towns that rely heavily on tourism or other out of town traffic may tweak the numbers to keep business coming in. You never know,these are things weve seen in the past with other issues.

So in the end it could be the sum of many factors.
 
Okay, so far based on what information has been shared in this thread, it didn’t sound like things were done much differently in Australia than here in MN, but after doing a little more digging I may have found some differences that could explain it at least in part.

To keep it a little more in perspective, I focused my comparison primarily on what we’ve been doing here in MN. The population in Australia is about 25M and in MN we have a population of a little less than 6M with about 2/3 of us living in the 7-county Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area. Hennepin county has our highest population density at about 9,000/sq.mi. Melbourne has the highest density in Australia at almost 8,000/sq.mi. so it is somewhat similar to our most dense county.

On March 17, our governor issued a lock down order for all non-essential businesses. The order was modified on May 31 to allow some businesses to reopen at lower capacity, mostly 50%.

On March 27, our governor issued a “stay at home” order for all residents of MN except for specific essential purposes. The order was lifted May 18 as new daily case counts had dropped considerably.

In November we began to see Covid cases increasing so our governor issued another lock down order like the first one. The order has only recently been amended to allow businesses to once again reopen at 50% capacity.

Here’s one thing that I learned about Australia’s response. I found this information on a Canadian news article as Canada is looking at Australia as a pattern to follow. While they did restrict international travel as we did in the US, some cities took things considerably farther. Melbourne, for example, did the following…
  • You cannot leave your home unless it’s for exercising, caregiving, working or buying essential supplies. If you do leave, you must stay within 5 km of home
  • Masks have to be worn outside (we do not require this but masks are required indoors)
  • Schools changed to remote learning (we did this but are now slowly allowing more in-person schooling)
  • Childcare centres are closed
  • You cannot have visitors or go to another person’s house unless it is for the purpose of giving or receiving care (stay at home order was similar)
  • You can meet one other person outdoors for a maximum of two hours
  • There is a curfew between 9 p.m. and 5 a.m. (previously 8 p.m. to 5 a.m.) The onset of the curfew was adjusted to one hour later as spring approaches in the southern hemisphere and daylight hours will begin getting longer. (we did have some curfews but I don't recall much about them)
  • There is a ban on weddings (stay at home order was similar and included funerals)
  • Restaurants and cafes will only be open for takeaway and delivery (same here since March)
  • General retail, gyms, hair salons and bars are closed (first lock down was the same. Second lock down did not include salons but limited them to 25% capacity. Still in effect.)
Here’s one that really caught my attention.
  • Residents in Melbourne are also not allowed to leave the city without a valid reason. The government said people who choose to cross the border into another region could be fined or jailed up to six months.
I suspect that this could have played a very important role in the control. Keeping people from traveling around keeps the virus from spreading. I do not know if this was a common practice in all of the major cities or not. I also do not know how well this was followed by the residents.

Our stay at home order and lock down orders were not fully enforced even though violators could be subject to fines or jail time. I heard of a couple cases where business' licenses were revoked because they violated the lock down but it was only a couple high profile situations so it was probably done more as a show of force than anything. For the most part to my knowledge the lock down orders were adhered to but certainly not without very vocal backlash.

After all this, I am still not sure I can say with any confidence why Australia's Covid situation is so much better than here. Doesn't seem to be any one thing that stands out.
 
WIP said:
Okay, so far based on what information has been shared in this thread, it didn’t sound like things were done much differently in Australia than here in MN, but after doing a little more digging I may have found some differences that could explain it at least in part.

To keep it a little more in perspective, I focused my comparison primarily on what we’ve been doing here in MN. The population in Australia is about 25M and in MN we have a population of a little less than 6M with about 2/3 of us living in the 7-county Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area. Hennepin county has our highest population density at about 9,000/sq.mi. Melbourne has the highest density in Australia at almost 8,000/sq.mi. so it is somewhat similar to our most dense county.

On March 17, our governor issued a lock down order for all non-essential businesses. The order was modified on May 31 to allow some businesses to reopen at lower capacity, mostly 50%.

On March 27, our governor issued a “stay at home” order for all residents of MN except for specific essential purposes. The order was lifted May 18 as new daily case counts had dropped considerably.

In November we began to see Covid cases increasing so our governor issued another lock down order like the first one. The order has only recently been amended to allow businesses to once again reopen at 50% capacity.

