[__ Science __ ] Covid Vaccine — Texas Senate Discussion

[God Is My Judge]

I have two degrees in the field, and operated an allergy/immunology unit for the AF. Your credentials?


For the anti-vaxxers it is. Otherwise, it's the science that matters.

You are misled about that.

 

[God Is My Judge]

That's the problem. You've only follow the anti-vaxxer propaganda. I've spent a lot of time on both the anti-vaxxer stories, and the research literature. Because you don't read the literature, you're left with nothing but the propaganda.


Apparently, you aren't reading the social media or hearing far-right politicians. They are spreading all sorts of hoaxes. We've only debunked a few of them many. Remember, it's not censorship if a private news outlet doesn't want to carry your propaganda. You have the right to spread it, but you don't have the right to insist others do it for you.


How I got that is kinda interesting. I was on a board, and a rather aggressive atheist told me that I had no idea how "barbaric" Christianity is. I said, "just call me the barbarian, then." He wasn't amused, but it caught on. Turns out, barbarians were among the first followers of Jesus after the Resurrection.


Not any existing now. You see, mRNA only works one-way. It's produced by DNA, but can't change DNA in human cells. It doesn't even to into the nucleus. It's picked up by a ribosome that translates it into a protein, after which the mRNA comes apart and no longer functions.


Well, that should be interesting. Tell us about it. Since we're talking about mRNA we'll need to see how mRNA vaccines change the human genome. What do you have?


No. Radiation can induce mutations, but they all happen pretty much instantaneously. Perhaps you heard that radiation can increase the rate of mutations. Don't forget to show us how mRNA vaccines can alter DNA in humans.

You are misled about all this.

 

[God Is My Judge]

You've been misled about that. The vaccines used for COVID-19 have many of the same (fortunately mild or rare) reactions that other vaccines do. In the 70s, the flu shots used in military vaccinations had many of the same kinds of reports as we have with the COVID-19 vaccines.

You've been misled about that, too. There was, for example, a relatively high rate of Guillain-Barre cases associated with influenza vaccines. Still very rare, a dangerous consequence:
The background rate for GBS in the Unites States is about 80 to 160 cases of GBS each week, regardless of vaccination. The data on the association between GBS and seasonal flu vaccination are variable and inconsistent across flu seasons. If there is an increased risk of GBS following flu vaccination it is small, on the order of one to two additional GBS cases per million doses of flu vaccine administered.

Barbarian said:
Not disparaging your faith; just suggesting that maybe it might be a good idea to model yourself to the things Jesus is telling you. I think Matthew 22:37 would be a good place to start.

LOL! No agenda in here. Seems the Barbarian is chummy with certain moderators in here. Show partiality much? Passive aggression is how you must roll. "Not disparaging your faith;" yet is exactly what Barbarian does.
disparaging:
regard or represent as being of little worth:

Does so by telling one, you must do according to Barbarians interp. of scripture because no one but Barbarian has the correct understanding. Seems I ruffled some feathers. Must be used to spinless people to preach at.

I will use, "You have been misled" when addressing Barbarian. That does imply misled by some false spirit. I mean after all, this is all the matters of the spirit. But don't tell Barbarian anything directly, be passive aggressive!

Hmmm??? It would seem the good fight is not important when it comes to the severity of the loss of human lives. One cannot aggressively address the Culling and genetic alterations of Billions of people. Very telling.

 

[God Is My Judge]

But no one can name them. For reasons I think I understand. You can maintain the anti-vaxxer narrative if it suits you.


Antibodies do not "enhance the severity." That's an assumption by people who do not understand how antibodies work. In fact, the evolution of pathogens is toward lowered severity, because of antibodies. The ideal case for an infectious microbe is to infect, but not harm the host. There is a tendency for both host and pathogen to evolve toward lower virulence. Not always; sometimes, as in cholera, virulence can help infectivity, and sometimes something just causes an increase in virulence for no apparent reason. But generally, longer association causes lower virulence.

You have been misled about this.