Here’s one thing that I learned about Australia’s response. I found this information on a Canadian news article as Canada is looking at Australia as a pattern to follow. While they did restrict international travel as we did in the US, some cities took things considerably farther. Melbourne, for example, did the following…
  • You cannot leave your home unless it’s for exercising, caregiving, working or buying essential supplies. If you do leave, you must stay within 5 km of home
  • Masks have to be worn outside (we do not require this but masks are required indoors)
  • Schools changed to remote learning (we did this but are now slowly allowing more in-person schooling)
  • Childcare centres are closed
  • You cannot have visitors or go to another person’s house unless it is for the purpose of giving or receiving care (stay at home order was similar)
  • You can meet one other person outdoors for a maximum of two hours
  • There is a curfew between 9 p.m. and 5 a.m. (previously 8 p.m. to 5 a.m.) The onset of the curfew was adjusted to one hour later as spring approaches in the southern hemisphere and daylight hours will begin getting longer. (we did have some curfews but I don't recall much about them)
  • There is a ban on weddings (stay at home order was similar and included funerals)
  • Restaurants and cafes will only be open for takeaway and delivery (same here since March)
  • General retail, gyms, hair salons and bars are closed (first lock down was the same. Second lock down did not include salons but limited them to 25% capacity. Still in effect.)
Here’s one that really caught my attention.
  • Residents in Melbourne are also not allowed to leave the city without a valid reason. The government said people who choose to cross the border into another region could be fined or jailed up to six months.
I suspect that this could have played a very important role in the control. Keeping people from traveling around keeps the virus from spreading. I do not know if this was a common practice in all of the major cities or not. I also do not know how well this was followed by the residents.

Our stay at home order and lock down orders were not fully enforced even though violators could be subject to fines or jail time. I heard of a couple cases where business' licenses were revoked because they violated the lock down but it was only a couple high profile situations so it was probably done more as a show of force than anything. For the most part to my knowledge the lock down orders were adhered to but certainly not without very vocal backlash.

After all this, I am still not sure I can say with any confidence why Australia's Covid situation is so much better than here. Doesn't seem to be any one thing that stands out.
Click to expand...

There are a couple of things that i beleive dont make any logical sense. For example can meet someone for no more than 2 hours?, what does that achieve?, does covid only infect someone after meeting with them longer than two hours?. And curfews, i mean does covid start working night shift at a specific time so everything must shut from tha time?.

I just want to know the reasons behind these rules if anyone knows.
 
Last edited:
kiwidan said:
There are a couple of things that i beleive dont make logocal sense. For example can meet someone for no more than 2 hours, what does that achieve, does covid only infect someone after meeting with someone longer than two hours?. And curfews, i mean does covid start working night shift at a specific time so everything must shut?.
Click to expand...
There are many things that are done that don't make much sense. The two you mentioned are a couple.
  • Wearing masks while outdoors. The risk of contracting the virus from someone while outdoors is really low because when you exhale your exhausted breath is dispersed very rapidly. Is it impossible to transmit it outdoors? No, of course not, but the risk is much lower than indoors where air is not moving or moving very little. It would not surprise me to learn that the risk is greater while indoors and wearing a mask than outdoors. Masks don't filter the virus and trap it in the material very much. They primarily prevent our exhausted air from traveling significant distances directly from our mouth and nose. The virus can still go through and around the mask and into the room where it can be suspended or aerosolized and picked up by others. This can be proved simply by taking a drag on a vape or cigarette, putting on a mask, and exhaling and you will see the smoke. The virus is many times smaller than the smoke so if the smoke gets through and/or around the mask, so too can the virus. The mask is better than not wearing it but it doesn't guarantee anything.
  • I don't know if this is still true but for a while in California churches were limited to outdoor services only and with a maximum of 12 people. First, being outdoors is the safest option. Second, why the 12 person limit? Suppose the church has a 1-acre lawn. How many people could be on that lawn and still maintain proper social distancing? One acre is 43,560 square feet. Just keeping it simple and figuring each person occupies a 12' x 12' area we can divide 43,560 by 144 and determine that a 1-acre lawn could easily fit 300 people at double the recommended social distancing.
  • In addition to the limits that were set on the churches with their outdoor services, local casinos were allowed to remain open at 50% capacity. That would be indoors where the risk is considerably higher than outdoors and they are not limited to 12 people.
  • How about piling people into an airplane for a few hours of travel but limiting a church services to 12 people outdoors?
  • Here's another one that was on the news. In Sherman Oaks, CA the owner of a restaurant was locked down including outdoor seating after she spent nearly $80K to meet the requirements, but a television production company was allowed to set up tents in the adjacent lot where their crews were seen dining.
 
humble soul said:
Best to wait until they drop to zero sir.
Click to expand...
So you have been under a stay at home order since March give or take? Is that for the entire country? Here it isn't an order but it is highly recommended so it is left up to us to do the right thing, I guess.
 
WIP said:
So you have been under a stay at home order since March give or take?
Click to expand...
Our state had zero cases by end of April. So lockdown stopped. We've been totally free until last week when one new case occurred. We had lockdown for this last week. Masks for the first time.
I think our leader aims for elimination instead of suppression.
 
humble soul said:
Our state had zero cases by end of April. So lockdown stopped. We've been totally free until last week when one new case occurred. We had lockdown for this last week. Masks for the first time.
I think our leader aims for elimination instead of suppression.
Click to expand...
Your state ended the lockdown when no cases were found but the other states continued? So it is handled on a state-by-state and/or city-by-city means then?

Are people in your country more or less in support of the strict lock downs and such or do a lot of people ignore the rules?
 