 

[Barbarian]

There is a tendency for both host and pathogen to evolve toward lower virulence. Not always; sometimes, as in cholera, virulence can help infectivity, and sometimes something just causes an increase in virulence for no apparent reason. But generally, longer association causes lower virulence.

You have been misled about this.

Well, let's take a look at your assumption...

When a pathogen is new in a population, it tends to be quite virulent, and over time declines to an optimal level where it is not devastating to the host, but still manages to be infectious. Consider measles, for example. It was a relatively minor illness for Europeans, but wiped out entire cultures of native Americans. It is not now a major killer of people of native American descent. The 1918 strain of influenza was a devastating pathogen. It has since become much less virulent.

A pathogen that is too restrained will lose out in competition to a more aggressive strain that diverts more host resources to its own reproduction. However, the host, being the parasite's resource and habitat in a way, suffers from this higher virulence. This might induce faster host death, and act against the parasite's fitness by reducing probability to encounter another host (killing the host too fast to allow for transmission). Thus, there is a natural force providing pressure on the parasite to "self-limit" virulence. The idea is, then, that there exists an equilibrium point of virulence, where parasite's fitness is highest. Any movement on the virulence axis, towards higher or lower virulence, will result in lower fitness for the parasite, and thus will be selected against.

Optimal virulence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Barbarian]

No agenda in here. Seems the Barbarian is chummy with certain moderators in here. Show partiality much?

I'm not even sure I know who they are. And I frequently disagree with at least two who seem to have authority here. I do try to be respectful to all, even if I do disagree. I'm kinda clueless about power structures here. I guess I'm closest to jason, because of our shared interest in photography and historical buildings.

Passive aggression is how you must roll. "Not disparaging your faith;" yet is exactly what Barbarian does.
disparaging:
regard or represent as being of little worth:

I've never suggested that. Indeed, I've pointed out that only God knows for sure, and that I don't care to make such judgements. I have no way of judging your sincerity or faith in God, nor do I think God wants me to do that.

I will use, "You have been misled" when addressing Barbarian.

Which is fine. I think that's much, much better than accusations of dishonesty or attempts to demean one's faith. Thank you. It does not suggest demonic work, though. Most people are misled by other people, as in the case of anti-vaxxers.

One cannot aggressively address the Culling and genetic alterations of Billions of people. Very telling.

The first step, I suppose, would be to demonstrate that such a plan exists. Which so far, we haven't seen. As you know, the COVID-19 pathogen is a very poor choice for such an agent. And as you also learned, the vaccines cannot alter a genome in human cells.

 

[Barbarian]

Well, that should be interesting. Tell us about it. Since we're talking about mRNA we'll need to see how mRNA vaccines change the human genome. What do you have?

Radiation can induce mutations, but they all happen pretty much instantaneously. Perhaps you heard that radiation can increase the rate of mutations. Don't forget to show us how mRNA vaccines can alter DNA in humans.

You have been misled about this.

No one else can show it, either. For reasons that are obvious.

 

[God Is My Judge]

There is a tendency for both host and pathogen to evolve toward lower virulence. Not always; sometimes, as in cholera, virulence can help infectivity, and sometimes something just causes an increase in virulence for no apparent reason. But generally, longer association causes lower virulence.

Well, let's take a look at your assumption...

When a pathogen is new in a population, it tends to be quite virulent, and over time declines to an optimal level where it is not devastating to the host, but still manages to be infectious. Consider measles, for example. It was a relatively minor illness for Europeans, but wiped out entire cultures of native Americans. It is not now a major killer of people of native American descent. The 1918 strain of influenza was a devastating pathogen. It has since become much less virulent.

A pathogen that is too restrained will lose out in competition to a more aggressive strain that diverts more host resources to its own reproduction. However, the host, being the parasite's resource and habitat in a way, suffers from this higher virulence. This might induce faster host death, and act against the parasite's fitness by reducing probability to encounter another host (killing the host too fast to allow for transmission). Thus, there is a natural force providing pressure on the parasite to "self-limit" virulence. The idea is, then, that there exists an equilibrium point of virulence, where parasite's fitness is highest. Any movement on the virulence axis, towards higher or lower virulence, will result in lower fitness for the parasite, and thus will be selected against.

Optimal virulence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Clearly, you are mislead by MS propaganda. None of this explains why doctors of the same field are warning folks to not take the shots. Going on about a bunch of other stuff is not addressing the issue at hand. Big words and terms mean simply, you know big words and big terms. And you cannot claim yrs of research as yrs of success. The fact is, in the 20yr study of mRNA all the animal testing has shown to be a failure. They all died from immune disorders. Maybe that is a success in some circles? Could be the goal- dying from various immune disorders. Would be no direct, obvious link to Covid-19 shots. Covid-19 was a trojan horse to get the second part of Gain of Function rolling. It's amazing , someone with your "knowledge"of "mRNA" can't get doctor's opposing views from the other side.
Say what you want, coercion took place with the Covid-19 agenda. There was no full disclosure out of the gate. That is a fact. Many people, with threat of livelihood, hesitantly took, what was clearly experimental based on the rollout protocols alone. The rollout is indicative of a new medical application, not a long standing one. Animal testing doesn't count as you assert with your " years of success". Sure certain types will claim success if Gain of Function means a plethora of illnesses that cannot be directly related to the initial core approach and substance, that is a fact.
People with greater credentials than you are alarmed by the mRNA shots. There was no way to know, on a global scale, the implications of this new "vaccine" application. We will for sure know moving forward , not to mention those who have already been injured. I will not try to convince you. You clearly took a shot or two and will continue to as Fauci advises or you didn't and are aiding and abetting.

No alarm with that waning thing after the fact MSM and Fauci and other " professionals " never said that would be the case. Not to mention the new definition of vaccines it fostered. Funny thing tho, previous vaccines did come under the past heading. But know because of the waning issue and every four months shots suggested, it would seem the previous definition has been adjusted to fit a failure. With that change then people should be able, if they so choose, to reject the old ones too since they are now no longer properly defined. Thanks Covid-19! I will advocate for all non-vaxxers. I wouldn't even trust any vax moving forward. And would remind people that all subsidiaries are simply branches of Big Pharma.
You support and go along with the flip side science. I'll go with the heads side. I'll follow behind the tail side and watch how it all turns out. I think a 4yr study will show the results. That is from the time of roll out and first jab, keeping in mind the staggered rollout and intermittent placebos. Can't have people dying all at once, too much suspicion would come about. It is diabolically brilliant actually! The full outcome is not fully known, at least not known for those still standing, even Pfizer wants a 75yr period before it will fully publish its findings. Lol! What's 4 yrs right? I set the bar really low. I'm more confidant in what I already know than Pfizer. I will follow this science very closely.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Ya know what, forget everyone in here. Let's let the experts inform us.
I'm going to call this Ouchy Fauci Corner. There will be no confusion!

Key words :GROWING UNDERSTANDING, IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED (number unknown yet claim of Fully Vaccinated.)
Listen people these are the experts even Bill Gates with no medical license knows much more than all of us. without further ado I present the experts.......

Fake Experts Flip Flop Compilation (Gates, Fauci, Wen, Biden...)

tim truth wtf is that on the thumbnail

brandnewtube.com

 

[God Is My Judge]

Ya know what, forget everyone in here. Let's let the experts inform us.
I'm going to call this Ouchy Fauci Corner. There will be no confusion!

Key words :GROWING UNDERSTANDING, IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED (number unknown yet claim of Fully Vaccinated.)
Listen people these are the experts even Bill Gates with no medical license knows much more than all of us. without further ado I present the experts.......