WIP said:
Your state ended the lockdown when no cases were found but the other states continued? So it is handled on a state-by-state and/or city-by-city means then?
Click to expand...
Mainly state. But some issues were federal. State leaders and the Prime Minister had meetings every week to encourage a team effort.
Victoria was our problem state. They had lockdown all winter. They suffered the most. If it wasn't for Victoria, our numbers would be much lower overall .
 
humble soul said:
Mainly state. But some issues were federal. State leaders and the Prime Minister had meetings every week to encourage a team effort.
Victoria was our problem state. They had lockdown all winter. They suffered the most. If it wasn't for Victoria, our numbers would be much lower overall .
Click to expand...
I think I figured it out. Are you ready? Aussies are just so humble. That's got to be it. :dancing
 
WIP said:
There are many things that are done that don't make much sense. The two you mentioned are a couple.
  • Wearing masks while outdoors. The risk of contracting the virus from someone while outdoors is really low because when you exhale your exhausted breath is dispersed very rapidly. Is it impossible to transmit it outdoors? No, of course not, but the risk is much lower than indoors where air is not moving or moving very little. It would not surprise me to learn that the risk is greater while indoors and wearing a mask than outdoors. Masks don't filter the virus and trap it in the material very much. They primarily prevent our exhausted air from traveling significant distances directly from our mouth and nose. The virus can still go through and around the mask and into the room where it can be suspended or aerosolized and picked up by others. This can be proved simply by taking a drag on a vape or cigarette, putting on a mask, and exhaling and you will see the smoke. The virus is many times smaller than the smoke so if the smoke gets through and/or around the mask, so too can the virus. The mask is better than not wearing it but it doesn't guarantee anything.
  • I don't know if this is still true but for a while in California churches were limited to outdoor services only and with a maximum of 12 people. First, being outdoors is the safest option. Second, why the 12 person limit? Suppose the church has a 1-acre lawn. How many people could be on that lawn and still maintain proper social distancing? One acre is 43,560 square feet. Just keeping it simple and figuring each person occupies a 12' x 12' area we can divide 43,560 by 144 and determine that a 1-acre lawn could easily fit 300 people at double the recommended social distancing.
  • In addition to the limits that were set on the churches with their outdoor services, local casinos were allowed to remain open at 50% capacity. That would be indoors where the risk is considerably higher than outdoors and they are not limited to 12 people.
  • How about piling people into an airplane for a few hours of travel but limiting a church services to 12 people outdoors?
  • Here's another one that was on the news. In Sherman Oaks, CA the owner of a restaurant was locked down including outdoor seating after she spent nearly $80K to meet the requirements, but a television production company was allowed to set up tents in the adjacent lot where their crews were seen dining.
Click to expand...
money ,it seems to have grease the politician .
 
WIP said:
Here it isn't an order but it is highly recommended so it is left up to us to do the right thing, I guess.
Click to expand...

Thad why i believe in. Recommend what the people should do as they have covered themselves, and then its up to every indoividual to be responsible for there own ealth and safety. Im not a fan of lockdowns.
 
When bushfires were raging here 12 months ago, we were the target of criticism from not only climate change activists but also some indigenous groups who said their advice for strategic burn offs beforehand was ignored.
We messed up. The east coast of Australia suffered enormously. My old high school friend lost his home.
We need to learn from this. Climate change is real. And burn offs, though unpopular need to to occur regularly. Politics too blinded people. We need to stay real. We will learn from our mistakes.
 
WIP said:
I don't like the phrase "we took it seriously." It implies that others don't care or take any precautions. I guess I'm not sure what your definition of "took it seriously" is.

It was taken seriously here in MN. Our governor invoked a stay at home order, businesses were locked down as I already shared, churches were locked down, schools were locked down, people have been wearing masks everywhere that I've been. Even drinking fountains in places of business are temporarily turned off, which I don't understand unless the virus can be found in the water supply but then, the whole city would be infected.

The governor's business lockdowns were imposed in March and lifted with restrictions the end of May. They were reimplemented in November and only recently lifted again with restrictions.

How was it taken more seriously in Australia? Have total lockdowns been in effect since March or did they reopen with restrictions?

People think that because the president didn't invoke a nation-wide order that is the problem. Did the EU or the UN invoke such orders over their respective member countries? No. Each country is responsible for its own citizens.

People forget that the US is composed of individual states and they are responsible for their own citizens. This is why our president delegated that responsibility to them. What's best for New York is not necessarily applicable to Wyoming for example. Population density plays a huge role in the spread of viruses and disease.

But, even in states like MN where we have imposed rather strong restrictions, the virus still spreads and it has done so with far greater reach than in Australia. Let's compare.

Australia
Population ~25,000,000
Total cases ~28,800
Total deaths ~900

Minnesota
Population ~5,600,000
Total cases ~460,000
Total deaths ~6,200

This is a huge difference. Australia has 5x the population but only about 1/15th the total cases. I wonder why?
Click to expand...
We have had off & on lockdowns, depending on severity of Covid balloon. The state of Victoria had severe clusters so Victorians could not leave the state. International airlines could not fly in.

All people wearing masks happened in some areas. I had to go supermarket shopping a couple weeks ago & was not allowed to enter without a mask. I can't go to regular Dr without the mask. Disinfectant is required for hand use everywhere.

I'm writing on ph from hospital bed. Kidney malfunction.

Oz
 
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