Fake Experts Flip Flop Compilation (Gates, Fauci, Wen, Biden...)

tim truth wtf is that on the thumbnail

brandnewtube.com

Now, this is some MSM I can get with. I guess a lie eventually simply catches up with you and you have to ride the wave home. If people have been ill-informed enough, all the rest of the lie is a wash. Just confuse your victims
the science behind Covid-19 is still an ever-evolving thing. "It's not an exact science" but follow it because we said so. Injuries......... but you can't sue us

 

[Barbarian]

Clearly, you are mislead by MS propaganda. None of this explains why doctors of the same field are warning folks to not take the shots.

Speaking of propaganda, turns out that only a tiny minority of doctors are so advising people...

CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated.

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19

New data point toward high COVID-19 vaccine confidence among practicing physicians.

www.ama-assn.org

Which says that 97.8% of doctors think the vaccinations are a good idea. So it seems that the propaganda by the anti-vaxxers isn't having much affect on the people who actually understand the issues.

Big words and terms mean simply, you know big words and big terms.

And I know how things like mRNA work. So do all those doctors who took the vaccine. Learn from it.

The fact is, in the 20yr study of mRNA all the animal testing has shown to be a failure.

Sorry, that's not a supportable belief, given the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19. Would you like me to show you that, again?

Covid-19 was a trojan horse to get the second part of Gain of Function rolling.

Nope. You got that wrong, too. This was going on at Ft. Detrick back when I was an undergraduate.
Fort Detrick /ˈdiːtrɪk/ is a United States Army Futures Command installation located in Frederick, Maryland. Historically, Fort Detrick was the center of the U.S. biological weapons program from 1943 to 1969. Since the discontinuation of that program, it has hosted most elements of the United States biological defense program.

Fort Detrick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People with greater credentials than you are alarmed by the mRNA shots.

About 2.2% of American physicians. However, as you see, the vast majority of practicing physicians agree with me. So that's a telling fact.

There was no way to know, on a global scale, the implications of this new "vaccine" application.

The prediction was a large reduction in infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Turns out the doctors and immunologists got it exactly right. Should I show you that, again?

You support and go along with the flip side science. I'll go with the heads side.

I go with the vast majority of physicians and immunologists. You go along with a tiny minority who don't seem to have any evidence at all for their odd beliefs. So again...

I guess it's hard when one's conspiracy theories come unraveled by events. But there it is. Best to just find a way to deal with the reality. Bottom line? It works. Unvaccinated people are being infected, hospitalized, and dying at much higher rates than vaccinated people.

Facts matter. This past march, unvaccinated people were dying at a rate 17.5 times that of people with vaccinations and a booster.

How to Compare COVID Deaths for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People

The death rate among unvaccinated people is still far higher than that among the vaccinated even though vaccinated people now make up a significant proportion of deaths

www.scientificamerican.com

That's the reality. It's time to make an accommodation with it.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Joseph Goebbels quote: If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.

 

[God Is My Judge]

I go with the vast majority of physicians and immunologists. You go along with a tiny minority who don't seem to have any evidence at all for their odd beliefs. So again...

 

[God Is My Judge]

Speaking of propaganda, turns out that only a tiny minority of doctors are so advising people...

CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated.

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19

New data point toward high COVID-19 vaccine confidence among practicing physicians.

www.ama-assn.org

Which says that 97.8% of doctors think the vaccinations are a good idea. So it seems that the propaganda by the anti-vaxxers isn't having much affect on the people who actually understand the issues.


And I know how things like mRNA work. So do all those doctors who took the vaccine. Learn from it.

Sorry, that's not a supportable belief, given the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19. Would you like me to show you that, again?

Nope. You got that wrong, too. This was going on at Ft. Detrick back when I was an undergraduate.
Fort Detrick /ˈdiːtrɪk/ is a United States Army Futures Command installation located in Frederick, Maryland. Historically, Fort Detrick was the center of the U.S. biological weapons program from 1943 to 1969. Since the discontinuation of that program, it has hosted most elements of the United States biological defense program.

Fort Detrick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

About 2.2% of American physicians. However, as you see, the vast majority of practicing physicians agree with me. So that's a telling fact.

The prediction was a large reduction in infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Turns out the doctors and immunologists got it exactly right. Should I show you that, again?

I go with the vast majority of physicians and immunologists. You go along with a tiny minority who don't seem to have any evidence at all for their odd beliefs. So again...

I guess it's hard when one's conspiracy theories come unraveled by events. But there it is. Best to just find a way to deal with the reality. Bottom line? It works. Unvaccinated people are being infected, hospitalized, and dying at much higher rates than vaccinated people.

Facts matter. This past march, unvaccinated people were dying at a rate 17.5 times that of people with vaccinations and a booster.

How to Compare COVID Deaths for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People

The death rate among unvaccinated people is still far higher than that among the vaccinated even though vaccinated people now make up a significant proportion of deaths

www.scientificamerican.com

That's the reality. It's time to make an accommodation with it.

So, let me get this clear, because you served the government, and you did all you were told everyone else should? I'm a Christian soldier my government is heaven. Blind faith is for God alone. You do what you want.

 

[jasonc]

I take medical advise from one doctor who goes back when I was 14 over any one on this page or any page .

I'm 49 .he started medicine when I was 14.

As does my wife who takes plaquenel 400 mg twice a day

 

[God Is My Judge]

Ya know what, forget everyone in here. Let's let the experts inform us.
I'm going to call this Ouchy Fauci Corner. There will be no confusion!

Key words :GROWING UNDERSTANDING, IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED (number unknown yet claim of Fully Vaccinated.)
Listen people these are the experts even Bill Gates with no medical license knows much more than all of us. without further ado I present the experts.......

Fake Experts Flip Flop Compilation (Gates, Fauci, Wen, Biden...)

tim truth wtf is that on the thumbnail

brandnewtube.com

Medical tyranny the means by which to bring in Communism. Still in process, shock an awe, Grandstand, Gaslight, Virtue Signaling hallmarks of Communism. Distraction with war, food shortages, and illness, as your rights are taken away.

The control and management of global food supplies has been a corporate and political priority for decades, with US-based conglomerates leading the charge. As elite establishment political figure Henry Kissinger remarked in 1970, “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” Sound familar?
NEWS PROVIDED BY
Meridian 361 International Law Group, PLLC
Apr 01, 2015, 01:25 ET

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Rockefeller, Johns Hopkins Behind Horrific Human Syphilis Experiments, Allege Guatemalan Victims In Lawsuit​

Sound familiar? Tuskegee......

No malefices ever.

 

[God Is My Judge]

I take medical advise from one doctor who goes back when I was 14 over any one on this page or any page .

I'm 49 .he started medicine when I was 14.

As does my wife who takes plaquenel 400 mg twice a day

Ok?

 

[God Is My Judge]

I go with the vast majority of physicians and immunologists. You go along with a tiny minority who don't seem to have any evidence at all for their odd beliefs. So again...

Again, they want their paychecks just like everyone else. They speak outside the establishment talking points they lose their jobs. The Majority went along with Hitler and his doctors too. Come again........

 

[Barbarian]

Again, they want their paychecks just like everyone else.

So do the anti-vaxxers. And many of them depend on their hustles for remedies and donations. So I'd still go with the doctors and immunologists.

They speak outside the establishment talking points they lose their jobs.

Sounds like a testable assumption. Let's see what you have.

The Majority went along with Hitler and his doctors too.

The majority of German doctors refused to have anything to do with those quacks. Pretty much like the great majority of doctors won't have anything to do with Robert Malone.

 

[jasonc]

Ok?

Do you really think a doctor at 98 percent of approval of the vaccine is going to advise against for my spouse whose immune system is suppressed ?

Just go and sit at the monoclonal,also expiremental for 4 hours after injection because of reactions ?

They clone your own antibodies and use cancer cells (melanoma)mixed with your killer t cells pulled from bone marrow .
Which can be used as a prophalaxis.

And in some that doesn't last .

Few here besides barbarian have had the amount of vaccines I have

Anthrax ?
Yup got three of those

Hate those .there was a reaction to those and It caused me to doubt the covid vaccine but that story has been told. .